QOTW: Do you have a smart energy meter?

[Saracen]

There's no direct charge for a smart-meter, so you won't get a one-off or an £x/month charge. As I understand it, the £460 is simply an average, i.e. cost of program divided by number of consumers. Costs, like any other utility company overhead or fixed asset cost, will be recouped via the pricing structure. If so, heavy users will pay more than £460, light users less than £460, and none of us will notice because it's buried in your unit costs and/or standing charges.

[Saracen]

....

If i want to monitor my energy usage I would want the purchase the system myself and not have it tied to the energy provider.

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Exactly. And is what I did quite some years ago. Didn't cost anything remotely like £460 either.

And, every time I get an estimated bill, I check it and correct it if it's wrong.

[Phage]

Deleted

[SkywalkerLuke]

Yep I got one. However be warned, smart meters are tied to your supplier; so if you change supplier your meter will no longer work. Waste of time.. If only I knew this before I got one installed.

[weta]

I'm in no hurry for a smart meter and pleased that I turned down a 1st generation unit years ago.

[flufflogic]

Mine are getting fitted on the 17th - we moved house recently, the place is on prepay meters that British Gas were super reluctant to remove (because they know we'd switch if they did) so we switched to Boost after doing some research and it's part of the package. Being able to manage my energy usage via an app sounds pretty neat.

[EN1R0PY]

The original premise sounds good but the implementation is the issue.
being able to monitor daily usage and not getting estimated bills is good.
each energy company uses a different type so if you switched energy company they would need to install a new meter.
The data could be used to tailor the plan which on the surface sounds good but I suspect they are more likely to use it against you especially if use a lot of energy and want to haggle at the end of a contract. Hi
I do not want a smart meter for the same reason I wouldn't want a black box in my car as for the above reason of the potential to be used against you.
If i want to monitor my energy usage I would want the purchase the system myself and not have it tied to the energy provider.
I feel that we need a more standardized system and if possible opensource.
I like technology but feel that a smart meter causes more issues than it solves.

I work in R&D for a smart meter manufacturer as it happens. The system is open source, you wanna know how it all works just go and download the specs, its all there online! Everyone is just reading the daily mail click bait stories and nothing else. There is no way to pluck the encrypted data out of the air and pin it down to a specific home, there is no way to remotely change the meter reading, SMART METERS ARE NOT TRYING TO EAT YOUR BABIES!!! It juat new tech that will give customers a little more info and choice and more importantly give the national grid the ability to manage all the solar cells and electric cars and all the other high powered equipment that's rolling out, or does random blackouts sound fun to you tin foil hat people who apparently never use electronic communications technology but leave comments on a tech website!

[Saracen]

I work in R&D for a smart meter manufacturer as it happens. The system is open source, you wanna know how it all works just go and download the specs, its all there online! Everyone is just reading the daily mail click bait stories and nothing else. There is no way to pluck the encrypted data out of the air and pin it down to a specific home, there is no way to remotely change the meter reading, SMART METERS ARE NOT TRYING TO EAT YOUR BABIES!!! It juat new tech that will give customers a little more info and choice and more importantly give the national grid the ability to manage all the solar cells and electric cars and all the other high powered equipment that's rolling out, or does random blackouts sound fun to you tin foil hat people who apparently never use electronic communications technology but leave comments on a tech website!

Well, personally, I don't read the Mail, so don't get anything there.

I have no need of the "extra info", as I have all I need. It is beyond question that smart meters supply a greater degree of granularity of data, and I object to giving anybody data about me unless I see the need. And I don't.

Are you suggesting there have not been issues changing companies? Or are all the peopke that have had it happen lying, or hallucinating? Maybe there haven't bern a number of disastrous cockups during installation? Maybe there haven't been docuumentaries about various issues on, well, the BBC for a start, which is hardly the Mail.

And obviously I haven't had a series of letters getting increasingly pushy about installing one. I must have imagined the neat little pile of them I have. Except by fortuitous coincidence, yet another arrived this morning, with the company saying "we need" to replace the meter as the current one is old. Yep, 14 months old when they told me that the first time.

personally, I see no benefit worth having to me, and am NOT taking time off to be here, AGAIN, fir fitting it when if I change supplier, it needs to be done again.

My current meter, and billing schedule, suits me just fine and I see absolutely no need or indentive to change.

[Unique]

after reading this thread i asked the new supplier about meters and they said the current meters won't work with other suppliers but gen 2 should be available towards the end of the year and those would be able to do it, so i'm going to wait till they are available. similarly with nest i've been waiting on a version that controls temperature seperately by room. you can now get remote control TRV's so you can set temperature per room and the vales automatically open and close per room, rather than a set temperature in the whole home. so if you keep the living room at a low setting to avoid a chill overnight whilst the bedroom is warmer, and the hall and kitchen also low, and then have the bedroom cooler during the day when not in use

i think home automation of lights and heating is the future and we are just in the early steps of this - ie. siri/alexa not understanding commands all the time and various limitations based on legacy "tech" going back decades. even things like electric door locks so you can let delivery people or workmen in remotely, or friends in if you really wanted to if you weren't home - obviously options if you wanted to do it, and some people do leave keys for workmen to paint/repair things or babysitters, so instead of that it can be done differently, so they let you know when you are there, or you get an alert, you can check a security camera via your phone/pc and let them in, and even monitor them remotely via cameras. if people know they are being monitored they are less likely to do things they shouldn't

the ability to remotely turn off power if you wanted could be good too, if you could chose individual sockets. one day all plug sockets may connect via wifi for example, or a new take on wifi we don't yet have

[peterb]

Nest will work with zones, but the zones are defined by motorised valves, so it requires changes to plumbing.

You are right about remotely controlled radiator valves, which are available with some heating control systems, so Nest enables valves would be good.

[Saracen]

after reading this thread i asked the new supplier about meters and they said the current meters won't work with other suppliers but gen 2 should be available towards the end of the year and those would be able to do it, so i'm going to wait till they are available. similarly with nest i've been waiting on a version that controls temperature seperately by room. you can now get remote control TRV's so you can set temperature per room and the vales automatically open and close per room, rather than a set temperature in the whole home. so if you keep the living room at a low setting to avoid a chill overnight whilst the bedroom is warmer, and the hall and kitchen also low, and then have the bedroom cooler during the day when not in use

i think home automation of lights and heating is the future and we are just in the early steps of this - ie. siri/alexa not understanding commands all the time and various limitations based on legacy "tech" going back decades. even things like electric door locks so you can let delivery people or workmen in remotely, or friends in if you really wanted to if you weren't home - obviously options if you wanted to do it, and some people do leave keys for workmen to paint/repair things or babysitters, so instead of that it can be done differently, so they let you know when you are there, or you get an alert, you can check a security camera via your phone/pc and let them in, and even monitor them remotely via cameras. if people know they are being monitored they are less likely to do things they shouldn't

the ability to remotely turn off power if you wanted could be good too, if you could chose individual sockets. one day all plug sockets may connect via wifi for example, or a new take on wifi we don't yet have

Home automation the future?


Hmmm.

And that isn't a sarky "hmmm" but a genuine one.

Here's my perspective.

I 100% agree on controlling temperature by room, not just one centrsl thermometer. I also have no problem with radio switching. I've been doing both for years. The main thetmostat and HW thermostat link to my boiler by radio. Saves running wires. And each rad has it's own TRV.

But .... to go to full home automation begs several questions :-

1) Cost?
2) Benefits?
3) Privacy?

Dealing with 3 first, for me, any HA system that involves ANY data leakafe to Google, MS, etc is an absolute non-starter. Therefore, Alexa, Sirii, etc, are out. For others, they may not care but for me, that's a red-line, deal-killing utter no-go area.

But suppose I get a system where I'm content there's no chance of my home uploading such data, and any remote connection (like a phone app or remote PC call-in, is thoroughly encrtypted point-to-point, then ..... okay, maybe 3 is solveable, even for me. And when quantum computers render today's uncrackable encryption a trivial exercise, well, with everything from diplomatic comms to online banking wide open, my living room heating setting the winter before last isn't going to be a priority.

But 1) and 2) obviously interact.

What real benefit does being able to tweak a vslve temp setting by app give me? I mean, how often do you want to do that? Me, I change settings maybe twice a year, if that. And I generally turn the heating off round about this time of year, and on again when it gets cold enough, maybe Oct/Nov-ish.

So really, what does HA do for me? I means that once or twice a year, at most, it saves me 5 mins going round tweaking valve settings.

And what about 1)? To provide that saving, what's it worth to me? 50p? £1 even?


I've put this in pretty simple terms, but I question whether a lot of what HA offers (but not all) is actually worth the price of admission? Or are we at risk of thinking up things we can do, and doing them, rather than thinking up things we really need/want, and then coming up with a way to do it?

My bet is that much of HA's future depends on the mass market's answer to that question.


For me, even if we resolve 3), the question remains whether I really want to spend wgat a full HA system costs for the pretty nominal benefits it offers. So far, I'm not seeing it.

And as for the IoT fridge re-ordering my groceries and milk for me, hell no, not now, not ever.

HA for me if and only if there are real, significant, material advantages to be gained, not just a new tech to play with and get bored with.

IMHO, of course.

[Smudger]

I've been thinking about getting a Hive/Nest/the other one system in, but the costs probably don't weigh up at the moment. It's probably something I would get done at the same time as another big job, such as a new boiler or summat, but seeing as we only had a new boiler last winter, probably not something we're going to be looking at for quite some time.

As for IoT-enabled door locks? No way.

And in answer to the OP, no, I don't have a smart metre.

[Unique]

Home automation the future?


Hmmm.

And that isn't a sarky "hmmm" but a genuine one.

Here's my perspective.

I 100% agree on controlling temperature by room, not just one centrsl thermometer. I also have no problem with radio switching. I've been doing both for years. The main thetmostat and HW thermostat link to my boiler by radio. Saves running wires. And each rad has it's own TRV.

But .... to go to full home automation begs several questions :-

1) Cost?
2) Benefits?
3) Privacy?

Dealing with 3 first, for me, any HA system that involves ANY data leakafe to Google, MS, etc is an absolute non-starter. Therefore, Alexa, Sirii, etc, are out. For others, they may not care but for me, that's a red-line, deal-killing utter no-go area.

But suppose I get a system where I'm content there's no chance of my home uploading such data, and any remote connection (like a phone app or remote PC call-in, is thoroughly encrtypted point-to-point, then ..... okay, maybe 3 is solveable, even for me. And when quantum computers render today's uncrackable encryption a trivial exercise, well, with everything from diplomatic comms to online banking wide open, my living room heating setting the winter before last isn't going to be a priority.

But 1) and 2) obviously interact.

What real benefit does being able to tweak a vslve temp setting by app give me? I mean, how often do you want to do that? Me, I change settings maybe twice a year, if that. And I generally turn the heating off round about this time of year, and on again when it gets cold enough, maybe Oct/Nov-ish.

So really, what does HA do for me? I means that once or twice a year, at most, it saves me 5 mins going round tweaking valve settings.

And what about 1)? To provide that saving, what's it worth to me? 50p? £1 even?


I've put this in pretty simple terms, but I question whether a lot of what HA offers (but not all) is actually worth the price of admission? Or are we at risk of thinking up things we can do, and doing them, rather than thinking up things we really need/want, and then coming up with a way to do it?

My bet is that much of HA's future depends on the mass market's answer to that question.


For me, even if we resolve 3), the question remains whether I really want to spend wgat a full HA system costs for the pretty nominal benefits it offers. So far, I'm not seeing it.

And as for the IoT fridge re-ordering my groceries and milk for me, hell no, not now, not ever.

HA for me if and only if there are real, significant, material advantages to be gained, not just a new tech to play with and get bored with.

IMHO, of course.

there's over 65 million people in the uk and over 7.4 billion on the planet. over time things are replaced and upgraded, and that will happen dependent on demand from the majority

currently there are many things we have that some people don't like, yet still use, so not liking how something works doesn't stop people using it

instead of "using" an app to set settings, more automation, computer learning, and voice commands, and perhaps other things will replace the current "automated" way of using an app on a phone/tablet. so i can set the heating to what i want, ie. on at a reasonable temperature when i'm in the room, and lower when i'm not, and the system will know if i'm in the room or not and adjust automatically, so it can use less energy heating a room that's not in use, or even turn off or put things into standby if not in use. we already have automated lighting systems in some places. one day we may effectively have a fridge type lighting system where the lights are on when you are in the room and off when you aren't. but like a fridge you don't see the lights being off as sensors will take care off it, if you set it that way

some things are going to be the future whether people like them or not

[Unique]

Nest will work with zones, but the zones are defined by motorised valves, so it requires changes to plumbing.

You are right about remotely controlled radiator valves, which are available with some heating control systems, so Nest enables valves would be good.

i thought the motorised TRV's just needed to be installed? you just screw the old ones off and screw on the new ones. the electric bit on the boiler needs the nest thing attached, but no actual plumbing involved that needs a plumber (ie. stuff involving pipes and water). from what i see they have built in thermometers to measure each room and adjust accordingly

as i'm only using a room at a time, i just want the living room or bedroom to heat accordingly and have the bathroom on a reasonable setting, and the hallway on only to keep the chill out if it's winter. i never normally use the heating in the kitchen. so for me i'd just need a couple of the things, but the overall cost of the nest thing plus valves isn't so cheap

[peterb]

Yes, remotely operated TRVs would be ideal for you - some are replacement tops for the Drayton TRV series, others are replacement assemblies including the valve so there is a bit of plumbing involved.

Zoning with Nest would be less granular, you might have an upstairs zone and a downstairs zone each one having a motorised valve in the complete circuit, each one operated by a nest thermostat either of which would fire the boiler when there was a demand for heat. TRVs don’t act (on their own) on the boiler, but would with an integrated system (radiator calls for heat and signals back to a controller that fires the boiler)

It might be possible to integrate some TRVs with Nest (in the same way Alexa can control Nest) but it’s not something I have looked into.

Edit: Just had a look these https://workswith.nest.com/uk/compan...enie/energenie appear to work with Nest (or stand alone).

[Top_gun]

I've no need for a smart meter. I was smart enough to audit my energy usage without one. There's no reason why I can't get my electricity bill to around £10 per month.