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Thread: SSD price downtrend welcome news for PC upgraders

  1. #33
    Anthropomorphic Personification shaithis's Avatar
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    Re: SSD price downtrend welcome news for PC upgraders

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    If you are using an HDD for archive, it should be wrapped in the anti-static bag it came in, and in the original packaging which will soften the effects of shock - and of course you wont be keeping both backups in the same drawer!
    A redundant array of inexpensive drawers?
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  3. #34
    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: SSD price downtrend welcome news for PC upgraders

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    A redundant array of inexpensive drawers?
    A redundant array of ikea drawers?

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    Re: SSD price downtrend welcome news for PC upgraders

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    ...

    However with much higher bandwidth LANs, the concept has more merit, and high speed internet makes it possible for a single user to download software (such as Microsoft Office Click and Connect)

    ....
    In a company environment where the company has the right to determine and control the OS, and it's setup and configuration I agree.

    However, on a personal level, I want .... and demand .... a PC that truly is personal. One of the things that bothers me about Win10, and frankly MS in general, is what appears to be a trend towards users, meaning me and thee, as 'service users' .... no doubt for a fee.

    Phase 1 - get our data on their cloud.
    Phase 2 - shift users from "buying" software to renting it, either monthly or yearly.
    Phase 3 - shift standalone users to needing sn MS "account".
    Phase 4 - shift "my" PC to their control - i.e. automatic, mandatory updates.

    All these, in one form or another and to varying extents, are already in place.


    The end result isn't a PS, it's a MCST (Microsoft-Controlled Smart Terminal), where THEY determine exactly what boots when you power up, not you. Sure, they aren't downlioading it .... YET.

    But, in five years? Or 10?

    Will a PC be any more under your/my control than, say, a Virgin Tivo box is now? I doubt it.

    This, in significant part, is why I refuse to go W10. Oh, there's privacy things too, but a lot of it is I simply don't like (as in WILL NOT go along with) what appears to me to be their current trajectory. I want more than a smart MS terminal.

  6. #36
    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: SSD price downtrend welcome news for PC upgraders

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    In a company environment where the company has the right to determine and control the OS, and it's setup and configuration I agree.

    However, on a personal level, I want .... and demand .... a PC that truly is personal. One of the things that bothers me about Win10, and frankly MS in general, is what appears to be a trend towards users, meaning me and thee, as 'service users' .... no doubt for a fee.

    Phase 1 - get our data on their cloud.
    Phase 2 - shift users from "buying" software to renting it, either monthly or yearly.
    Phase 3 - shift standalone users to needing sn MS "account".
    Phase 4 - shift "my" PC to their control - i.e. automatic, mandatory updates.

    All these, in one form or another and to varying extents, are already in place.


    The end result isn't a PS, it's a MCST (Microsoft-Controlled Smart Terminal), where THEY determine exactly what boots when you power up, not you. Sure, they aren't downlioading it .... YET.

    But, in five years? Or 10?

    Will a PC be any more under your/my control than, say, a Virgin Tivo box is now? I doubt it.

    This, in significant part, is why I refuse to go W10. Oh, there's privacy things too, but a lot of it is I simply don't like (as in WILL NOT go along with) what appears to me to be their current trajectory. I want more than a smart MS terminal.
    Oh yes, I agree - apart from a legacy Win7 machine, I can't see me using Windows again. I installed a Win10 system for someone recently with MS office click and connect. I wrote about it here https://forums.hexus.net/software/39...uick-rant.html although it was more about the problems with Click and Connect.
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    Re: SSD price downtrend welcome news for PC upgraders

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    A redundant array of inexpensive drawers?
    Redundant Knickers?
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  9. #38
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    Re: SSD price downtrend welcome news for PC upgraders

    If low end machines did go to SSDs, killing the 250GB HDD market, how would that filter up to the >2TB market? Making a tiny cheap drive like those is a different proposition to squeezing an order of magnitude more data in there, I'd be surprised if they used the same factories.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    As a gamer and enthusiast, with an enthusiast level case, I find it quite exasperating that my choices are limited to cheap HDDs with air cooling, or to go liquid cooling but only if I ditch the HDD cages and stick a bunch of SSDs in...
    I need at least 2TB in addition to the boot drive, which means I have 3 SSD slots with which to ammass that much space. But as with all my non-gamer friends, most of that 2TB is music, movies (instructional videos, in my case), photos and personal documentation. I only have maybe a couple hundred GB of games installed.
    Cloud storage would be torture with 0.7Mbps internet, but even watching others' 74Mbps connections left me wondering what it would cost to get something cloudy as good/practical as a local HDD.
    5.25" to 3.5" bay converter? They start at £5 on scan, and if you're still using the Enthoo Luxe then you'll probably have one of the 4 spare

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    I remember looking at the dumb terminal concept back in around 1997 - the device booted and loaded the OS over the network. At the time we discounted it not only because of network speed to the desktop, but also overall bandwidth, several hundred employees logging on and downloading an OS at the same time would not be good! The advantages were the lower cost of the terminals and flexible licensing. We also thought that machines would be left hibernating so that they didn't download every day.

    However with much higher bandwidth LANs, the concept has more merit, and high speed internet makes it possible for a single user to download software (such as Microsoft Office Click and Connect)

    For me, the concern about SSDs is the failure mode. HDDs usually (not always) give some warning when they fail so they can beswapped out in good time. SSDs tend to failure catastrophically without warning.
    At that stage, wouldn't it be easier to just get thin clients and pipe the screen & mouse/keyboard inputs over the network?

  10. #39
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: SSD price downtrend welcome news for PC upgraders

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    If you are using an HDD for archive, it should be wrapped in the anti-static bag it came in, and in the original packaging which will soften the effects of shock - and of course you wont be keeping both backups in the same drawer!
    I find most hard drives these days come in bubble wrap. Another reason I don't like buying them

    ... and the two drives in my home server were of course bought from two different suppliers some weeks apart to try and avoid a batch manufacturing defect hitting both drives at the same time. Pays to be paranoid.

  11. #40
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    Re: SSD price downtrend welcome news for PC upgraders

    Quote Originally Posted by Xlucine View Post
    5.25" to 3.5" bay converter? They start at £5 on scan, and if you're still using the Enthoo Luxe then you'll probably have one of the 4 spare
    Nope - There's only three, as the top one is the cover flap for the front IO panel. But the other three are filled with other mods and bay devices already. I'm working on re-modding one mod to combine two so I can potentially use such a converter.
    Meanwhile someone has thrown an external drive enclosure at me, but now I have to rearrange half the flippin' room to try and free up a mains socket, because of course the darn thing is powered... and I didn't realise there's no eSATA on my board, either - I guess I ought to be buying Thunderbolt II cards or something!

    So yes, while HDDs are still awesome in so many ways, it seems manufacturers really want to punish you for having them...

  12. #41
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    Re: SSD price downtrend welcome news for PC upgraders

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Nope - There's only three, as the top one is the cover flap for the front IO panel. But the other three are filled with other mods and bay devices already. I'm working on re-modding one mod to combine two so I can potentially use such a converter.
    Meanwhile someone has thrown an external drive enclosure at me, but now I have to rearrange half the flippin' room to try and free up a mains socket, because of course the darn thing is powered... and I didn't realise there's no eSATA on my board, either - I guess I ought to be buying Thunderbolt II cards or something!

    So yes, while HDDs are still awesome in so many ways, it seems manufacturers really want to punish you for having them...
    At the risk of saying something offensively obvious, but sometimes we all miss the really simple answers so I'm going for it...

    Why not use a couple of cheap 1TB 2.5in HHDs? Or if you are OK with buying Seagate, they do laptop drives up to 5TB. I presume by SSD slots you really mean 2.5in laptop drive slots which SATA SSDs just happen to fit?

    Unless you already own the 3.5in drives.

  13. #42
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    Re: SSD price downtrend welcome news for PC upgraders

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    At the risk of saying something offensively obvious
    That sounds like it could be a laugh...!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Why not use a couple of cheap 1TB 2.5in HHDs? Or if you are OK with buying Seagate, they do laptop drives up to 5TB. I presume by SSD slots you really mean 2.5in laptop drive slots which SATA SSDs just happen to fit?
    Well I do already have 2TB 3.5", which is why it's a problem.

    But I did enquire about using some 2.5" ones and the general consensus was that it's a BAAAAAAAAAAAAD idea... mainly because my SSD sleds are side-on, up the back of the motherboard tray and round the front of the case, and apparently turning HDDs sideways can sometimes wreck the platters.... but also, they won't get any airflow in the SSD sleds, so might burn out first anyway....

  14. #43
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    Re: SSD price downtrend welcome news for PC upgraders

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    and apparently turning HDDs sideways can sometimes wreck the platters....
    Only if they are spinning while you turn them

    A HDD is allowed to be horizontal or vertical. Many storage servers run them vertical, all day every day. If you choose a model of drive you should be able to find a data sheet that gives mounting orientations allowed for that drive. Just don't go for a rakish angle and it should be fine. This thing is designed for 2.5inch SAS drives, but SATA is no different:



    Airflow is another thing though. An HDD can actually be most reliable when nicely warm, like 40 degrees C, but I've seen them fail above 60.

  15. #44
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    Re: SSD price downtrend welcome news for PC upgraders

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Only if they are spinning while you turn them
    And that's when the argument started, officer.... !!

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Airflow is another thing though. An HDD can actually be most reliable when nicely warm, like 40 degrees C, but I've seen them fail above 60.
    I'd have to run some tests, really. Plug some into the sleds and see.
    Guess I'll be raiding (pun intended, although I may try that, too) some drives off a friend, this weekend...!

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    Re: SSD price downtrend welcome news for PC upgraders

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    .... Pays to be paranoid.
    Welcome to the club, brother.

    Can I interest you in some of my custom tinfoil hat designs?

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