LinkBack URL
About LinkBacksI'm waiting for a zoom lens with enough magnification to really capture the photo.
I'm waiting for a zoom lens with enough magnification to really capture the photo.
I think it's a bit disingenuous to just say the 'make cheap phones' - they arguably make some of the best flagships on the market and their market share reflects it. I get the impression that people who have a lot of criticism for Huawei phones, generally haven't owned one. I have, and it's miles better than phones I've had made by LG, Samsung, Motorola. The skin is maybe not to everyone's taste though I quite like the minimalist nature of it, and it's easy to replace it with another launcher if needs be. The hardware, battery life and firmware are all excellent and I don't feel like a beta tester, which I did with my Nexus 4.Originally Posted by Hoonigan
The 'looking at your naughty selfies' is about as baseless as the nebulous 'national security' claims that have led to all of this nonsense. In addition, why would the be interested in such things, and isn't it US companies which have made the news repeatedly for privacy violations recently?
Ditto in response to the 'they just copy stuff' nonsense, but was typing on a phone earlier and DanceswithUnix answered that.
Last edited by watercooled; 21-05-2019 at 05:31 PM.
Enter choogle. who needs google.
The US is basically starting to do back what China has been doing to the international business community for decades. Blocking or crippling businesses from operating or competing within China, but in reverse. China doesn't even hide it, they've done it openly for years as law/policy, but because nobody has said anything they think it's their right.
Youtube, Wikipedia, Facebook, etc.. All blocked, same as big global brands being unknown in China.. They claim they are protecting themselves from the evil world. In reality they see what's successful, what works, copy it, slap their own name on a reverse engineered or stolen intellectual property and pass it off as their own to reap the rewards. Here's where the US seems to be drawing a line with Huawei, because as per their laws any business that operates in China must comply with the Chinese government demands. The US now sees Huawei as gaining access to critical parts of the west's networks and also this trade war seems to be about taking away that perk China seems to have.
China is not a democracy, it's a state that rules the people and the people at the top are basically like mafia families who can make you disappear any moment.
The difference being this is a very short-sighted, naive move by a government who must not understand the repercussions of what they're trying to do. This harms the US and other countries at least as much as it hurts China. And the damage is done (to the US), irreversibly I'd say - the US government have single-handedly shot themselves in the foot and proved they cannot be trusted to not throw their weight around when it comes to international competition and commercial matters. Any sensible international governments and companies will be taking a good, hard look at how they do business and how much they are vulnerable to that risk, and aiming to not have a single point of failure in the future. It's a card that can only really be played once.
Similarly, China throwing their weight around WRT resources like rare Earth materials has AFAIK had some impact on other mines around the world being opened to reduce the risk of relying on a single source. Which overall is probably positive thing in the long run for reasons besides just politics.
Again though, you throw out the claim about China just ripping off/stealing technology. Seems a bit of a difficult argument to make against one of the companies furthest ahead with development of 5G technologies, no? And lets not pretend ripping off ideas is in any way unique to Chinese companies.
WRT 'gaining access to critical parts of the West's networks' - isn't that for countries to decide for themselves? Ignoring for a second the as-yet completely unproven claims of security issues of Huawei equipment despite increased scrutiny vs other companies, their equipment is often not even *used* in critical infrastructure, and if that was the real concern, a US ban on core networking or even all 5G equipment being *installed* by US companies would have been the logical, pragmatic response.
Last edited by watercooled; 23-05-2019 at 05:39 PM.
Uh, China can fix their own problems by following the rules of the WTO etc which they've been breaking constantly since invited in (they steal from EVERYONE, force IP transfer, etc). Trump is doing what every president before him was too weak to do. Force others to play by the rules, or you will be punished
What china does is an act of war as far as IP theft is concerned and if left unchecked for another decade, there will be no USA (and no, that isn't good for brits or anyone else)...LOL. Commence bombing until they have no military at all. Don't stop until they have nothing that flies or floats. Pay nothing when done. They've stolen 5T+ in 3 decades, game over. Any investments proven FROM chinese state owned money in USA, just take it. Call it a day and let the chips fall where they may. Just cut them off. No, I don't care if my beer can goes up from 10c to 11. Bankrupt them too.
It is comic how dumb some of these comments are. If you're backing China vs. USA, you are stupid. Jeez, how many bad products do they have to sell to make you realize they are trying to kill you are take you over...LOL. Sheetrock, House panels, kid toys, pills, etc etc.
You want to sell your qcom modem in china? Transfer your IP so we can start a business tomorrow and compete directly with you with your own tech until you bleed to death and we are the only ones left selling said tech. It is not rocket science, just unbelievable how dumb CEO's are to take this offer, not realizing the end game is always DEATH of your business. Again, commence bombing, and do it until they give up 5T worth of stuff or cashIf you wait 10yrs you might not be able to win it. Then again, attempting to bankrupt them is probably pretty easy currently with enough pressure from POTUS, but sure would be quicker using tech today they haven't mass produced quite yet (think F35 etc, we would take their entire airforce down in a day...LOL). In another 10yrs, they'll probably have as many f35 type fighters as us and that totally changes the air war (which wins everything). Swat a gnat today or face a bear in a decade. Your choice, take the bank route or military, but one or the other is required or the world changes in 10-20yr for real.
Not an act of war to you? This is state sponsored IP theft, and as OP said, they don't even hide what they do today. They actually believe this is OK behavior in their govt. That isn't good for any of us. Can you imagine if you just spent a Billion on R&D and china just nicked it, and will be producing it months after you start your launch product? That is not good correct?
How do you like China owning 51% state in ARM-China? LOL. Anyone defending this practice is dumb.
https://hexus.net/business/news/components/130835-arm-staff-told-must-cut-ties-huawei/
You guys read your own news right?...LOL.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/may/16/huawei-poses-security-threat-to-uk-says-former-mi6-chief
Trumps an idiot, but MI6 agrees with him...LOL. That idiot has every race/gender in usa at all time unemployment lows
China owns huawei, as no business in China is left untouched by govt. Why the heck do you think they make you 49% owner of your own business? ROFL. A retard should get this and that might be an insult to many of them
I've only been the victim of corporate IP theft once, and that was by an American company.
What a massive, frothing, strawman rant!
From the parts I can be bothered to read between the childish personal insults of anyone who does or may in the future disagree with you (lol) I see you're putting words in peoples' mouth or basically arguing with yourself.
First, the age-old *wah China is copying wah* argument. I don't recall anyone denying that things have been copied by Chinese companies, or China's somewhat lax attitude to intellectual property theft. But it's a bit of a ridiculous argument to bring up on *this* thread when a) it has nothing to do with things being stolen and b) how are Huawei as a company so far ahead with 5G infrastructure equipment if they are simply 'copying stuff'. As others have said, China's economy is investing huge amounts of money and effort into engineering talent.
It's also a bit silly when people complain about Chinese-made products in general being poorly made. China as a country is capable of producing things very cheaply or to a very high standard, just it's a bit silly to criticise the very cheap stuff for not also being great quality. Why are many products made in China rather than being made e.g. in USA? That's right - the USA-based company wants to save money vs domestic manufacturing! So whose fault is it for being cheaply made?
How about you come back with a slightly less silly post, with some real points of on-topic debate rather than ranting about... something... way off-topic?
BTW I really struggle to consider someone who denies climate change as a genius. Just sayin'For reference though, it's possible for someone not considered an idiot to make bad decisions - the two are mutually exclusive. I've stated no position on the former but have on the latter.
Edit: It's also a little difficult for a country to claim the moral high-ground WRT state-sponsored industrial espionage and mass surveillance when it's allegedly guilty of those very things.
Also, this isn't (or shouldn't be) simply a case of backing USA or China, it's an objective discussion about a single decision made with questionable motives. It's also more than a little naive of you to think a country could simply sever ties (as if that's a straightforward thing to do) with another and get away with simply paying 1c more for beer cans (assuming that's what you actually mean - it's a little difficult to follow along TBH). Or to think the USA could single-handedly bankrupt China. Or to think that a conventional war between nuclear-armed countries would be anything less than utterly catastrophic for the world. *That* is idiotic, if it's indeed what you're suggesting.
NVM I just keep seeing more nonsense the more I try to decipher that post. I think I'll stop now!
Last edited by watercooled; 26-05-2019 at 10:04 PM.
Disturbedguy (29-05-2019)
I have skipped all but the last post and only skimmed it.
I was looking for a new phone after loosing mine recently and I did look at a huawei y6 2019 in the o2 store. Really good screen, good value phone, not great bluetooth support nevertheless a headphone port. The amount of DDR included some say it's a little low I think it should be fine (for non gaming use I would assume) for a few years.
It will take Huawei's people quite a number of months to refactor their OS to free Android's codebase - so updates might be a bad idea in the medium term. We shall see what their decision is on this. The phone is currently available in the UK for example (contract free) from Vodafone for £89 (mandatory £20 topup - I am on EE and I haven't tried Voda locally for 4G [5G is starting to deploy give it 2-4 years]) and they have a form to request a free network unlock. There are other retailers carrying this phone. The higher end version I would not truly pay the premium for personally. The Y6 has a high resolution screen already.
In the end I got another Redmi 6 which has dual sim and micro SD ports and works very well (came with a case too 2nd hand used for 2-3 months). £71.
Last edited by Millennium; 27-05-2019 at 10:17 PM.
hexus trust : n(baby):n(lover):n(sky)|>P(Name)>>nopes
Be Careful on the Internet! I ran and tackled a drive by mining attack today. It's not designed to do anything than provide fake texts (say!)
Understandable!!
Yeah the situation is a real shame, especially given how good many of their phones are. And not least because they offer some solid competition to Qualcomm's near-monopoly in mobile SoCs - a position they're frequently found guilty of abusing.
Having tried Samsung's more mid-range phones a few years back (so maybe the situation is different now), they always seemed to be overpriced and almost like they were deliberately made to seem cheap, as though they only existed to upsell to the higher-end stuff. Even Huawei's budget phones feel like they've been carefully made without glaring omissions. Even visually, they don't look all that different to their flagship counterparts either.
Xiaomi aren't as widely available in the UK yet but are one to watch if you're in the market for that sort of mid-range phone.
"no?" lmao, no, no it's not. You think we're naive to actually believe that? It's like someone stealing decades of research in building a ship, then advancing that ship to the next generation that everyone knows is the next steps in upgrades, but then completely skipping the years they would have been behind in the data if they did not outright copy.
You seem to be comparing out right theft to ripping off ideas.. It's not the same. Apple ripping off it's shape designs, Samsung then also copying Apple's successful shape design, those are ripping off ideas. Chinese companies going in and stealing research or outright duplicating products is the part that you can't pretend is normal.
How can you make the argument that Huawei is one of the furthest ahead with 5G infrastructure if they're simply stealing ideas? Even if they're starting from an unfair advantage through stealing prior IP as you claim, the argument still makes little sense. You cannot steal something which doesn't actually exist. Unless of course Huawei have invented a time machine and are stealing competitors' IP from the future?
I'm really not. And my point stands. If it makes you feel better, replace the word 'ideas' with 'technology' in the part you quoted. Admittedly, maybe not the best choice of word in a hastily-written response to a massive rant. Though I thought most would get what I mean given the context...
If 5G was easy for being the next obvious upgrade, then Intel would have been capable of producing a product rather than photoshopping chips to pretend they exist and then throwing the towel in.
I simply did not make that argument. Did you even read my post? And yes it did exist.. In 2008 companies were investing in R&D on 5G, where was Huawei with 5G at the time? I suggest you re-read my above post and word for word would respond in same to what you've just said, so I'm not going to bother any longer, seems like an argument now.
You're both painting some warped picture that Huawei revealed to the world 5G. Intel is actually a great example with their 7nm chips, or are you going to tell me that they had no idea about 7nm was the next step? Intel rather than advancing to 7nm decided it's in their interests more to just keep selling and making minor improvements rather than transitioning to the next node. I bet they regret this choice and their change in business models is being evaluated.
2G, 3G, 4G, now 5G.. Do you see a pattern in generations and how development started on 5G long before Huawei came into the picture. After all 5G was not some kind of unknown, some years ago it was mostly about developing working concepts of next generation advancements, also now days the technological world kind of shows to developers what's next. Even Huawei rep said it in one interview and it makes perfect sense. You've leveled the playing field, and lets be frank, skipped decades in effort to catching up, or building something unique of your own. The profits and resources were put in to actually sniffing around on research and development in 5G and then carrying it on yourself to come at where they are now.
I think that Huawei will still have access to stock Android programs via Google's generic Android OS offerings. They will need time to standardise to them (and then may loose some staff perhaps).
There are some deals popping up for P9s on ebay recently (not more than 1 2 in the UK though!)
hexus trust : n(baby):n(lover):n(sky)|>P(Name)>>nopes
Be Careful on the Internet! I ran and tackled a drive by mining attack today. It's not designed to do anything than provide fake texts (say!)
Yes that is a good example, but not for the reasons you seem to think. Intel released a roadmap of their 10nm and 7nm deployment and even went as far as designing the next generation 10nm chips and started converting 14nm fabs to 10nm. They knew what they wanted in that technology and when they wanted it, but they failed to get it to work and the whole thing came crashing down. We hope they will recover with a delayed 7nm roll out, but at this point you can't trust anything they say.Intel rather than advancing to 7nm decided it's in their interests more to just keep selling and making minor improvements rather than transitioning to the next node. I bet they regret this choice and their change in business models is being evaluated.
So no, it isn't about simply being able to count (or in the case of silicon process nodes, divide by the square root of two) as there is some real and difficult engineering underneath those numbers. That requires not copying, but understanding and you don't get that from blindly copying someone else's work.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote