AMD revives free boot kit offer for struggling Ryzen 3000 owners

[DanceswithUnix]

Could literally do that with an ATmega328P which cost buttons!

I was thinking that, though multiplexing the USB and flash chip lines might not be trivial.

Ironically it does become another part of the motherboard that requires flashing, and so could end up somehow out of date

Not quite buttons though, I think the ATMega is about a quid in bulk then it has to be placed, programmed and tested. I think you would be lucky to get that for less than £2 added to retail mobo cost unless you are already using the a controller for some other function and can roll up more functionality into the one part. Fine for a high end motherboard, but on a £70 uATX board it starts looking significant.

[Tabbykatze]

I was thinking that, though multiplexing the USB and flash chip lines might not be trivial.

Ironically it does become another part of the motherboard that requires flashing, and so could end up somehow out of date

Not quite buttons though, I think the ATMega is about a quid in bulk then it has to be placed, programmed and tested. I think you would be lucky to get that for less than £2 added to retail mobo cost unless you are already using the a controller for some other function and can roll up more functionality into the one part. Fine for a high end motherboard, but on a £70 uATX board it starts looking significant.

Dagnabbit, Unix, why can't you let us have nice things!

Tbh, you could have perform its function post power pre-POST (is USB there? Yes, is BIOS there and compatible? Yes, flash BIOS. And is USB there? No, continue boot process). Then you would just have it that once another subsystem comes online it cuts power to the microcontroller via PNP transistor or other method. It can be as smart or as complex as you make it.

ATMega328p might be a bit overkill but could work.

[DanceswithUnix]

Dagnabbit, Unix, why can't you let us have nice things!

Tbh, you could have perform its function post power pre-POST (is USB there? Yes, is BIOS there and compatible? Yes, flash BIOS. And is USB there? No, continue boot process). Then you would just have it that once another subsystem comes online it cuts power to the microcontroller via PNP transistor or other method. It can be as smart or as complex as you make it.

ATMega328p might be a bit overkill but could work.

I'm an engineer, I've given people lots of nice things

It could be noted that with a Ryzen 3000 if it could pin its 32MB of L3 cache as scratchpad RAM then a BIOS could do lot without needing access to DRAM at all. But that's the sort of thing microcontrollers can do, not desktop chips. A modern UEFI bios seems to be a thing of great bloat, and if you have an APU then you need somewhere to put the video ram to interact with the BIOS menus as well.

I did have this fun with the B350 motherboard at work trying to get it to work with a Ryzen 2600. We ended up with a cheap A6 APU in the end, the same route as the AMD boot kit of the time but with less paperwork and guaranteed next day delivery. Still got the chip kicking around somewhere. ISTR there was an emergency BIOS flash mode in that board where you put a file of a certain name on a USB stick in a certain port, but even in that mode where no video or keyboard should be required it didn't work.

I think the problem is that as things get more integrated, features like this end up needing to be integrated as well. A lights out management controller included on every board is probably some way off though if it could ever happen.

[watercooled]

I built the wife a new PC last year, using an R5 2600 and discovered it would not boot, not even to the BIOS. I checked the CPU support list for the motherboard, ordered another CPU supported by a very early BIOS from Amazon. After flashing the problem was solved and I sent the extra CPU back for a full refund.

Some could argue that's abusing the return system.

[adidan]

Don't MSI boards allow you to flash without a cpu installed?

[watercooled]

Some do yes, but I've read a couple of issues with getting some MSI boards to POST with a 3000 series CPU despite this. https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=321288.0

Disappointing given MSI were seemingly the most ready for release with that very feature!

[adidan]

Some do yes, but I've read a couple of issues with getting some MSI boards to POST with a 3000 series CPU despite this. https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=321288.0

Disappointing given MSI were seemingly the most ready for release with that very feature!

Ah ha. Ideally it wont be long before x4/b4 boards start being shipped with the latest bios.

[Tabbykatze]

Some could argue that's abusing the return system.

That is abusing the returns system and there are words to describe the people whom do it that aren't very nice!

[DanceswithUnix]

That is abusing the returns system and there are words to describe the people whom do it that aren't very nice!

Indeed, ebay the used part would be the honest route.

[persimmon]

I cant imagine e-tailers getting every board they ahve in stock, checking which BIOS is fitted ?(open install note repack) and then flashiong the ones necesssary .. It would be a Knightmare. PLus lots of skinflints would claim the boards are now "pre-owned". Many probably dont even have the boards on hand just a note on a shipping docket somewhere. Athlon 200GE is a far better CPU than last time (A4 -XXX)

[persimmon]

Actually the r200ge is quite new .. its posssible some 300 series couldnt boot even with that !

[adidan]

I cant imagine e-tailers getting every board they ahve in stock, checking which BIOS is fitted ?(open install note repack) and then flashiong the ones necesssary .. It would be a Knightmare. PLus lots of skinflints would claim the boards are now "pre-owned". Many probably dont even have the boards on hand just a note on a shipping docket somewhere. Athlon 200GE is a far better CPU than last time (A4 -XXX)

Yeah i've no idea how it works actually.

I did notice some etailers had b450/x470 boards go to 'pre-order' due in a day or two and was wondering if they send new boards back and get updated boards sent packaged from the manufacturer?

No idea, like I say.

[Tabbykatze]

Indeed, ebay the used part would be the honest route.

That would always be the best way but people are lazy and the right to return is so open for abuse, i hate it with a passion.

I cant imagine e-tailers getting every board they ahve in stock, checking which BIOS is fitted ?(open install note repack) and then flashiong the ones necesssary .. It would be a Knightmare. PLus lots of skinflints would claim the boards are now "pre-owned". Many probably dont even have the boards on hand just a note on a shipping docket somewhere. Athlon 200GE is a far better CPU than last time (A4 -XXX)

It's why it should only be offered as an at purchase request.

[adidan]

Had a quick look.

CCLOnline usually charge 9.99 for a bios flash but will flash it for free before shipping at the moment if you by it with a B4/X4 with a 3000 series CPU. At least that solves the issue for those who need to buy both.

[kalniel]

POSTing involves working RAM, and working RAM involves understanding the memory controller, which requires an up to date BIOS as they change a lot.

Flashing with no CPU at all "only" requires a embedded controller that can hijack one of the USB ports and the flash chip with enough intelligence to understand how to program the flash chip, how to enumerate and drive USB interfaces and memory sticks and how to understand fat32 to read the file. Easy

Edit: I did use to think that chipsets should have something like a Jaguar core embedded in them so the motherboard could always work. That would have been easier in the days when the chipset drove the memory, but now that hangs off the CPU it would be hard to multiplex that and becomes difficult.

I thought the motherboard chipset was literally the IOD from Zen in the first place, or is that only for the 570?

[DanceswithUnix]

I thought the motherboard chipset was literally the IOD from Zen in the first place, or is that only for the 570?

That is only the 570.

Earlier boards and rumour has it upcoming B550 etc are a bought in ASMedia chip for the chipset.

They are still a fair chunk of silicon, and a RISC-V 32 bit base instruction set core, boot rom and a bit of RAM would not add horribly to the transistor count if integrated on. Add an optional second ethernet interface and you have a lights out controller. But then people would complain it is a possible security hazard