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Thread: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

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    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    I never understood why Miele could still have a big factory in Germany to make their vaccuum cleaners,and more expensive Dyson "has" to make it in Malaysia.
    If Dyson machines are less reliable, it is because they have either accepted that is the level they want to hit or they got sloppy. Simple as that.

    It does surprise me that companies don't move production to the areas of South Wales and Scotland that are well set up for it. The Raspberry Pi is hardly a high cost item and seems to be thriving well from a Welsh factory.

    As someone who has helped set up production lines in the UK and abroad I have to say in my experience quality is not down to where an item is made but down to materials choice and whether the designing company keeps their eye on the ball. The factory will try and cut costs, materials purchasing is part of their job, and part of your job as an engineer is to keep on top of testing and approving possible second sources and equivalent components. But that's the same whether the factory is in the UK or anywhere else. Oversight is a whole lot easier when the factory is 10 minutes down the road as at my current employer, and one of the costs of manufacturing abroad is having a production engineer on site full time. The worst I have seen is manufacturing inside the M25. Costs were bonkers, it wasn't local enough to keep an easy eye on things but not far enough to keep someone always there. Best was getting a building big enough to move final assembly and test on site.

    OTOH my recent purchase of a Bosch tumble dryer is one of the most disappointing things I have ever bought. The finish is OK but the basic design is junk, of the standard I would expect from a school project rather than an expensive item from a top tier company using a sensor system that clearly can't ever work reliably. It has one job, and clothes come out wet. So much for German engineering.

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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    Dyson trade on brand, they were good, they are a well known name, but now the products have been outsourced and are essentially now a cheap copy of themselves.

    Is there any more information as to why GTech have been put on standby, what about the other companies involved? Wonder if a friend of Dyson is in charge somewhere in the Govt. and has knocked all the others on the head for a brown envelope from his buddy...

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    Moosekateer CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    If Dyson machines are less reliable, it is because they have either accepted that is the level they want to hit or they got sloppy. Simple as that.

    It does surprise me that companies don't move production to the areas of South Wales and Scotland that are well set up for it. The Raspberry Pi is hardly a high cost item and seems to be thriving well from a Welsh factory.

    As someone who has helped set up production lines in the UK and abroad I have to say in my experience quality is not down to where an item is made but down to materials choice and whether the designing company keeps their eye on the ball. The factory will try and cut costs, materials purchasing is part of their job, and part of your job as an engineer is to keep on top of testing and approving possible second sources and equivalent components. But that's the same whether the factory is in the UK or anywhere else. Oversight is a whole lot easier when the factory is 10 minutes down the road as at my current employer, and one of the costs of manufacturing abroad is having a production engineer on site full time. The worst I have seen is manufacturing inside the M25. Costs were bonkers, it wasn't local enough to keep an easy eye on things but not far enough to keep someone always there. Best was getting a building big enough to move final assembly and test on site.

    OTOH my recent purchase of a Bosch tumble dryer is one of the most disappointing things I have ever bought. The finish is OK but the basic design is junk, of the standard I would expect from a school project rather than an expensive item from a top tier company using a sensor system that clearly can't ever work reliably. It has one job, and clothes come out wet. So much for German engineering.
    German labour costs are higher than Malaysia,and Dyson makes high priced items which were profitable even when made in the UK. German labour laws and costs are higher than the UK just like in France - its more of the "quick buck" mentality...coronavirus is exposing how much this country is reliant on external manufacturing of so many items. Even more so than Germany and France,despite them also moving production abroad.

    Miele makes good quality vaccum cleaners,many of which are cheaper than Dyson,despite Malaysia having lower production costs. These are luxury products with a luxury price,so if such items cannot be made "profitably" in the UK when a RPi which costs £25 can,its all just excuses,especially when Dyson is always pushing the patriotic angle. UK companies don't won't to make anything in this country,and yet you have foreign companies from Japan,India,Germany,etc all having factories making stuff here.

    Another problem when you subcontract abroad,companies will frequently change suppliers to cut costs and different companies have different levels of QC/QA. Then you might have several different revisions of the same basic model,which are slightly different internally depending on what supplier they use at any given time.More importantly when it comes to longterm supply of spare parts is a problem. Don't believe me - I can still get spare parts for my Dualit toaster despite it being 20 years old - even the old UK made Kenwood Chefs were the same. The new Kenwood Chefs are now made in China,since Delonghi bought the company up,with a big price increase in certain models. I don't know how long spare parts will be available for them.

    Also my own experience from talking to people,is that a number of UK companies have asked for products exported from countries such as China to the UK to be of lower quality,than equivalent products exported to other markets to save on costs. I can semi confirm this when I have gone abroad and seen some of the Chinese rebadged products sold elsewhere. Some of the Chinese industrial quality tools,cooking equipment,etc costs the same as the rebadged lower quality crap you have here(also made in China) and actually can take some punishment.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 30-03-2020 at 12:27 PM.


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    Ahhh supply chain management, don't get me started lol

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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    I can still get spare parts for my Dualit toaster despite it being 20 years old
    I have to say, I'm impressed that you bothered to fix a toaster! I designed and 3d printed spare parts for my dishwasher to keep it running, and am kicking myself that I didn't just buy some new bearings (again) for the old tumble dryer, but when one side of my toaster wouldn't stay down I must confess I just junked it. Looked more hassle that it was worth. And no, I don't know where the toaster that only lasted 5 years was made.

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    Moosekateer CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I have to say, I'm impressed that you bothered to fix a toaster! I designed and 3d printed spare parts for my dishwasher to keep it running, and am kicking myself that I didn't just buy some new bearings (again) for the old tumble dryer, but when one side of my toaster wouldn't stay down I must confess I just junked it. Looked more hassle that it was worth. And no, I don't know where the toaster that only lasted 5 years was made.
    In fact I just checked when the toaster was made - its actually from the mid 1990s!

    It hasn't broken yet! But I checked on their website and all the major parts are available:
    https://www.dualit.com/support/toasters



    Its very easy to replace the elements in them.

    The same thing with the old Kenwood Chef mixers,the lifespan was measured in decades - 30 years isn't unheard off.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 30-03-2020 at 09:23 PM.


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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    Lacks RGB lighting.

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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    With everyone rushing to design low-cost ventilators now, it's important to remember that these are medical devices that need to perform very delicate functions. It's very easy to do more harm than good when you're relying on good intentions as opposed to subject matter expertise. For some context, see this video

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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    Which is why they have to be approved before they can be used
    Jon

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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonj1611 View Post
    Which is why they have to be approved before they can be used
    Which is what I told people in the other thread,and they wouldn't believe me.

    Also regarding the lockdown,until we get sufficient ventilator capacity,the lockdown is going to last longer. So that is the other problem,rush them out to reduce the length of the lockdown and reduce the testing so you can deploy them quicker.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 06-04-2020 at 01:12 PM.


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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Which is what I told people in the other thread,and they wouldn't believe me.

    Also regarding the lockdown,until we get sufficient ventilator capacity,the lockdown is going to last longer. So that is the other problem,rush them out to reduce the length of the lockdown and reduce the testing so you can deploy them quicker.
    How will ventilator capacity affect lockdown duration?

    I'd have thought it will only be relevant to survival rate.

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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    Looks like The Donald is going to be sending some vents to help. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52213439

    Current estimate for vents needed in the US is about 20,000.

    My State has already started dismantling field hospitals. I don't think any of them ever saw a patient.

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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    Quote Originally Posted by DrillSgt View Post
    How will ventilator capacity affect lockdown duration?

    I'd have thought it will only be relevant to survival rate.
    The lockdown is there to manage the numbers of patients using ICU beds(which have ventilators),so if you have less ventilator capacity its easier to hit the ICU bed capacity quicker. If there is greater capacity the health system can manage more ill people,so the lockdown can be shorter overall,and has less chance of being overwhelmed. The same goes with PPE,so this is why you have to have stockpiles of those too.

    To put it in context,the US has 173000 ventilators for just over 300 million people,the UK has nearly 10000 currently for 66 million people including the ones we managed to buy recently. It needs between 12000~18000 for the peak at least according to government,and they are trying to have around 30000 ventilators purchased.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 09-04-2020 at 06:37 PM.


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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    So ends that: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52409359

    Is it time to admit that this was all an overreaction?

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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    Quote Originally Posted by TeePee View Post
    So ends that: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52409359

    Is it time to admit that this was all an overreaction?
    No.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2020...orse-than-flu/

    You should always plan for the worst, and hope for the best. What we got wasn't the worst that was planned for (thankfully), but hardly the best either. The number of doctors and nurses in ICU probably needs to come down somewhat before we start getting cocky.

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    Re: All we know about the Dyson CoVent ventilator

    Still find it impressive how quickly this was designed and engineered.

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