LinkBack URL
About LinkBacksMakes sense this will need to happen at some steps.
Still happy as each chipset will probably support 3 generations.
If my x570 + 3700x combo was made by intel I would need an x670 for a 4700x without a doubt.
Makes sense this will need to happen at some steps.
Still happy as each chipset will probably support 3 generations.
If my x570 + 3700x combo was made by intel I would need an x670 for a 4700x without a doubt.
You have a different BIOS for B450 and B550 boards. Right now everyone with a zen2 chip on any chipset below X570 (and there's a lot on this forum) is happily connecting the PCIe 4.0 chipset link in zen2 with the PCIe 3.0 chipset with zero ill effects.Originally Posted by LSG501
You're right about the profit - benefit of the intel model is you can sell two things each upgrade cycle rather than one
AMD for the last 12 months made sure there was no B550 release,so pushed most of the mainstream users to buy B450. So those people have one generation of updates.
Now they are making up excuses to say it does not work,which for me is no better than Intel. A lot of Zen2 owners will be in the same boat as Intel users,but on many forums Intel threads were trolled by people pointing out Intel has no "upgrade path". The irony!
A few things AMD has conveniently ignored. There is a huge list on Reddit of motherboard specifications:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment..._motherboards/
A lot of X570 motherboards have 16MB BIOS chips,which is the same as cheaper B450 motherboards. Conversely better quality B450/X470 motherboards have 32MB BIOS chips like high end X570 motherboards.
Many motherboards such as ones from MSI have a BIOS flashback feature,ie,they don't need a CPU to work. So you don't need a big BIOS with lots of CPU support.
There is also no real reason for the lack of B450 compatibility:
https://videocardz.com/newz/schenker...h-b450-chipset
Schenker,a German OEM, said B450 only need some microcode updates to work,and industry sources in Taiwan were saying B450 should work too(China Times,etc) even in April.
They have taken since June/July last year to actually get the accompanying mainstream chipset for Zen2 to be releaased. They used vague marketing to imply Zen3 would work,you had OEMs such as Schenker saying all was needed was microcode updates,had lots of people saying Zen3 should work.
What did they do?? Just kept quiet,because they knew if they told people B450 would not work beyond Zen2,and you needed an X570 they would lose sales to Intel. They would not have a platform advantage on mainstream compared to Intel,and if you had to buy an X570 motherboard,you could probably get a better Intel CPU for gaming with a cheaper motherboard. For things such as gaming Intel is still better even if it is marginal.
This reminds me of what happened with socket 754,and AM2,AM3,FM1 and FM2.
Also HUB has actually did some checking.
Also for me,the B550 is probably going to be short lived. AMD will be moving to Zen4 in 2022,and probably DDR5. They will probably double cores,and I expect DDR4 will become a bottleneck,even if Zen4 uses a hybrid DDR4/DDR5 memory controller. We saw this with the Phenom II X6,which really required DDR3 to get the best out of it,even if those CPUs could work with DDR2.
So at this point probably might as well skip Zen3,and keep your existing Zen+ or Zen2 CPU,as you would need to buy a new CPU and motherboard anyway,and the 400 series motherboards will probably lose a lot of value. Don't get me wrong Zen3 will probably be decent,but I would rather wait for DDR5.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 08-05-2020 at 03:19 PM.
Hmm, if Asmedia are making the B550 chip as rumoured, then AMD has no skin in that game and are only going to sell one chip per upgrade cycle anyway. But compatibility could be a part of a contract made with Asmedia, so perhaps Asmedia are calling the shots here.
I still think it CPU upgrading doesn't hurt though. I had been considering getting a B450 board for my spare 2200G, but lack up upgrade path to Zen 3 puts me off. OTOH, If I hold out for B550 to get the upgrade path, there is no current APU that will run in it including my 2200G? So no sale, of anything. I'll wait.
AMD probably buys the bits from various companies,certifies them and sells them onto the motherboard OEMs?? They probably do make a cut out of the motherboards.
TBH,sometimes I wonder whether a console is less hassle!
I am sad my only path of upgrade on my motherboard are threadriooer 2, anything newer and i will have to fork over money again for a new motherboard and CPU.
Looking back i really think i paid too much for my motherboard then,,,,, wayyyy to much as its a top of the line model.
Oh,yes AMD also did the same to X399 owners too. That is another one to add to the list. Commiserations!
Pretty annoying... was really looking forward to a Ryzen 4000 in my existing mobo
Looks like our only hope is the motherboard manufacturers going rogue, but that seems like expecting turkeys to vote for Xmas.
Because it isn't down to purely the manufacturers of the boards.
But because AMD have to produce the code that they use as a base.
If the board partners decide to go their own way with that, then that will be unofficial support and that board cannot be sold being described as supporting the CPUs.
Who will then buy it for those CPUs when nowhere on its marketing, spec sheets etc can it be mentioned that support is there.
And then there will be the issue of consistency without an equal base for them all to start with.
AMD also miscommunicated to OEMs! The German OEM I mentioned earlier,just updated their own Reddit thread. So all their B450 systems are now in limbo.
The OEM had to find out from the official news release,that it didn't work! AMD had told them through official channels B450 would work.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 08-05-2020 at 06:22 PM.
look even on a x370 you could use the bios .. you just cut out the crap ..
basically over write all the stuff you don't need ..
just make it so it can only use zen3 and no other chip .. loads of room ..
What does it matter now if men believe or no?
What is to come will come. And soon you too will stand aside,
To murmur in pity that my words were true
(Cassandra, in Agamemnon by Aeschylus)
To see the wizard one must look behind the curtain ....
People are wondering why Intel and Nvidia are so over-represented in prebuilt systems...there is your answer. If a system integrator is told one thing through official channels,and then has to hear news contradicting that from the media,how can these companies really plan ahead?? If Intel and Nvidia can provide more solid and more consistent information,integrators will stay with them.
I know my X399 chipset would not be able to handle some of the new things in the new threadrippers, but i am good with that too, to a large degree at least.
Say i wanted to update to TR3, i could just plop it in my TR4 socket and use what it and the X399 can do, and then save up some pennies and maybe in a few months get a TR40 or whatever they are called motherboards to enjoy all my new CPU can do. ( in which case i would have to buy more new stuff to unlock that , like a new faster nvme drive and GFX card if i wanted to unlock all the new features )
But as it is now i an forced to save pennies hard, and then go CPU and mobo too, in which case it might be wiser to buy another brand, at least having to get both in one go open up for that avenue, something a partly upgrade would not do, and you keep your costumer "locked" into your brand.
Of course if the TR3 processors absolutely must have a new socket as it have more pins, then i get it just fine but i am not sure the new TR3 processors have more pins ? ( not looking much into hardware ATM as i sort of have what i need and i have lost my geekness edge )
Loving this thread, I think this is a very interesting discussion
This just proves it: you can please all the people some of the time, you can lease some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time.
I mean, at this rate, AMD socket longevity is about 3 or 4 times or years that of Intel (which I would say is about the average time many enthusiasts get the upgrade itch with big enough improvements to justify it), at a platform cost that's usually appreciably lower and yet there are some who still expect a commercial entity looking for profits to indefinitely support...everything for every product cycle. Forgetting also that AMD has just 12k in employees for both CPU and GPU operations compared to the 110k for Intel.
Come on now - at some point, they've got to be given the benefit of the doubt...
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
