AMD confirms you will need a 500 series chipset or newer for Zen 3

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

This just proves it: you can please all the people some of the time, you can lease some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time.

I mean, at this rate, AMD socket longevity is about 3 or 4 times or years that of Intel (which I would say is about the average time many enthusiasts get the upgrade itch with big enough improvements to justify it), at a platform cost that's usually appreciably lower and yet there are some who still expect a commercial entity looking for profits to indefinitely support...everything for every product cycle. Forgetting also that AMD has just 12k in employees for both CPU and GPU operations compared to the 110k for Intel.

Come on now - at some point, they've got to be given the benefit of the doubt...

For Zen2,AMD won't release the B550 until next month. For 12 months after the Zen2 launch the B450 was the mainstream Zen2 chipset,and that is their fault entirely.Most people who have a Zen2 CPU,have a B450 motherboard which now is EOL after one generation of CPUs. Most OEM systems use a B450.

AMD kept quiet for 12 months,and didn't tell anyone Zen3 wouldn't work with B450,and even said contradicting things to system integrators in the channel,who were taken back when they heard the press release.





So even their partners don't get a proper message,which was originally B450 would be fine. They have pulled this crap before,with socket 754,AM2,AM3,FM1 and FM2 too. I remember back in the Athlon 64 days,when they saw a smidgen of success they also started acting like Intel. These companies are only nice to you,when it suits them.

Even the whole BIOS excuse is on them too - AMD has a reference specification for the platform,so they should set minimum BIOS chip sizes. Even many X570 motherboards still use 16MB BIOS chips.

Their PR,went along with the whole platform spiel,and if they had just basically told people last year,none of this would have happened. They should have functional PR who actually is factual instead of stringing people along,with vague statements.

Both Intel and Nvidia get criticised a lot for the stunts they pull,and AMD does not get a free pass either!

[kalniel]

I get the impression X570 wasn't quite the smooth product development that AMD will have wanted - having to use Zen IOH as the motherboard chipset seems a bit overkill and the problems with PCIe4 controllers (necessitating using that IOH) look like they persist (or Intel wouldn't still be on PCIe3 for their latest).

At this point a lot of people probably put Zen 2 on 400 series, so AMD might need to shift more inventory of 500 series and/or justify non-trivial development of other 500 series products.

The situation with B550 and chipset/PCIe4 cooling will be interesting - are they going to use Zen IOH again or have they managed to get a third party chipset working? If B550 is passive then it might even more more attractive than X570.

[Terbinator]

Just seen the entry cost of an ITX X570 board on Scan is £220 and up. OOF.

Anandtech seem to think it won't be much cheaper on B550?

[el_raberto]

Forward or backward compatability of a motherboard has never been an issue for me. I buy the motherboard/CPU combo I'm happy with at the time and 4-5 years later upgrade both. I really have no expectations from manufacturers in this regard. If there is some longevity in compatability for newer CPUs, I treat it as a bonus because just as I haven't wanted/needed to change the CPU sooner, you never know?

[ik9000]

Could it have anything to do with X370 and x470 B450 having win7 drivers and support and they just don't want to have to issue any drivers for those older boards that people can hack to get win7 working on ryzen 3 chips (like they have with ryzen2+ on x570)

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Could it have anything to do with X370 and x470 B450 having win7 drivers and support and they just don't want to have to issue any drivers for those older boards that people can hack to get win7 working on ryzen 3 chips (like they have with ryzen2+ on x570)

They told a system integrator that it would work. Now the same system integrator had to hear about the news the same way we all have. It makes me wonder whether MSI was told the same,so released the newer B450 MAX line in 2H 2019 for the same reason. HUB in a video said they would not release microcode(apparently),then they told Tech Deals,they could make it work,but it would lead to confusion,so won't.

The whole thing is a typical AMD PR masterclass. Look at how they messed up the 5600XT launch with their BIOS problems.

I get the impression X570 wasn't quite the smooth product development that AMD will have wanted - having to use Zen IOH as the motherboard chipset seems a bit overkill and the problems with PCIe4 controllers (necessitating using that IOH) look like they persist (or Intel wouldn't still be on PCIe3 for their latest).

At this point a lot of people probably put Zen 2 on 400 series, so AMD might need to shift more inventory of 500 series and/or justify non-trivial development of other 500 series products.

The situation with B550 and chipset/PCIe4 cooling will be interesting - are they going to use Zen IOH again or have they managed to get a third party chipset working? If B550 is passive then it might even more more attractive than X570.

It's made by ASMedia like the previous chipsets. This is the first leaked low end OEM B550 motherboard:

[3dcandy]

Feet firmly on both sides of this argument I reckon they are damned if the do and damned if they don't...

You want latest and greatest cpu and io - get a Zen 3 and 500 series mobo. Don't want the cutting edge - then there are plenty of Zen 2 chips and B450 mobos out there for you too. I'm still on a 2700X and 2600's here on B450 as they were the best I could get within my budget. They aren't suddenly going to be rubbish! If you really want to put a new cpu in and not use it to the fullest that's your problem - but AMD are on a roll and want to hammer home the advantage. As said the others have pulled this stunt many times...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Feet firmly on both sides of this argument I reckon they are damned if the do and damned if they don't...

You want latest and greatest cpu and io - get a Zen 3 and 500 series mobo. Don't want the cutting edge - then there are plenty of Zen 2 chips and B450 mobos out there for you too. I'm still on a 2700X and 2600's here on B450 as they were the best I could get within my budget. They aren't suddenly going to be rubbish! If you really want to put a new cpu in and not use it to the fullest that's your problem - but AMD are on a roll and want to hammer home the advantage. As said the others have pulled this stunt many times...

You like me have had our systems much longer than people who upgraded after Zen2 was launched. The problem is AMD held back the B550 from OEMs,who from all reports I heard really wanted to have the B550 out. This forced many OEMs to release refreshed B450 motherboards and new models after Zen2 was released,and cost them money.

With X570 being over £180 for quite a while,it meant almost all Zen2 owners and most prebuilt Zen2 systems use B450 motherboards.All X570 motherboards had active cooling which was noisy under load and the fans will probably wear out as they are tiny. There were practical reasons for not getting a X570 motherboard too. The mainstream users get a one generation upgrade,whilst AMD was actively promoting its upgradeability over Intel. So AMD has made a big F U to the majority of their own customers.

In the end the fault lies at the feet of AMD,for not releasing a new mainstream chipset for Zen2 last year. Then they kept quiet to not only DIY builders,but told some system integrators that it would work until this week. Then they started saying porkies about BIOS chip limitations, when it was quite clear many X570 motherboards have the same sized BIOS chips as B450/X470 motherboards,and many have bigger BIOS chips,and a number have CPUless BIOS flashing.

This should not be defended in anyway. AMD has no right to get a free pass,as Intel and Nvidia certainly don't get one either. I remember even when Zen was released,everyone was blaming the OEMs,reviewers,etc. I was arguing with many when I said it's their fault really,as they should know how to work with their own partners and reviewers. Nothing has changed it appears!

[3dcandy]

Aye Cat I hear ya...

But I still think they are erring on caution - even maybe too much. They still need to be cheaper however compelling the product just because they aren't Intel. Same as on the graphics side. And this causes particular issues. Yep they could have been better, but then so could Intel, NV, Qualcomm Apple et al.

They've managed a decent amount of stability recently. This is kinda a minor issue in the grand scheme of things for the majority of people

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It looks like another rumour has cropped up. AMD will release new Zen2 models with a slight clockspeed bump,and apparently its locked only to 500 series chipsets. Looks like the majority of Zen2 owners will be also screwed if this is true,so a major issue here,so they are copying Intel style segmentation tactics. In fact actually worse as Intel NEVER blocked the Core i7 4790K and Core i7 7700K from earlier motherboards.

What was reported in this thread was actually leaked last week,so lets see if this new rumour is true.

With Intel being ahead in gaming,it actually makes sense for mainstream buyers,probably to look at their new range with SMT too. As Intel overclocks better,an overclocked K series CPU,will probably cost less than getting a B550/X570 with Zen2,and then Zen3 anyway. As AMD obviously has given up now on actually bothering to keep longer socket lifespan,I think that "advantage" needs to be thrown out. There is nothing stopping AMD releasing a X670 and B650 with Zen3 and saying 500 series motherboards have lesser functionality,or lower performance.

They have gone back to what they did before,ie, socket 754,AM2,AM3,FM1 and FM2.

Edit!!

https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed/...43571517833216

Missed opportunity for some misleading marketing from Intel.

Second Edit:

Apparently someone decompiled the BIOS of their X370 motherboard,which supports Bristol Ridge to Zen2:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment..._for_the_x370/

It's well under 16MB.8MB~11MB for BIOSes.

[HacKage]

I bought my first AMD setup (1600AF and B450 Aorus Pro) a couple of weeks ago with the idea that I'd basically have an upgrade path on this mobo upto and including Zen3 when Zen4(?) is released. Having Zen2 as the last option is pretty disappointing.

[UseItNow]

Sorry all if I'm out of the loop on Zen 3 CPU's but when will the next wave hitting or are expected too?

Was just looking to upgrade too but if they're around the corner I'll wait another month or two, thanks.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Sorry all if I'm out of the loop on Zen 3 CPU's but when will the next wave hitting or are expected too?

Was just looking to upgrade too but if they're around the corner I'll wait another month or two, thanks.

Zen3 is probably end of the year or early next year.

If you need to do a mainstream build now I would wait,until the end of June for the B550 motherboards as AMD says they are compatible. However,all of these claims usually have disclaimers,so none of us know if AMD won't release a B650 or X670 for Zen3(even if they deny it now),and make certain features only work on the newer motherboard. If you intend to do a Zen3 build,I would wait until Zen3 is released,and see the situation at that point.

[DanceswithUnix]

I bought my first AMD setup (1600AF and B450 Aorus Pro) a couple of weeks ago with the idea that I'd basically have an upgrade path on this mobo upto and including Zen3 when Zen4(?) is released. Having Zen2 as the last option is pretty disappointing.

I'm sure you aren't the only one in that situation.

The more I think about it, this is all about the B450. My B350 boards, well they are dated enough that I can kind of shrug those off. Similarly I have had the X470 board in this home machine for some time now, so slight disappointment that it can't be upgraded but then the 3700X in it right now I was expecting to last me anyway.

But the B450 board I bought last week, that stings. And the three bought at work 2 months ago. Those were the latest mid range spec at the time of purchase.

At work we have a couple of B350 motherboards and all sorts of B450 motherboards, A couple of those are pre-built engineering workstation machines where overclocking and PCIe4 graphics are meaningless so B450 seemed the best option. Had I known the upgrade path was limited, I would have gotten them with X570 boards instead. Had the B550 board not been horribly delayed, they would no doubt have used those.

Not AMD's finest hour.

[ik9000]

I think it's beyond poor personally. AM4 can easily work they just need to make it so. Come on AMD, don't be di..intel about this. It's not hard to do pairs of BIOS versions to suit different generations of CPUs if the only limitation is the on-board memory for the BIOS. Particularly with the current global economy looking like it's going to the dogs. Maybe that's the issue, they want to force expenditure that might not otherwise come? Bit shortsighted if you ask me! Support people at times like this and you get loyalty for a lot longer. This approach they're taking undermines so much goodwill.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I think it's beyond poor personally. AM4 can easily work they just need to make it so. Come on AMD, don't be di..intel about this. It's not hard to do pairs of BIOS versions to suit different generations of CPUs if the only limitation is the on-board memory for the BIOS. Particularly with the current global economy looking like it's going to the dogs. Maybe that's the issue, they want to force expenditure that might not otherwise come? Bit shortsighted if you ask me! Support people at times like this and you get loyalty for a lot longer. This approach they're taking undermines so much goodwill.

What is even worse is the AMD fans on forums(like Reddit and not Hexus BTW) now falling on their swords defending AMD on this. These people are still piddling on Intel everytime someone mentions their CPUs,and still saying Intel has limited socket lifespan,which is funny as AMD isn't always ahead in pure performance for things such as gaming. The amount of cognitive dissonance is hilarious. It reminds me of the Athlon 64 era,when AMD did some questionable thngs because they were the top dog,and they defended them too. People need to understand why Intel and Nvidia has gotten away with questionable things,because people allowed them to,and AMD is no different. They act nice because they were behind,but once they are the top dog,they will do the same. Just because they are "nicer" does not give them the right to be without criticism,whilst people then criticise Intel and Nvidia.