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Thread: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

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    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Yes,but now motherboard makers need to do the support. Let's see if Asus gets on it!











    Well from what Gamersnexus said about how interested OEMs were:

    MSI>ASRock/Gigabyte>Asus.

    My motherboard is Asus!!
    Hello Again!


    MSI would naturally be more enthusiastic about it as they have the JSPI1 header on the motherboard(s) making it relatively easy to flash the chip (diy solutions also exist making it easy to backup the "old" bios fully before going for the update). Don't know about Asrock* but Gigabyte could make use of the Dual Bios feature on supported boards whereas ASUS having limited** flashing header support across the range might also find it difficult to program the chip(s) directly if needed (relevant for updating inventory and relevant for recovering from failed or unneeded updates)! Anyhow, it would be interesting to see all of them try!

    Regards,
    Ahmed

    Edit(s):
    *Yes, they have the BIOS_PH header for easier bios flashing as well!
    ** might not be that limited, haven't looked at all of the models ... might be wanting to avoid extra work
    Last edited by ahmedfarazch; 20-05-2020 at 09:10 PM.

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    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedfarazch View Post
    Hello Again!


    MSI would naturally be more enthusiastic about it as they have the JSPI1 header on the motherboard(s) making it relatively easy to flash the chip (diy solutions also exist making it easy to backup the "old" bios fully before going for the update). Don't know about Asrock* but Gigabyte could make use of the Dual Bios feature on supported boards whereas ASUS having limited** flashing header support across the range might also find it difficult to program the chip(s) directly if needed (relevant for updating inventory and relevant for recovering from failed or unneeded updates)! Anyhow, it would be interesting to see all of them try!

    Regards,
    Ahmed

    Edit(s):
    *Yes, they have the BIOS_PH header for easier bios flashing as well!
    ** might not be that limited, haven't looked at all of the models ... might be wanting to avoid extra work
    Thanks for the information. My motherboard even though it is an Asus B450,does actually have a larger 32MB BIOS chip,but I do find it sad that dual BIOS isn't a standard thing on motherboards now. It is something which has existed for a very long time. Saw your earlier comment too,it would be nice to move to a more modern hardware implement of the BIOS,which is more flexible. It's not like flash memory is expensive either.


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

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    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    ... plus that's overkill for a NAS sire
    Depends whether you expect your NAS to run a few virtual machines which is pretty common these days. My next machine update is for our home server and my spare 2200G seems underpowered (as well as lacks ECC ram).

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    hypotheticals - but AMD are saying it will not be possible to go back to an older bios. Why not?
    I'm sure it must be possible, but I think AMD are being very careful about setting expectation. Probably trying to put people off as well.

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    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    exactly ! It all smells fishy to me. Especially when you add to that observation that the entirety of Gigabyte's Aorus x570 range only have 16MB chips. Anyone else finding this kind of smelling of something?
    I do wonder what triggered this. My best guess would be slipping DDR5 volume release dates.

    When Zen1 came out we were told Am4 would last until 2020 when DDR5 would force a socket change. That's pushed out to 2021/22 so we are probably looking at a Zen3+ or Zen4 extending AM4 well past it's expected best before date.

    Looking at the only uATX X570 board I can find (ITX has more options, but too expensive and I need two plug in cards) it has a 32MB rom and a tiny supported CPU list even by 16MB standards. I have to ask, what the heck do they need all that space for?

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    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I do wonder what triggered this. My best guess would be slipping DDR5 volume release dates.

    When Zen1 came out we were told Am4 would last until 2020 when DDR5 would force a socket change. That's pushed out to 2021/22 so we are probably looking at a Zen3+ or Zen4 extending AM4 well past it's expected best before date.

    Looking at the only uATX X570 board I can find (ITX has more options, but too expensive and I need two plug in cards) it has a 32MB rom and a tiny supported CPU list even by 16MB standards. I have to ask, what the heck do they need all that space for?
    they don't. It's the space for the NSA exploits... I mean err

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    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig View Post
    unless they wipe the board totally and it will ONLY support Zen3, in which case how will a board react if you flash a BIOS that removes support for the CPU you have in the board when you flash it...
    Quite simple, the flash succeeds and the board continues to work till you reboot/powercycle. Then all you get is a blackscreen and maybe some nondescript beep concert till you drop the new (now supported) CPU in.

    This is exactly what happened with the ASRock AB350M-Pro4 in my mums PC. The most recent BIOS updates (6.0 and newer) dropped support for all old APUs (Bristol and Raven Ridge), all Zen (Summit Ridge) and Zen+ (Pinnacle Ridge) CPUs in order to make room in the BIOS chip to support Zen 2 CPUs (Matisse) and Picasso APUs (R3 3200G, R5 3400G and the like).
    However, you can (with a trick) go back to a BIOS version pre-6.0 which will support all the older CPUs/APUs but not Matisse and Picasso if you really need to. Drawback is that you obviously need to have a supported CPU no matter if you want to down or upgrade the BIOS.


    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedfarazch View Post
    - AMD processors older than "Matisse" can only access 16MB of flash
    Unless something changed dramatically that I'm not aware of, the southbridge deals with the BIOS chip, not the CPU itself Oo


    And as for AMD saying "you won't be able to downgrade the BIOS".... nothing a SPI flasher can't fix if you really need to (CH341A USB thingie and the like). I'm expecting BIOS modders to take on the challenge of cobbling together BIOSes that support multiple generations (incl. Zen3), even if that requires replacing the SPI flash on the board with a larger one (which is usually easy to do, unless the board manufacturer used a stupid BGA version of the flash chip)

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    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambooz View Post
    Unless something changed dramatically that I'm not aware of, the southbridge deals with the BIOS chip, not the CPU itself Oo
    AM4 is an SoC platform, the chipset isn't a south bridge but more of an IO expander. If you get an A300 or A320 motherboard, it doesn't have any chipset at all, everything is done by the CPU.

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