Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 17 to 32 of 55

Thread: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

  1. #17
    Alien Symbiote Sumanji's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Boston, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,959
    Thanks
    86
    Thanked
    51 times in 33 posts
    • Sumanji's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus ROG Crosshair VII Hero
      • CPU:
      • AMD Ryzen 7 2700X
      • Memory:
      • 16GB G.Skill TridentZ C14 3200MHz
      • Storage:
      • Samsung 970 EVO 500GB, Samsung 860 EVO 1TB, Western Digital Blue 2TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire Radeon Vega 64
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium 850W
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Meshify C TG
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • LG 34GK950F 34" (3440x1440 @144Hz)
      • Internet:
      • Comcast Xfinity (1000 / 40)

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Yay!

    Sort of... let's see what the mobo manufacturers do with this 'gift'...


  2. #18
    RIP Peterb ik9000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    5,705
    Thanks
    1,375
    Thanked
    920 times in 694 posts
    • ik9000's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P7H55-M/USB3
      • CPU:
      • i7-870, Prolimatech Megahalems, 2x Akasa Apache 120mm
      • Memory:
      • 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133 11-11-11-27
      • Storage:
      • 2x256GB Samsung 840-Pro, 1TB Seagate 7200.12, 1TB Seagate ES.2
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB SuperOverClocked
      • PSU:
      • NZXT Hale 90 750w
      • Case:
      • BitFenix Survivor + Bitfenix spectre LED fans, LG BluRay R/W optical drive
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Professional
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2414h, U2311h 1920x1080
      • Internet:
      • 200Mb/s Fibre and 4G wifi

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    I'd like to think CAT single-handedly deservers a certain % of the credit for this!
    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    I am just a lone Moose with a keyboard,I say it was a group effort!
    @CatV

  3. Received thanks from:

    CAT-THE-FIFTH (20-05-2020)

  4. #19
    Moosekateer CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    29,376
    Thanks
    3,303
    Thanked
    4,611 times in 3,557 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by KultiVator View Post
    Had a feeling you'd be happy about this ;-P

    Good result for a large chunk of the Ryzen faithful & the early Zen adopters.

    Yes,but now motherboard makers need to do the support. Let's see if Asus gets on it!

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Cat is a lone moose...

    Must resist animal puns from now to eternity


    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    @CatV


    Quote Originally Posted by Sumanji View Post
    Yay!

    Sort of... let's see what the mobo manufacturers do with this 'gift'...

    Well from what Gamersnexus said about how interested OEMs were:

    MSI>ASRock/Gigabyte>Asus.

    My motherboard is Asus!!


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  5. #20
    RIP Peterb ik9000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    5,705
    Thanks
    1,375
    Thanked
    920 times in 694 posts
    • ik9000's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P7H55-M/USB3
      • CPU:
      • i7-870, Prolimatech Megahalems, 2x Akasa Apache 120mm
      • Memory:
      • 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133 11-11-11-27
      • Storage:
      • 2x256GB Samsung 840-Pro, 1TB Seagate 7200.12, 1TB Seagate ES.2
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB SuperOverClocked
      • PSU:
      • NZXT Hale 90 750w
      • Case:
      • BitFenix Survivor + Bitfenix spectre LED fans, LG BluRay R/W optical drive
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Professional
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2414h, U2311h 1920x1080
      • Internet:
      • 200Mb/s Fibre and 4G wifi

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    just for once I'm glad to have gone MSI. I notice they also provided PS2 at the high end too. If they'd just help me with my driver issue instead of ignoring my posts maybe I wouldn't think they were so bad.

  6. #21
    HEXUS.Squirrel Output's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,857
    Thanks
    749
    Thanked
    315 times in 235 posts
    • Output's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte AORUS Master X570
      • CPU:
      • AMD Ryzen 9 3950X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 Corsair Vengeance Platinum @ 3200MHz
      • Storage:
      • Sandisk Ultra 3D 2TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte RX Vega 56 Gaming OC 8GB
      • PSU:
      • EVGA G3 750
      • Case:
      • bequiet Dark Base Pro 900 Rev.2
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2 x Dell P2214H

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Cat is a lone moose...

    Must resist animal puns from now to eternity
    Pfft, why resist? CAT could be considered a Moosekateer...

  7. Received thanks from:

    CAT-THE-FIFTH (20-05-2020),ik9000 (19-05-2020)

  8. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Wonderful Warwick!
    Posts
    3,053
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked
    117 times in 100 posts

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    just for once I'm glad to have gone MSI. I notice they also provided PS2 at the high end too. If they'd just help me with my driver issue instead of ignoring my posts maybe I wouldn't think they were so bad.
    PS2 - why?
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

  9. #23
    Moosekateer CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    29,376
    Thanks
    3,303
    Thanked
    4,611 times in 3,557 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by Output View Post
    Pfft, why resist? CAT could be considered a Moosekateer...
    I like the ring of Moosekateer!


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  10. #24
    RIP Peterb ik9000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    5,705
    Thanks
    1,375
    Thanked
    920 times in 694 posts
    • ik9000's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P7H55-M/USB3
      • CPU:
      • i7-870, Prolimatech Megahalems, 2x Akasa Apache 120mm
      • Memory:
      • 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133 11-11-11-27
      • Storage:
      • 2x256GB Samsung 840-Pro, 1TB Seagate 7200.12, 1TB Seagate ES.2
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB SuperOverClocked
      • PSU:
      • NZXT Hale 90 750w
      • Case:
      • BitFenix Survivor + Bitfenix spectre LED fans, LG BluRay R/W optical drive
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Professional
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2414h, U2311h 1920x1080
      • Internet:
      • 200Mb/s Fibre and 4G wifi

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    PS2 - why?
    better for high end OC and more importantly for me - allows easy win7 install

  11. #25
    Monkey Apex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Huddersfield
    Posts
    4,373
    Thanks
    809
    Thanked
    195 times in 128 posts
    • Apex's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Z87M-PLUS
      • CPU:
      • Intel i5-4670K
      • Memory:
      • 16 GiB
      • Storage:
      • 6.0 TiB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • R9 480X
      • PSU:
      • 750
      • Case:
      • Node 804
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 64Bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2410 24"
      • Internet:
      • 200Mb nTL Cable

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    better for high end OC and more importantly for me - allows easy win7 install
    Is it because of the lack of USB3 support ?



  12. #26
    Registered+
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    63
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked
    10 times in 7 posts

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    I think this is a positive move. But at the same time it feels like there is a game of double standards going on.

    Sure, new buyers of B450 would get singed, but it’s still untold the longevity of the AM4 socket and compatibility with the number of CPUs it offers. These new buyers are also buying a chipset that is over a year old now and for what is ostensibly a very competitive price. AMD announce a cut off point and their fans are in uproar.

    Switch to Intel... who change chipset almost every year, bring almost nothing to the table and just iterate and they get away with it. Look at the new 10th Gen stuff. Needs a new chipset, none of which come cheap like AMDs do. Why? Power delivery. The process node is the same. The core architecture is the same. There are scant or no new features even Gen4 PCI-E on these boards. Yet the costs of the boards and the chips are staggering. And where are the crowds in uproar about that? Neither to be seen or heard. And the joke is that Intel will still sell them hand over fist.

    Just doesn’t seem fair that AMD are offering so much and yet still can’t get away with a cut off point on a very widely compatible product that is available at competitive prices.

  13. #27
    RIP Peterb ik9000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    5,705
    Thanks
    1,375
    Thanked
    920 times in 694 posts
    • ik9000's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P7H55-M/USB3
      • CPU:
      • i7-870, Prolimatech Megahalems, 2x Akasa Apache 120mm
      • Memory:
      • 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133 11-11-11-27
      • Storage:
      • 2x256GB Samsung 840-Pro, 1TB Seagate 7200.12, 1TB Seagate ES.2
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB SuperOverClocked
      • PSU:
      • NZXT Hale 90 750w
      • Case:
      • BitFenix Survivor + Bitfenix spectre LED fans, LG BluRay R/W optical drive
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Professional
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2414h, U2311h 1920x1080
      • Internet:
      • 200Mb/s Fibre and 4G wifi

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphadeus View Post
    Just doesn’t seem fair that AMD are offering so much and yet still can’t get away with a cut off point on a very widely compatible product that is available at competitive prices.
    "buy our boards, we don't screw you over like intel"
    "Great, you bought our boards! Thanks! Anyone mind if we screw you over like intel?"
    "Oh you do mind, ok ok we did say we wouldn't do that so we won't. Mostly. But you can't have your cake and eat it. We'll needlessly make it a one-way trip"

  14. Received thanks from:

    CAT-THE-FIFTH (20-05-2020)

  15. #28
    Moosekateer CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    29,376
    Thanks
    3,303
    Thanked
    4,611 times in 3,557 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    AMD made posts calling out Intel,and a lot of new buyers were converts from Intel fed up with what Intel was doing. So when AMD apparently did the same,they were OFC annoyed. The fact is AMD made vague statements and implications that they "were better" than the competition due to socket longevity,and they didn't release a mainstream chipset for Zen2.

    Quote Originally Posted by AMD in July 2019
    The alternative to this BIOS "problem," which we find truly repugnant, is simply breaking socket compatibility with every new generation of CPU. Nobody can keep their old motherboard and upgrade, anymore. Nobody would ever have to worry about a BIOS update again... but they would also never get to keep their investment ever again. To us, that is not the right thing to do. It seems hostile and abusive to arbitrarily prevent users from keeping the same motherboard, which may cost a few hundred dollars, just to make the upgrade process a little "neater" on paper. So we do what we can to support in-socket upgrades as we have with Socket AM4.
    Intel never has implied or stated they would maintain sockets,but AMD did.

    Also,I think you underestimate how much negativity Intel has got over it's CFL lockouts too:
    https://forums.hexus.net/cpus/380639-really-intel.html
    https://forums.hexus.net/hexus-news/...-chipsets.html


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  16. #29
    RIP Peterb ik9000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    5,705
    Thanks
    1,375
    Thanked
    920 times in 694 posts
    • ik9000's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P7H55-M/USB3
      • CPU:
      • i7-870, Prolimatech Megahalems, 2x Akasa Apache 120mm
      • Memory:
      • 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance 2133 11-11-11-27
      • Storage:
      • 2x256GB Samsung 840-Pro, 1TB Seagate 7200.12, 1TB Seagate ES.2
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB SuperOverClocked
      • PSU:
      • NZXT Hale 90 750w
      • Case:
      • BitFenix Survivor + Bitfenix spectre LED fans, LG BluRay R/W optical drive
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Professional
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2414h, U2311h 1920x1080
      • Internet:
      • 200Mb/s Fibre and 4G wifi

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by Apex View Post
    Is it because of the lack of USB3 support ?
    yup. you either need a ps2 card or usb2 card. My usb2 card wouldn't play nicely however my ps2 card worked fine - so I could have done it with a board without native ps2, but it did make it easier to only have to keep swapping one of the two peripherals between uefi and windows.

  17. #30
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    10,733
    Thanks
    566
    Thanked
    1,154 times in 980 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 3700X
      • Memory:
      • 16GB 3200MHz
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Linux, 1TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 30 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Samsung 2343BW 2048x1152
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb/20Mb VDSL

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Well from what Gamersnexus said about how interested OEMs were:

    MSI>ASRock/Gigabyte>Asus.

    My motherboard is Asus!!
    While I can believe ASUS weren't bothered how this all panned out, whether they embrace the new way forward is another thing entirely. They won't want to be singled out, and being the size they are may even have more resource to throw at it. My worry with Asus is the whole "you need to show you bought a Zen3 to get the Beta BIOS" thing. That involves attempting to interact with Asus support, something which from past experience fills me with dread.

    What will be interesting is how the 32MB Bios chip boards get implemented. I notice that my X470-Pro CPU support list seems to include everything from the old Excavator based Athlons and APUs with no notes of any of them being removed. Now Gamer's Nexus said rather interestingly that the older chips can only address a 16MB boot rom, so I guess it is already a done deal that Asus and MSI at least can put the boot support for old chips in the lower half of the 32MB rom (so they only see a 16MB image) and only make the newer chips attempt to address the upper portion allowing a single ROM to cover all chips. So fingers crossed this gets rolled into a standard BIOS image.

  18. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,647
    Thanks
    99
    Thanked
    215 times in 156 posts

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    I still think this is a double edged "damned if you do, damned if you don't" blade scenario.

    Sure, the reasonably justified anger towards AMD was there because they said something, realised they couldn't do it the way it needed to be done, then got pulled up on a you said this and now you're doing this?

    All this has done has moved the problem to some point in the future to the vagarity of future purchases and the secondhand market. If the manufacturers makes an x4xx board, which BIOS do they put on it? If they put an old BIOS it's not compatible with Zen 3 but if they put a new BIOS it breaks Zen/Zen+ support. All it's done is created a problem for someone else some time in the future. You want to buy that secondhand X470 Taichi board? Well you're dumb out of luck with that Zen+ processor you have!

    I agree that AMD did not play this very well, but at the same time a lot of celebration of giving AMD a black eye is being had, it's a short term victory. AMD thought they could fix the small BIOS problem before Zen 3 came out I bet, failed and had to do a restriction, the restriction did fly in the face of previous statements but for a legitimate reasonable reason.

    I get Cats comments and his crusade has been victorious and the likeness of AMDs original restriction to how Intel does things. But Intels board/chipset lockouts are for even more pathetic reasons than a BIOS chip. Frankly, i would expect AMDs turnaround was more because of the possible litigation that can be made against them.

    Oh well.

  19. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,041
    Thanks
    421
    Thanked
    386 times in 264 posts

    Re: AMD "decided to change course" with Zen 3 B450/X470 support

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphadeus View Post
    Just doesn’t seem fair that AMD are offering so much and yet still can’t get away with a cut off point on a very widely compatible product that is available at competitive prices.
    It's not that they can't get away with it, as ik9000 touched on it's that they spent years throwing rocks at Intel and then acted in a similar anti-consumer manner, if you're going to accuse someone of something you'd best be damn sure you don't do something similar down the line, if you do it comes across as hypocrisy.

    From a marketing perspective the whole support on AM4 thing was a good idea at the time but marketing probably got a bit carried away and should've talked to the technical side a bit more, they don't need to be throwing rocks at Intel any more as they have a good product so they should let it speak for itself.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •