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AMD APU powered device is built around a 7-inch screen and will ship this December.
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AMD APU powered device is built around a 7-inch screen and will ship this December.
Well she's no looker is she!?
Not a bad spec but the SSD pushing the price up out of the casual gamers reach who would no doubt bleat their way in line for a Switch anyway.
This news coincides with Elgato updating its Stream Deck product.
And below is a video with Gabe Newell in an interview, discussing the Steam Deck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FXgDAF6QpM
Apple level of storage upgrade pricing :mrgreen: I guess they had to to keep the base one competitive. Interesting toy, not entirely sure of the target market though?
As with most of steam related hardware, I cant wait to pick one up when on fire sale as they decide they don't want to do it anymore :)
If this SOC is truly custom for Valve only, then I would imagine that it must have cost a good bit.
Mask costs alone would run into tens of millions plus design and validation.
Plus yet another thing to use of scarce TSMC 7nm wafers.
Wouldn't mind if this SOC does see release as a APU although LPDDR5-only precludes AM4 so a BGA soldered thing.
I do get the appeal of these devices, but it's doomed to fail and to be a waste of money for those sucked into it.
It's already underpowered compared to even a mid level gaming PC, and whilst you will be able to tune a lot of the steam back catalog to work fine on this - it will be out of date SO quickly (within 1-2 years) as you don't have a dedicated, incentivised set of developers working to product content that will look good and work well on the device.
Contrast that with a Switch, which has even less power (by a long way), but has a 5+ year lifespan due to having that dedicated software support.
These are nice ideas, but until we have one that functions as an upgradeable form factor, I don't think they will be a success. Note that you could contrast to a laptop - since this is just a PC really - but laptops have a life long past gaming and will be suitable for web browsing/content consumption for many years to come...this won't.
Wonder if it has TPM 2.0 :)
FYI - Steam OS 3.0 is Arch Linux with a KDE Plasma desktop.
Apparently, you can quit out of Steam OS and use it as a regular PC.
Wonder if the SSD on the middle tier is replaceble?
-7-inch 1280 x 800px - Only just acceptable. At least it's not 1366x768 with dialog boxes vanishing.
-64 GB eMMC. Would be full within a month. Base Windows install and the next release downloaded = full.
I'm actually tempted.
"up to 8 hours of 30fps gaming" = 3/4 hours at 'standard' 60fps gaming? Who the heck wants to game at 30fps???
From their page: "2 - 8 hours of gameplay"
Oh. Okay.
I'll wait for reviews. Still highly tempted.
"SteamOS 3.0 (Arch-based)"
Immediately not interested. Oh well.
I love the idea. I got a switch for the on the go gameplay but found the cost of games just stopped me dead and its sat on a shelf ever since. I've since moved onto using game pass a lot - I suspect the base model would work great for game steaming (just can't get on with phone + controller). Wonder if the storage is user upgradable in the base model or being MMC is it soldier on?
It's still a PC underneath. Drop out to the Linux desktop or install something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by excalibur1814
I'm not sure how much of this is a consumer interest test product, but that's what it seems like.
You can already play a bunch of Steam games on things like the GPD models, and this is certainly smaller (possibly better) than a laptop. Steam presumably don't want to, or cannot, get into the Switch side of things, so they've made their own version?
Unless I've missed a recent GPD release this is 1) Cheaper than a GDP 2) Has dedicated gaming controls rather than trying to use a tiny keyboard 3) Has more graphics power. I've looked at the GPD devices several times but could never justify the price plus figured gaming on a little keyboard is no better than a touch screen on my phone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster
You have no proof valve isnt treating this like a game console, seeding dev kits to developers, ensuring future games have a Steam Deck profile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud1
There are more 'exclusive' games on PC then there are on the Switch which doesn't have the power to run them and the Switch is woefully out of date hardware wise but that hasn't stopped it from doing well.
If Valve have done their homework and put support teams behind this it could do very well.
1) Yes, mostly. The XD is cheaper, though not entirely comparable.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesemp
2) Several GPD models have gaming controls as well as the keyboard, and at least one has just gaming controls.
3) Doesn't surprise me.
So yes, with all the above considered, I'm not surprised Steam is seeing if their version will do any better. It wasn't a criticism or an opposition. I hope they do well.
That said, I mostly play M&KB, so having only gaming controls isn't a selling point for me.
I've not - other than they fact they are not already shouting about that with their reveal, and there have been precisely zero leaks from 3rd party developers, which is odd to say the least...I just don't think thats Valve's style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato-2
I don't get the appeal of this when you think it through logically. The hardware is already out of date, the library of games that will work on this well is not as huge as you'd think, and newer ones are not likely to run well on this sort of device. There are some scary risks too if Valve decide they want to make it a success and release their upcoming games on this - ending up gimping HL3 or something to retain compatibility..but lets hope not!
We'll have to see, but personally i'm putting this with the likes of Stadia in the "nice idea, but not ready for prime time" box.
The GPU is RDNA2,so actually supports stuff such as VRS,and potentially FSR which can be used to improve FPS(it is only a 1280X800 display,so less than half the pixels to push than a 1080p display). At lower resolutions,you can get away with lower settings,and other tweaks to the image quality. It will be interesting to see if this has some Infinity Cache too,because if it does,it might have more grunt than initially appears. It already does have around 70% more memory bandwidth than the current AMD laptop APUs.
This was news to me this morning, this evening after work & after 45 minutes of steam misadventures I slapped my €4 down. I saw some outlets questioning why valve should bother with this when current streaming services can be run from mobiles etc but they forget some people have crap internet and physical controls beat screen controls 100% of the time. Also I have a largish steam library and will enjoy the challenge of getting it to work on this tiny PC.
Anyway, reasonably sure now that Valve didn't pay for a full custom design, so would expect this to be the rumoured van Gogh APU. Which has presumably been designed to be a cheap quad core to sell in large quantities.Quote:
Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH
Zen2 + RDNA2 is a strange choice in terms of being able to reuse parts for an eventual Zen3 +RDNA2 octo core high end APU though.
The keyword is probably "cheap" as in cheap to make, so would imagine no or very very little infinity cache.
If every mm² counts, I wonder if it even has a DDR4 controller? Soldered BGA APU with soldered LDDR5 might be popular with OEMs and box shifters but is not so good for the DIY market (-:
On the other hand with that bandwidth the iGPU should be a lot faster than the more expensive Cezanne with its faster Zen3 CPU.
Maybe once 3D cache and other packaging becomes widespread, it will be possible to have the strongest CPU, plus the strongest iGPU, plus a decent amount of cache in one product instead of all this confusing product map where parts keep leap-frogging each other with different advantages.
4 cores would indicate this is probably a single CCX Zen2 design,so shouldn't suffer some of the latency issues associated with the 8 core Zen2 APUs. Maybe it's possible this could have kind of unified cache shared by both the CPU and GPU?? Since the console is only targetting 1280X800/1280X720 resolution you would need more than 16MB I suspect,as the 6600XT only has 32MB and its apparently targetted towards 1080p gaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by kompukare
It's now confirmed that all models have a 2230 m2 slot, not designed to be user serviceable but seems like it'll be possible to add storage to the base model and swap it out in the 256/512 versions.
I like the idea, I do miss my vita after all. Not sure I'd pay the asking prices though..
I feel very conflicted about this. I think it looks pretty tempting. Okay, it's not a budget item but it's not stupid-expensive either and looks pretty good value for what you get. If this gets Valve's full backing then I would expect game compatibility to be pretty good too, and they're apparently working directly with the developers of several top-ten current games to ensure no oopsiee's.
I also don't have a problem with the resolution, given the small size of the screen. It isn't supposed to be a replacement for a hairy-chested gaming mwga-rig with a screen the size of a wall. All told, and for the target market, I can see this doing really well.
I'm conflicted because, as regulars here may well remember from previous discussions) I just don't like the entire ethos of Steam, where I buy games and Steam decide if I can play then or not, and if I somehow, even accidentally, cross their T&C's they can 'terminate' my account' and completely invalidate all the games I spent loadsa money on. Well, for me, that ain't happening. My stance when Steam launched was 'not doing that', and it remains that way to this day, even if the result was/is never getting to play many leading games. And this device isn't going to change that.
So while I like both the concept and the device, well, it's Steam, innit? End-of, for me. I'll stick to DRM-free gaming. I get enough gaming that way to adequately scratch my gaming itch, and don't miss (because I don't pay attention to games until and unless they arrive on GOG, etc) anything on Steam.
From what I gather you can install other OSes,so in theory you could put Windows on it or another Linux Distro.
From what I've seen, that's true, yeah. I'd need to be convinced it'll give me a capability that justified the price to get me to do that but yeah, it's a possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH
In my case its a case of too many things I want to get,and not enough justification,budget or time to effectively use it all!Quote:
Originally Posted by Saracen999
100% with you there. I have an "indulgence" list, and unfortunately, the sum cost of the items on it significantly exceeds the available budget .... though I could knock a couple of hundred million quid off that if I shelved the 200-ft yacht idea. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH
I would still come up way short of the current estimated total cost, though. Still, I did cross the "buy a NAS" option off my list recently. The downside is I crossed a good chunk off my budget at the same time;)
Good job I have priorities. :D
Could be worse, but 2230 like 2242 or 2260 is pretty rare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_B
Rate = niche and expensive.
The numbers on the comparison sites trips the story:
Pcpartspicker:
2280 has 699 hits
2242 has 28 hits
2230 had no hits
Skinflint:
2280 has 535 hits
2242 has 16 hits
2230 has 5 hits.
Kioxia do a 1TB NVMe in 2230 but it is over £200.
Western Digital do NVMe in 2230 and the 500GB is around £95.
Better than nothing but there's really no excuse for not providing 2280. An extra 22x50x6mm (for s generous Z heigh) really isn't much space to find in such a device.
EDIT: made it clear that I mean the extra space 2280 would use compared to 2230.
Dell also do a 512 for £133 (!) which is still less than the difference between the lowest/highest devices (ignoring the different screen on the 512)
Not something for everyone but nice to know is not soldered on!
Errm - it's 22x80, hence the name. But you need space for the screw and the connector, so it's about 95mm needed. That's quite a lot of space in a device this size.Quote:
Originally Posted by kompukare
2230 will get a lot more common as they use these drives in more devices. Once upon a time 2242 were nowhere to be found either.
30fps is fine on the Switch, so I'd probably be fine with it on this. But I guess that's dependent on the game in question.Quote:
Originally Posted by excalibur1814
As for installing Windows on it, 10 would be fine but I can't see 11 working - along with the TPM requirement the 9" display as a minimum would lock this out, though the resolution is high enough that I'm sure there would be a good work-around.
But you'd lose the "Premium anti-glare etched glass" display upgrade. Without seeing them side-by-side it's impossible to know if it's worth the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_B
--
It's not for me but it's an interesting device and as a Switch & Game Gear owner portable gaming really does make sense. I think the big problem is the cost, as the base model just doesn't make sense for the same reasons that Microsoft's base Surface Go with 64GBemmc/4GB RAM didn't, vs the 128GBnvme/8GB RAM option. It's mainly to hit a price point that isn't the one you'd pay considering 4x the quantity and much faster storage isn't much of a price bump in absolute terms.
It'll certainly be interesting to see how this plays out.
Sorry, I mean extra space compared to the 2230 they have fitted. Edited my original comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by gagaga
No as it req M.2 2230 good luck with that as the 512GB model will still set you back $200Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbouk
I see the scalpers have already hit the Steam Deck, if you search eBay (UK) you'll find people trying to sell confirmed pre-orders for anything up to £1.2k.
2021 the year of chancers!Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky34
Sorry, I meant entrepreneurs the backbone of the economy, of course!
We're a few days since the announcement and the hype train is going wild...all kinds of proclamations of this being a switch killer, the next big thing, a "proper handheld console" and other similarly over excited comments.
Does anyone know why? I really don't get it. This is a low spec, low performance PC in a handheld format (portable would be generous - its rather large and is more gamegear than switch). It's not a console, it's not a new platform, or even that exciting....it's a handheld battery powered x86 PC.
Perhaps it's best feature is the value as it is a good price for what you get - can't argue with that - but is what you get any use?
I know i'm almost repeating my earlier post, but seriously - is anyone able to explain why this is such an exciting/tempting buy other than "Hype"? Are we really expecting this to be a new platform that developers target specifically?
Isn't this what people have wanted for a long time for those very reasons? It's a PC (kind of), from PS to Vita to Switch there is clearly a market for a device that is 'done right' and this *could* be that device if supported by Valve. It has limitations but surely less than any prior handheld device we've seen?
Oh, it's nothing new for 2021. It's been done for decades, but is just more visible.Quote:
Originally Posted by kompukare
I'm interested in a particular coffee grinder which sells new for £500. Trouble is, it's a smallish company and manufacturing constraints limits supply, which is less than demand. I could currently get one brand new from the manufacturer at list (in the wrong colour) but it hasn't stopped the chancers still trying to flog theirs, second-hand (though maybe unused), at £800. It's basic supply and demand ... and simple human greed, just enabled by bot-buying.
On the other side of the story, I recently ordered a 4-bay NAS and 3x hard drives (already had one). Amazon, bless 'em, put a 'maximum purchase' of TWO drives, despite it clearly being a system purchase with the 4-bay NAS. Argh.
The truly daft thing? Amazon had no problem supplying the final drive in either a slightly smaller, or slightly larger, variant, and even suggested if I wanted an identical drive, get a friend/neighbour to order it. I mean, WTF Amazon?
All depends what 'done right' looks like to the majority, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_B
One of the big ones for me is having enough space to fit my hands. Most consoles, portables and controllers just don't, so I end up with cramps within minutes.
It's just like painkillers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saracen999
Can only buy two boxes of Ibu/Para/Asp, though you can buy two of each... but you can go out the door, come straight back in, rinse and repeat as many times as you like. In fact, it's necessary to restock all my first aid kits.
I did buy a 'dispeners' pack of paracetamol some years back - a big tub about 4" square and 6" high. 1000 tablets. Only after I'd explained why I needed so many, and that I fully understood how damaging it could be if over-used/abused, though. I don'y even know if they still hav those, though, as everything seems to come in blistr packs, or paper separators.
Chia Mining, just like GPU Mining, has caused resellers to restrict large number purchases of these items. Yes, it does seem dumb it's not Amazon being dumb, you're just an unfortunate collateral damage to that policy :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Saracen999
My preferred refurbished equipment resellers have had their entire inventory of 4TB-16TB SAS/SATA HDDs wiped out when Chia kicked off and that was thousands of units.
I don't think so (at least not outside a hospital)! Its all about slowing anyone suicidal down as sometimes to save a life just requires slowing someone down enough to think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saracen999
By the way I'm just going to say this but if anyone feels this way please, please talk.
Oh, absolutely. I think that's why I had to explain why I wanted so many, which isn't worth going into now. It was years ago (probably 30) and if you had me in mind (probably not) with "anyone feeling that way", can I just say no, I'm not, but if I was I wouldn't pick paracetamol and besides, have FAR more effective drugs to hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesemp
I also completely agree with "please talk".
Oh, sure, I get the Chia thing. I bought the first drive, for testing, a day or two before the Chia thing kicked off and prices shot up and availability vanished. It was a 12TB WD Ultrastar HC520, by the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabbykatze
I understand why Amazon were doing that, and agree with it, but even when I queried it with customer service, and pointed out I was buildig the NAS I bought at the same time, they still wouldn't agree to just one more. Though they would cheerfully sell me a 16TB version, but not another 12TB, which seems a bit daft, to say the last, if not downright perverse.
"you were just buying a NAS" :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Saracen999
Bought the HDDs, sold on the NAS, Chia mined because you're a naughty miner!
I wish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabbykatze
Spent the last couple of days learning to configure the NAS how I need it. Beginning to wish I'd joined a monstery instead .... though the wife might object.
Or might not. Thinking about it, not a chance I want to take.
I'm really enjoying using TrueNAS at the moment running off of trailing edge SuperMicro hardware, very powerful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saracen999
I did think about that, but decided (rightly or wrongly) that my primary objective was to get it up and running to use it, and that I could either buy a pre-built system, or rummage up the hardware, start downloading docs and build my own. A few years ago I'd have done exactly that, but now, I want the sertvices it offers (Emby/Jeellyfin, backups, large-scale (for the home) storage, etc, and the last thing I want is to spend any time that I don't have to setting it up. Still, I ended up spending time setting it up ..... but at least it's just learning to drive it, and part of that is learning to harden it up spme. Necessary evil, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabbykatze