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Thread: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

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    Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    Leaked technical doc shows retention clip and mount-hole spacing for AM5 same as for AM4.
    Read more.

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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    Good news if correct, as my Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 should have years of life left in it, when I upgrade, hopefully next year, if AM5 CPUs can be bought for msrp...

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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    Wonder if this means AMD will keep the current OEM coolers. I picked up a wraith prism for £13 as a temporary solution for my 3600 while I saved up for something more serious but I found it did the job well so I've stuck with it. Sure it can be a little noisy when the system is being benchmarked (and AutoOC/PBO is enabled) but under normal usage its silent (I just don't seem to ever stress the CPU under day to day use).
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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    The 170W upper limit seems a tad concerning!

    Quote Originally Posted by cheesemp View Post
    Wonder if this means AMD will keep the current OEM coolers. I picked up a wraith prism for £13 as a temporary solution for my 3600 while I saved up for something more serious but I found it did the job well so I've stuck with it. Sure it can be a little noisy when the system is being benchmarked (and AutoOC/PBO is enabled) but under normal usage its silent (I just don't seem to ever stress the CPU under day to day use).
    Its not far off a CM Hyper 212 IIRC.

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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    The 170W upper limit seems a tad concerning!



    Its not far off a CM Hyper 212 IIRC.
    Why? Current crop Intels can double that....
    Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!

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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Why? Current crop Intels can double that....
    Why?? Because I don't use ATX rigs and haven't done so since 2005,and have either been on Shuttle form factor or mini-ITX systems. I have not overclocked a CPU since my Q6600. Like a few here I have a 12.7 Litre NCase M1,and my other system is a 5.7 Litre Velka 5. All the CPUs I have used in the last 9 years in my main systems have been under 70W TDP. Hence Xeon E3 CPUs,Ryzen 5 2600,Ryzen 7 3700X,etc. Most of my mates have moved over to SFF rigs. Hence,the only Intel CPU I use in a system,is a Core i5 10400(because of its IGP and I couldn't find a Ryzen 5 4650G easily),and the fact if configured to its 65W power limit,is approximately the same as a Ryzen 5 3600. Even with the GPUs I use,the RTX3060TI/RTX3070/RX6700XT/RX6800 is the max I would go upto,and even then I try and undervolt if possible,but ideallty lower while not giving up qHD performance.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 17-08-2021 at 05:01 PM.

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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Why? Current crop Intels can double that....
    Why?? Because I don't use ATX rigs and haven't done so since 2005,and have either been on Shuttle form factor or mini-ITX systems. I have not overclocked a CPU since my Q6600. Like a few here I have a 12.7 Litre NCase M1,and my other system is a 5.7 Litre Velka 5. All the CPUs I have used in the last 9 years in my main systems have been under 70W TDP. Hence Xeon E3 CPUs,Ryzen 5 2600,Ryzen 7 3700X,etc. Most of my mates have moved over to SFF rigs. Hence,the only Intel CPU I use in a system,is a Core i5 10400(because of its IGP and couldn't find a Ryzen 5 4650G easily),and the fact if configured to its 65W power limit,is approximately the same as a Ryzen 5 3600. Even with the GPUs I use,the RTX3060TI/RTX3070/RX6700XT/RX6800 is the max I would go upto,and even then I try and undervolt if possible.
    From the sounds of it, you're not going to be using a top end model that would top out at 170w anyway so not sure you're going to have an issue.

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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Why?? Because I don't use ATX rigs and haven't done so since 2005,and have either been on Shuttle form factor or mini-ITX systems. I have not overclocked a CPU since my Q6600. Like a few here I have a 12.7 Litre NCase M1,and my other system is a 5.7 Litre Velka 5. All the CPUs I have used in the last 9 years in my main systems have been under 70W TDP. Hence Xeon E3 CPUs,Ryzen 5 2600,Ryzen 7 3700X,etc. Most of my mates have moved over to SFF rigs. Hence,the only Intel CPU I use in a system,is a Core i5 10400(because of its IGP and I couldn't find a Ryzen 5 4650G easily),and the fact if configured to its 65W power limit,is approximately the same as a Ryzen 5 3600. Even with the GPUs I use,the RTX3060TI/RTX3070/RX6700XT/RX6800 is the max I would go upto,and even then I try and undervolt if possible,but ideallty lower while not giving up qHD performance.
    Oh dear. You are never going to get a 170w cpu and as per usual appear to be moaning for moanings sake....
    I do enjoy reading your posts literally moaning about everything - you really are a ray of sunshine! Instead of applauding the fact that coolers etc. can be reused you focus on 170w and nothing else and justify it by saying you don't buy above a 65w cpu which is fully supported anyway.
    Last edited by 3dcandy; 17-08-2021 at 05:05 PM. Reason: typo
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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    The 170W upper limit seems a tad concerning!
    Wild stab in the dark, but maybe they're rolling Threadripper, or their HEDT, into AM5.

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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbykatze View Post
    From the sounds of it, you're not going to be using a top end model that would top out at 170w anyway so not sure you're going to have an issue.
    Because if you saw what has happened in the last decade,if power draw at the top rises,what do you think is going to happen to the rest of the range? Just look at RKL. The power draw of the top models,per core,skyrocketed. To put it in context,a Core i5 10400 can be used in a SFF PC,but a Core i5 11400 cannot as easily,and will thermally throttle far easier. That means at lower TDPs,the CPUs will be far more clockspeed limited.Its why CML 6C CPUs benefit far less from TDP/power unlocking than RKL does,and why Intel had to beef up B560 VRMs.

    The rumours a few months ago said 24C for Zen4,which make things OK,as power/TDP per core will have stayed about the same as before. But if its a 170W TDP for 16C cores,that is 50% above the limit for the current Ryzen 9 CPUs. I just hope it isn't for a 16C model,because it probably means lower TDP models,might become more clockspeed starved. In the case of Zen2/Zen3,the difference between 65W TDP and 105W TDP models isn't huge in terms of clockspeeds. For example the 65W TDP Ryzen 7 5800 non-X isn't far off a Ryzen 7 5800X,and my mates 65W TDP Ryzen 9 3900 isn't massively lower slower than a Ryzen 9 3900X.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dcandy View Post
    Oh dear. You are never going to get a 170w cpu and
    I do enjoy reading your posts literally moaning about everything - you really are a ray of sunshine! Instead of applauding the fact that coolers etc. can be reused you focus on 170w and nothing else and justify it by saying you don't buy above a 65w cpu which is fully supported anyway.
    I don't enjoy reading your posts literally moaning about what people can and cannot say - you really are a ray of sunshine!
    Last edited by kalniel; 17-08-2021 at 06:02 PM.

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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    I would think that the 170W is mostly for crazy turbo.

    What I mean to say, is that even the 170W process if configured to 100W or so will probably lose no more than 5% performance.

    As long as configuring down to 100W (or whatever) is easy and reliable, I don't really see a problem.

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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    I am waiting for DDR5 and new CPU's, but not chomping at the bit my current computer are wayyyy overkill for what i do.
    Still a real manly man have to build himself a new PC now and then, but men like me on a pension just have to time it so it look a bit more legitimate on the spending's account.

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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    I would think that the 170W is mostly for crazy turbo.

    What I mean to say, is that even the 170W process if configured to 100W or so will probably lose no more than 5% performance.

    As long as configuring down to 100W (or whatever) is easy and reliable, I don't really see a problem.
    I doubt its for that. If the socket is configured to handle 50% more cooling/power,there must be something afoot here,because that would increase the cost of the platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Wild stab in the dark, but maybe they're rolling Threadripper, or their HEDT, into AM5.
    That actually might be a good reason.

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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    @Cat, it's a distinct possibility that they will be 24c dies as Geno docs have leaked showing they are using 12c chiplet dies and as with all of the CCDs thus far, the same ones are produced for both enterprise and desktop. So it could genuinely be 170w for a 24c model.

    Here's hoping...

    Sauce: Overclock3D and the Kittyguri leak

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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbykatze View Post
    @Cat, it's a distinct possibility that they will be 24c dies as Geno docs have leaked showing they are using 12c chiplet dies and as with all of the CCDs thus far, the same ones are produced for both enterprise and desktop. So it could genuinely be 170w for a 24c model.

    Here's hoping...

    Sauce: Overclock3D and the Kittyguri leak
    Corky suggested a merging of both AM and HEDT platforms too. That would make sense,if Intel has nothing above 16 cores. As long as per core power stays consistent that is OK for me. I just don't want it to start rising slowly like GPUs do,and its not like Intel is really an option for smaller rigs until they can sort stuff out(ADL seems to be even worse than RKL in max power).

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    Re: Current gen AMD cooler forward compatibility looks likely

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbykatze View Post
    @Cat, it's a distinct possibility that they will be 24c dies as Geno docs have leaked showing they are using 12c chiplet dies and as with all of the CCDs thus far, the same ones are produced for both enterprise and desktop. So it could genuinely be 170w for a 24c model.

    Here's hoping...

    Sauce: Overclock3D and the Kittyguri leak
    Eh?
    I though the KittYYuko leak has the config of 96 core EPYC as 12 x 8-core CCDs.

    https://twitter.com/KittyYYuko
    Hence this diagram:

    And this mock-up:


    So it looks like the one chiplet to rule them all strategy continues, even if we armchair architects might thing that their volume is NOW high enough to justify making some 12 or 16 core CCDs.

    Of course that doesn't preclude a 6950X made out of 3 x 8-core CCDs if they can squeeze it in. The IO chiplet is meant to move to 6nm after all and while IO scales poorly, it does scale.

    EDIT: that was meant to be NOW instead of "not", completely changing the meaning of the sentence.
    Last edited by kompukare; 18-08-2021 at 08:03 AM.

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