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Thread: All AMD Zen4 processors to feature iGPUs by design

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    Re: All AMD Zen4 processors to feature iGPUs by design

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    It's very rare to find anyone with a use case (normal desktop user at least) where people wanting 10+ cpu cores are running with low end gpu's, hell 90% of my software which makes use of high core counts can't even run on low end gpu's.
    I buy engineering workstations, usually with 12 or 16 cores though more would be nice. The GPU choice is "what lets me plug in two 1440p monitors" to edit lots of c++ or vhdl code on.

    I perversely have to buy X570 motherboards atm as well, because I need two PCIe x16 (well x8 really) cards and thanks to the GPU requirement that I don't really care about I end up needing *three* x16 slots which really limits the board choice.

    So as a business buyer, I'm really really liking this idea.

    Then there's the whole small server thing where I have to waste money on a GT710 just to get the thing to boot.
    There's that and also I like having iGPU for redundancy. I got used to it and it means I still have an operational PC without having to hold onto an old (often perfectly usable) GPU purely for the purposes of future troubleshooting. I like redundancy, although not at too high a cost.

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    Re: All AMD Zen4 processors to feature iGPUs by design

    The troubleshooting thing is undoubtedly nice to have.

    Also repurposing - a CPU once used for say a gaming system could later be used in an office PC or HTPC if it has integrated graphics. Its use is more limited if it needs to be paired with a GPU though.

    Even if it only ends up being quite a basic GPU similar to what we see with Intel's mainstream desktop CPUs it would tick many of those boxes. It doesn't have to compete with AMD's own flagship APU-type products, in the same way Intel have used much larger GPUs (some with eDRAM) on some of their mobile parts.

    On the other hand, maybe AMD intend to do this for their APU products too, and push further with the chiplet system? It would depend on expected yields for varying approaches, I guess, amongst other things.
    Last edited by watercooled; 24-08-2021 at 10:39 PM.

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    Re: All AMD Zen4 processors to feature iGPUs by design

    Honestly, AMD not having an iGPU nearly made me sick with Intel, my old i5-4690k saved my bacon when my 7870 died as I was able to use the (crappy) integrated graphics until my 1060 arrived, even able to play fs17 at 1080p with the settings at minimum.

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    Re: All AMD Zen4 processors to feature iGPUs by design

    Finally. Some graphics that you will be able to get your hands on...

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    Re: All AMD Zen4 processors to feature iGPUs by design

    I can see no downsides to this for all the reasons people have mentioned. More efficient for AMD, more flexibility and emergency backup for those with the chips.

    On a personal note my home media server has always had to use exclusively Intel chips because their onboard GPU enables hardware transcoding so Jellyfin can serve multiple videos to various clients simultaneously without bottlenecking. With an AMD chip I'd either need one with enough power to do it through software for multiple streams (so 8c/16t minimum which carries a premium,) or an external GPU and we all know how reasonably priced they are.

    Instead it's had multiple generations of dual core pentiums that cost circa £50 to achieve the same result.

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    Re: All AMD Zen4 processors to feature iGPUs by design

    Could do with one right now - GPU's artifacting (but at least I still get an image )

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    Re: All AMD Zen4 processors to feature iGPUs by design

    Sometimes lowering memory clocks can help with that. The difference required is often so small as to be imperceptible in gaming performance, and worthwhile trying given the current state of the GPU market.

    A friend was having fairly bad artifacting and dropping memory clocks by a really small amount completely cured the problem. I'm not the most experienced with changing GPU clocks but I think you have to keep the tweaking software running (and loading at startup) to hold the clocks down once you've found stable clocks, but someone might correct me on that. MSI Kombustor's artifact scanner helps with finding stable clocks.

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    Re: All AMD Zen4 processors to feature iGPUs by design

    I'm not seeing how this changes things much? AMD already offers APUs, and they're widely available from system builders. There's athlons to compete with dual core pentiums (they were £50 once!), and beefier 8 core chips for more demanding applications (which are available in 1L tiny/mini/micro PCs).

    It'll be nice to have a iGPU on the chiplet designs, but AFAICT the only users to benefit are mid tier workstations, mid tier servers, and enthusiasts. Education wants something real cheap? There's a whole stable of 3000 series athlons. You want something with some CPU grunt and video out? 8 core APU. Something basic with video encode/decode for a homebrew NAS? When they were in stock (and this isn't going to fix the silicon drought), athlon 3000G (I haven't looked into how good the fixed function block on that is, but it's what AMD's offering in an APU). Scan even has the 5600G and 5700G in stock right now for less than the cost of the 5600X and 5800X!

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    Thumbs up Re: All AMD Zen4 processors to feature iGPUs by design

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    Sometimes lowering memory clocks can help with that. The difference required is often so small as to be imperceptible in gaming performance, and worthwhile trying given the current state of the GPU market.

    A friend was having fairly bad artifacting and dropping memory clocks by a really small amount completely cured the problem. I'm not the most experienced with changing GPU clocks but I think you have to keep the tweaking software running (and loading at startup) to hold the clocks down once you've found stable clocks, but someone might correct me on that. MSI Kombustor's artifact scanner helps with finding stable clocks.
    Thank you, I'll have to try this. It's a very old card (560Ti) so I just thought it was on its way out - hopefully this can do something!

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    Re: All AMD Zen4 processors to feature iGPUs by design

    Quote Originally Posted by Xlucine View Post
    It'll be nice to have a iGPU on the chiplet designs, but AFAICT the only users to benefit are mid tier workstations, mid tier servers, and enthusiasts. Education wants something real cheap? There's a whole stable of 3000 series athlons. You want something with some CPU grunt and video out? 8 core APU. Something basic with video encode/decode for a homebrew NAS? When they were in stock (and this isn't going to fix the silicon drought), athlon 3000G (I haven't looked into how good the fixed function block on that is, but it's what AMD's offering in an APU). Scan even has the 5600G and 5700G in stock right now for less than the cost of the 5600X and 5800X!
    As I said earlier, a lot of it comes down to die size and volume. The 3000 series Athlons are based on Raven Ridge/Picasso silicon (depending on SKU), so a fairly large die, and the total lack of stock at retail over the past year or so suggests availability is not great. Die size and volume matter for these markets.

    5600G and above are far from the sort of budget parts you typically find in these markets, and there are plenty of Intel alternatives available for below that cost. Hence my point about AMD being effectively excluded from these markets at the moment.

    The fact the 5600G/5600X are amongst the lowest-cost parts of AMD's current stack does not make them entry level parts, not even close (Ryzen 3 3100 was released at $99 for comparison, 5600G is $259 and 5600X $299). AMD are just concentrating on the mid-high end markets at the moment with the silicon they can get their hands on, leaving the lower-end market to either previous generation parts or Intel.

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