iTunes prices set to rise under label pressure?

[directhex]

They have been raided by the authorities on request of the US FBI and record industry twice and both times been found to be operating within Russian law.

russian law is quote clear, in that it deals only with physical piracy and counterfeiting - there are no laws relating to online activities. hence how they got away with it.

The question is, would people outside of Russia be braking the law? It would seem that it's no more illegal than ordering a PSP from Japan. If you buy something legally in one country, why can't you export/bring it home?

international copyright treaties come into play here, the tracks bought from allofmp3 aren't for legal export from mother russia

[TheAnimus]

just looking at allofmp3. Would be a bit worried about using them with a credit card, but low and behold you can buy from the UK using a mobile and sms. Works out a £2 an album Might have to dig out an old sim card with a few quid on it.

The legality of it in the UK is at best questionable (bascially its not). But i belive allofmp3 give some music to the artists association or something, i'm not sure if its true. But if they give a pittence to them, it would help them keep the law on their side (as their not stealing they could argue).

But i think i might edit the name out if people start using it on my reconmendation (but would really need a mod to lock down the thread... sorry, my bad!).

Long story short, its probably illegal, you might argue its more moral than direct piracy. But please don't start doing legal things on my account. (i couldn't live with myself if britney spear's private jet dosen't have a remote control for the onboard dvd + sorround sound system).

[autopilot]

Have a read of this regarding AllOfMP3, quite interesting really. I have read countless other articles which seem to mostly draw the same conclusion; They are operating in a grey area and using a loop hole, but technically not strictly illegal (yet). At the very least, prosecution of someone using this service outside of Russia is extremely unlikely, probably impossible until the law is changed/bent in favour of the record industries wishes, as indeed it almost always is.

The US will find a way to bend/manipulate/change the law and find their own loop holes and eventually the EU/UK will follow. I can't see AllOfMP3 lasting that long, at least not at those prices. If it was unquestionably illegal it would have been closed down months ago. It is THE best music sales site on the internet ever, bar none. It's quite an incredible service being able to choose any bit rate and any format (with no DRM). The likes of Apple could learn a lot from thier model. Also, if you buy the CD at full quality FLAC then its almost the same price as a retail CD. Can't say fairer than that.

Russian copyright legislation allows phonograms to be performed publicly without the authorization of the copyright owner for broadcasting and cable transmission. (Article 39) The Internet could be deemed to fall under this exemption. The copyrights involved have to be paid to a collecting society. This is the 'loophole' that is referred to in several articles on Allofmp3....

...Allofmp3 has signed agreements for this with Russian Organization for Multimedia & Digital Systems (ROMS). According to license № ЛС-ЗМ-02-36 the Internet-project www.allofmp3.com, has the right to use musical compositions by providing downloads. Under the license agreement Allofmp3 pays out fees to ROMS for downloaded materials that are subject to the Russian Federation Copyright And Related Rights Law.

international copyright treaties come into play here, the tracks bought from allofmp3 aren't for legal export from mother russia

Are you sure about that?

Now for the country that may well have the strictest rules on copyrights, the USA. A thread in the Fatwallet forums brings some light in his confusing subject. We will not bother you with all the details. Here is a concise version of the interesting parts:

*

“MP3's, OGG's, etc are not illegal in the USA and therefore can be imported. There is also no law against importing music from other countries (including Russia). Because you are buying this legally in Russia and then importing to the USA, this should be 100% legit. For example, assuming that Russian Vodka is illegal to buy in the USA on Sunday, but you buy the Russian Vodka in Moscow on Sunday, then you import it into the USA, you have done nothing wrong. Again, this assumes that 1) it is illegal to buy Russian Vodka on Sunday in the USA 2) it is legal in Moscow and 3) it is legal to import Russian Vodka.”

Title 17 Chapter 6 Sec. 602 of the U.S. Code covers “Infringing importation of copies or phonorecords”. You can find this title here

Subsection (a) tells us:

*

“Importation into the United States, without the authority of the owner of copyright under this title, of copies or phonorecords of a work that have been acquired outside the United States is an infringement of the exclusive right to distribute copies or phonorecords under section 106, actionable under section 501.”

So it's illegal you may think. But take a close look at sub (a)(2):

*

“This subsection does not apply to importation, for the private use of the importer and not for distribution, by any person with respect to no more than one copy or phonorecord of any one work at any one time, or by any person arriving from outside the United States with respect to copies or phonorecords forming part of such person's personal baggage;”

If MP3’s, OGG’s etc are in fact considered phonorecords, U.S. citizens can legally buy these as long if they are for private use and not for distribution. If MP3s, OGG’s etc. are not considered phonorecords, no import laws apply. The sections of digital audio recording and sound recording have no mention of importation.

So in layman's terms the bottom line of this discussion is:

*

Downloading from Allofmp3 is legal for U.S. Citizens, as long as the files are for private use and not for distribution.

Full article here;

http://www.museekster.com/allofmp3fa...ofmp3%20legal?

[Swafe]

I think another major problem of downloading music is that you can spend 50 quid on a few albums and have nothing to show for it, if you buy 5 CDs, you get the cd, the case, the artwork, lyrics, and its something you treasure if its a good CD.

With itunes its nothing like that, imagine filling your ipod nano with 4gb of music, 1000 songs, 200 quid for the player then 79*1000, thats 790 quid of music, you could pay a grand for a small mp3 player if you filled it to its entirity in legally bought mp3s, thats just a tad ridiculous when you compare the 'physical goods' when you could have 100 great CDs, have them in a nice collection and theres substance to them, buying mp3s seems like buying thin air, you dont actually seem to get anything for your money.

[Funkstar]

Completely agree Swafe. I like stuff. When i spend money i like to get something physical in return.

[TheAnimus]

I think another major problem of downloading music is that you can spend 50 quid on a few albums and have nothing to show for it, if you buy 5 CDs, you get the cd, the case, the artwork, lyrics, and its something you treasure if its a good CD.

With itunes its nothing like that, imagine filling your ipod nano with 4gb of music, 1000 songs, 200 quid for the player then 79*1000, thats 790 quid of music, you could pay a grand for a small mp3 player if you filled it to its entirity in legally bought mp3s, thats just a tad ridiculous when you compare the 'physical goods' when you could have 100 great CDs, have them in a nice collection and theres substance to them, buying mp3s seems like buying thin air, you dont actually seem to get anything for your money.

More to the point, a really good friend of mine's ipod just died.

I think its easyer to loose music bought via itunes, and how can you give it as gift?

I gave one of my favourate CDs to a friend before (she'd never heard it before) and there was obvious sentimental value attached to that. With the more restrictive license you get, penalised, charged more, and no choice about format.

[menthel]

The loss problem is inherent in all of these systems, especially if backing up is difficult, although iTunes stuff can be backed up 4 times if I remember correctly. You can also buy gift vouchers on iTunes. I still far prefer the real thing, mind you!

[TheAnimus]

Gift vouchers, like cash, only not quite as good.

Is it more or does it defeat the point of a present?

[siuron]

i strongly support this too

[Swafe]

Infact, I hope they do this.

Maybe then when piracy increases to stupid levels, the money grabbing music companies will realise what tight titties they are and how they've wreaked their billion doller market by peeing consumers off.

[Funkstar]

Do you really expect them to make that conclusion? I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

[Swafe]

Nope, but I like to hope they will

[specofdust]

Infact, I hope they do this.

Maybe then when piracy increases to stupid levels, the money grabbing music companies will realise what tight titties they are and how they've wreaked their billion doller market by peeing consumers off.

The simple fact is though, that they wont ever have to lower prices, because piracy isn't affecting them. In fact, their profits are still rising quarterly, and have been doing so for quite a few years. The idea that piracy actually makes any serious impact on sales is a false one, which has been proven wrong time and time again.

[Swafe]

It might have an affect, maybe the album sales are rising dramatically, and due to piracy offsetting it are only rising slightly each quarter.

[Funkstar]

See thats the thing, piracy doesn't actually cost the record companies anything, they just fail to make the profit. Which, if you believe the industry figures, is a surprisingly small percentage of the retail value of a CD *caugh* yeah right, b@lls to that *caugh*

It's not like someone walking into a store a slipping a handfull of CDs under their jumper, that really does cost someone real cash money.

there has also been studies (conducted by organisations far more indipendant than the ones the RIAA et al hire to produce their stats) that say downloading music (this was in the days of the original Napster) actually increases album sales to those that wouldn't normally have bought the album, because they can try it out first and people recomend music more, because it is easier.

Another little thing that the industry likes to forget, is a large percentage of the people illegally downloading tracks are the same poeple that would have just copied a friends tape or CD. They are not loosing a sale because that sale wouldn't have happened in the first place. say piracy "costs" the industry $1billion a year (figure i made up). If piracy didn't exist, the industry wouldn't suddenly get that $1billion, because a lot of those "lost" sales would never happen anyway.