Legal team get involved in WOW's gay rights issue

[Kaine (AoD)]

I have to question what the point of a gay guild is all about.... I mean, why bother?

Does anyone work in an office where the homosexuals and lesbians have all gathered over in one corner to do their work?

Is there a segregated canteen with signs above the table saying 'The Pink Corner' or 'No carpet munching on the tables'?

I can't see what all the fuss is about... so what, you're gay... well done... Now let's get in there and take on the mobs...

What's that? You're a woman who wears comfortable shoes? Right, at least if we meet in the real world that saves me trying to buy you drinks and chat you up all night... now can we get on and take down this bloody great monstie please?

The point is, once again, that if straight AND gay people BOTH truly wanted to act as normal, civilized human beings, this would even BE an issue, becuase no-one would actually care.

There is such a thing as self-segregation... and, just like having a pub called the Pink Punter, for gays, lesbians and transexuals, having a gay guild does nothing but serve to reinforce the idea that gay people are 'different' in more areas than their sexuality, which, to be frank, they're not.

Nuff said, Nick pwns everyone once again IMO everything there is to why this cannot be done in a game like WoW, hence why we cannot create set guilds for "real life" situations in this game like gays or different religions.

[TiG]

I can see your point, but i can't agree with it.

The reason there are gay pubs and clubs is becasue if two men or women were to go into a lot of places in this country and start kissing each other they would stand a fairly high chance of getting some abuse. Calling a pub the pink punter indicates it's a safe place for gay people to go and shows anyone who doesn't like the idea to keep clear. It doesn't mean straight people can't go there or will be frowned upon, just that the place is gay FRIENDLY, just like this guild. I'm straight, and when i've been to gay pubs/clubs noone has ever had a problem with it. On the other hand I've known people shouted at in the street simply because their clothes looked a bit camp.

While you are completely right about this, the whole discussion is about an Online MMORPG, where this sort of self segregation as Nick coined it, is Just completely unnecessary.

TiG

[Mimp]

While you are completely right about this, the whole discussion is about an Online MMORPG, where this sort of self segregation as Nick coined it, is Just completely unnecessary.

You may well be right, I've not played WoW which is why i didn't comment on the rest of his post, just the line about the pub. However, I can't help feeling if there were no issues of this sort in a MMORPG the T+Cs wouldn't feature that line in the first place.

[TiG]

Mimp, having played WoW for months, and been involved in beta of it, i can simply state that it is a management issue. The thing that causes more bother than anything else is abuse of anything in the main chat channel.

Be that someone continually asking Where is THIS?, or I can't find X, or whatever it is, people will generally get pissed off with people after a while, they will tell them to shut up.

Abuse will start and then the main chat will be full of people slagging off one another. The same appeared to be true for advertising of LGBT guilds. We're talking an environment where not everyone has reached a mature level. So blizzards T&C's allow them to ban things that will lead to these main chat problems.

Its a virtual game and as such isn't infringing anyone's rights as you had to agree to the T&C's to sign up. There is a specific line which does not allow the advertisement of items of a sexual nature. Be that LGBT or anything else like S&M.

Its not to stop gay guilds, its just to stop advertising that causes an in game problem to all users. It was one of the most annoying things to have the main chat spammed to death by arguing little brats while you were trying to play the game.

I'm really suprised these people are taking the issue this far, as to be honest i think the only thing that will happen with this, is that their guilds and the LGBT community in general in WoW will suffer from it.

Sad to say but thats what in my opinion is going to happen.

TiG

[Fourdee]

Well it was only a matter of time before Americas litigation legacy crawled it's way into a new arena.

I don't understand why people would want to drag real life issues into an online game and it's a fact that many of the companies want to avoid purely because of the trouble it can cause.

All players when they sign up to an online game accept the terms and conditions of play (what do you mean you skip reading that bit?) and yes that means Blizzard sets the rules.

In all sense and purposes this could explode into a preverbial can of worms. If this action succeeds then every other online game is going to get similar writs made against them because the players are shouting that their sexual or religious beliefs aren't being addressed and accepted.

Then what are you going to get? isolated groups fragmented in a virtual world that mirrors the real world.

I've played online games (yes with gay people too!) and never once have they held up their (virtual) hands shouting they're not being allowed to express themselves. They were open about it but they didn't actively force the fact and as such mixed socially as much as anyone else.

Heck following this we will probably find little virtual lawyers wandering around online waiting around for someone to be harrassed or injured so they can tout their services. "I fell off a dragon at work and the accident helpline won me 100,000 gp". Yes, this is made in jest but you get the idea.

Where will it all end?

I had to signup to this discussion just so I could agree with everything Shazbot has said. People are taking their belief/religion/private and person information into the wrong envoriment (games).

If i was to log on warcraft, make a guild called "F the jews", then make up a law in america to say that Nazi's "have their own feelings and opinions and should not be discriminated". Would i not be doing the same thing as these Gay/lesbian people?

I have nothing against gays as long as they dont try anything (lesbians can do what they want )

But as shazbot said, if people bring their real life (be it problems or not) situations that some may not agree with or may cause agro (the little kids who thinks gays are funny), will just make matters worse and we could end up with people being sued in games at the age of 12.

Real life = Real life
Gaming = Gaming (not real life)

kinda going on a bit, shazbot's post is spot on, fair play

[Mike Fishcake]

Whilst mostly agreeing with the "keep real life in real life" opinion, I just need to say something about the "if i started a straight only group i'd be accused of being a homophobe" crowd.

That's because it's a different situation and needs to be treated differently. Gays are discriminated against by a lot of society. Straight people aren't (ok maybe with a tiny, tiny, miniscule minority, but nothing even remotely significant). You don't get pissed-up gay blokes on a night out shouting "Oi! Skirt lifter! I'll smack your head in, you f***ing downhill gardener!! " You don't get organisations specifically set up to try and campaign against straight people. You don't get famous gay people "outed" as straight people in front page tabloid news.

Despite what a lot of people might think, gay people are still discriminated against a lot. There has been a lot of improvement, of course, but society as a whole is nowhere near treating gay people exactly as straight people.

[Steven W]

Wise move I think, nips it in the bud before it gets out of control.

"Blizzard Entertainment, developers of hit MMORPG World of Warcraft, have officially apologized to a player in the game over a warning one of the game masters issued to a player for recruiting members to a gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender-focused guild.

The developer sought to make amends to player Sara Andrews, who was threatened with a ban for recruiting on the grounds that it was insulting speech. The GM informed Andrews that her use of the term "GLBT" was in violation of Blizzard's policies, despite her using it to refer to her guild as "GLBT-friendly."

According to In Newsweekly, a GLBT newspaper, the company will be holding sensitivity training seminars with its GMs in North America, Europe, and Korea to prevent similar incidents in the future. The company will also be adding a guild-specific chat channel to the game, so that players can advertise their guilds away from the game's general chatter.

"I would like to believe that this has always been Blizzard's policy and that this entire issue could have easily been avoided by better training of Blizzard's various representatives, especially as applies to sensitive issues such as race, religion, and sexuality," said player Dan Brewer. "My guild and I anxiously await the clarifications of the ToS that have been promised. I sincerely hope that they live up to our expectations and we can continue playing as we wish in a diverse fantasy realm."

[bertie]

Completely agree with Nick on this one.
But i'll still be interested to see how blizzard react the money grabbing bastids!
I can't believe they only just recently decided to buy new servers for WoW - Oh wait yes I can