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About LinkBackswhats wrong with a cheap core 2 build?Originally Posted by Splash
whats wrong with a cheap core 2 build?
Because phenom II are cheaper for the same performance, or better performance for the same price.whats wrong with a cheap core 2 build?
Nothing... in the same way with these new AMD chips i cant see there being anything wrong with a cheap build using them. There is still the 2 and 3 core versions yet to come out and the no doubt imminent midrange price battle.
really? i thought they was priced the same. maybe cheaper for "existing AMD users" but is it cheaper for say umm the person who said he wants to upgrade his folks p4 machine? p4 meaning pentium 4 right?
and then their is still the i5's to come out. the cycle continues until either intel does nothing for a year or AMD start pushing harder for a better product that rivals anything intel has to offer(cant wait for that day to come )
Maybes it is cheaper for people looking to upgrade from P4... you have to look at it as overall costs because we dont know how expensive AM3 or i5 motherboards will be. Baring in mind the i5 is likely to be a cutback X58 chipset and and the AM3 will be an updraded 790 chipset its quite difficult to say which will be cheaper at the moment. At the moment Q series and P2 overall costs are looking pretty much the same for similar performance.really? i thought they was priced the same. maybe cheaper for "existing AMD users" but is it cheaper for say umm the person who said he wants to upgrade his folks p4 machine? p4 meaning pentium 4 right?
and then their is still the i5's to come out. the cycle continues until either intel does nothing for a year or AMD start pushing harder for a better product that rivals anything intel has to offer(cant wait for that day to come )
Another thing to remember is the AM3 chips have both DDR2 and 3 controllers built into them so they will work for both people wanting to buy new chipsets and those using old chipsets which is a bonus Intel cant boast.
AMD have another chip in the pipeline; 'bulldozer'. Who's to say that wont be a huge step forward? even bigger than i7/5 and whatever else intel have in early stage, who knows? If you where not a fanboy then maybe you should give them the benefit of the doubt here. Just because Intel is ahead overall now doesnt mean they will continue to be produce products which are miles ahead of AMD.
This is all educated speculation of course but my point is... give AMD a break they have taken a real step in the right direction here and whilst it may not be top end competition its competition for intel non the less.
Core i5 uses a completely different type of motherboard to the X58 - chipsets won't be at all similar. With core i5 you wire the graphics channels directly to the CPU, like you do the memory on i7 and AMD.Baring in mind the i5 is likely to be a cutback X58 chipset and and the AM3 will be an updraded 790 chipset its quite difficult to say which will be cheaper at the moment.
I assume thats aswell as the integrated memory controller?
Your point suggests that will have added extra development time and technology therefore most likely extra cost.
Yup.
Hence why it wasn't released at the same time as i7. But it's only R&D cost - that doesn't really get passed on to customers on a per unit basis - the whole point of it is to drive down per unit manufacturing costs, so in the end it should be cheaper for us.Your point suggests that will have added extra development time and technology therefore most likely extra cost.
I hear josh's point on this one, Intel can quite easily drop prices and continue to maintain leadership in all price-ranges for the forseeable future. I doubt Intel will allow AMD to slip ahead anytime soon, not after the market lead they've had. It's quite pointless to argue that AMD now has any kind of market leadership because they don't and this Phenom II isn't going to change much.
But even so, I think my next build will be AMD based partly on the fact that they have a competitive product out now and mainly on juvenile fanboyism. Like, I'm sure, many of you are, I'm waiting for an AMD ressurection with AM3 and/or bulldozer! I guess PhII has made a difference...
Can they though? Intel's sucess is their own worst enemy. They have had years of good revenue and companies with strong revenue can loose focus on their own costs. That coupled with the expectations of a good return by their shareholders may put them in a position where price cuts are not particularly attractive to them. Don't forget they have had to revise their earnings forcast downwards recently, with their current pricing.
Of course they may announce massive price cuts on Monday and make me look like a complete idiot
Looking at scan i see the prices listed on hexus are the exVAT prices, or is this just release day pricing soon to come down?
Looking at the review the Phenom II 920 was slightly slower than the Q9300 in single-threaded tests, but slightly faster in the multi-threaded tests. Given that it alledgedly has a lower price point than the Q9300, I guess the bang-4-buck is dependant on the kind of workload you're pushing through the chip...
As several other people have pointed out AMD have a new ground-up architecture coming, but (as I have pointed out) AMD simply don't have the money to spend on R&D that Intel have. So Intel should be able to own the enthusiast / performance segment of the market for as long as they want (and charge whatever they want into the bargain). That may simply be something that AMD and their fanboys (a group I include myself in) have to put up with.
However, for the 95% of the desktop market that doesn't have the money to buy a technology that costs > £600 for the subsystem, AMD now offer a decently performing chip, as well as a well-priced and massively well featured platform to run it in.
I notice the article has now been amended to readAm I misreading the graphs? Because I'd've thought it was rather more interesting that the Phenom II 920 managed to beat the Q9300 in all the multithreaded benchmarks...
Always pleased to be of helpInterestingly, the Phenom II 940 and 920 have the beating of the £200 Core 2 Quad
http://66.102.9.102/translate_c?hl=d...tXi9W22ZwibWcQLooking at the review the Phenom II 920 was slightly slower than the Q9300 in single-threaded tests, but slightly faster in the multi-threaded tests. Given that it alledgedly has a lower price point than the Q9300, I guess the bang-4-buck is dependant on the kind of workload you're pushing through the chip...
As several other people have pointed out AMD have a new ground-up architecture coming, but (as I have pointed out) AMD simply don't have the money to spend on R&D that Intel have. So Intel should be able to own the enthusiast / performance segment of the market for as long as they want (and charge whatever they want into the bargain). That may simply be something that AMD and their fanboys (a group I include myself in
However, for the 95% of the desktop market that doesn't have the money to buy a technology that costs > £600 for the subsystem, AMD now offer a decently performing chip, as well as a well-priced and massively well featured platform to run it in.
wow i hope thats correct
IF those price cuts appear, and IF they are mirrored in the $ - £ conversions, it'll certainly make things very interesting in the mid-range. If my suspicions are accurate, higher clocked Phenom IIs will come out in the future, pushing the price of the 920 and 940 down. But frankly, as several other people have said, I'll take anything that makes the mid-range cheaper *and* with a wider range of options - and that is undoubtedly what Phenom II has done. No, it's not got the performance challenge we'd like to see in the enthusiast range, but that's NOT surprising because Core 2 was such a big leap forward itself.
I did some more research and Athlons actually started selling in 1999, outperforming the incumbent P3, and continued to be (arguably) the best processors available until mid-2006 when Core 2 was released. To be fair, Intel were closer to the Athlon than AMD now is to Core i7, but it took Intel 7 years to surpass Athlon, and over a year and a half (when P4 replaced P3) to get anywhere close. In that respect, the fact the Phenom II can compete with Core 2 indicates that AMDs processor development is getting back on track; unfortunately, Intel have accelerated their development cycle to have their next gen processor out maybe 3 years earlier than would previously be expected. That's gonna be hard for AMD to combat.
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