Nvidia Titan X (Pascal)

[kalniel]

I don't need to - look at the revenue streams for many devs,the shift is quite obvious. More and more PC exclusives are moving to console. Even in the real world I am seeing more and more people shifting to consoles.

That's very few studios by number though - the PC market is now suffused with many smaller teams outputting great games. They're not PC exclusive by marketing arrangement, but many are only available on PC because it's still the cheapest and easiest platform to develop for. We've even got formerly console exclusive studios now releasing on PC!

I don't agree since that generation of people is not the same now - they don't care about openess and technical flexibility. Things are going towards more and more wall gardened approaches. The PC is moving that way too. Consoles can do pretty much what a PC can do for gaming at lower cost,and with less fiddling. Remember,most people buy prebuilt PCs so the cost is even higher than for us oldies.

The shift in more and more PC centric devs to consoles,indicates where the real money is - and also mobile gaming.

Why bother with a large and heavy desktop which needs fiddling about when a console can play all of those games anyway?? Or when your phone can play games anywhere- as an Ingress player I can fully understand why Pokemon Go is so popular and fits into the whole social media thing quite well.

Because of the openness and ease to develop for PC. Android phone is getting close, and as a result also sees a lot of indie development, but it's nothing like as easy or open as the PC is.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

And nvidia's gross margins in 2007 were 51%. Not so very different from their current margins. You can't look at product pricing in isolation. nvidia are not selling a $250 at $600. They're selling a $600 card.

Wrong:

https://ycharts.com/companies/NVDA/gross_profit_margin



Funny how all the 20% to 30% rise in prices has reflected the margin increase over the last few years.

The fact is there margins are going up and up and that indicates they are overcharging for cards - no amount of deflecting changes the fact nearly 60% margins are huge and it is gamers paying for it.

Apple has a margin of nearly 40% FFS.

Edit!!


April 30, 2016 57.55%
Jan. 31, 2016 56.46%
Oct. 31, 2015 56.25%
July 31, 2015 54.99%
April 30, 2015 56.73%
Jan. 31, 2015 55.88%
Oct. 31, 2014 55.18%
July 31, 2014 56.12%
April 30, 2014 54.76%
Jan. 31, 2014 54.15%
Oct. 31, 2013 55.45%
July 31, 2013 55.82%
April 30, 2013 54.32%
Jan. 31, 2013 52.90%
Oct. 31, 2012 52.87%
July 31, 2012 51.78%
April 30, 2012 50.10%

Compare to the days of the 8800GTX,etc:

Jan. 31, 2008 45.70%
Oct. 31, 2007 46.21%
July 31, 2007 45.33%
April 30, 2007 45.03%
Jan. 31, 2007 43.89%
Oct. 31, 2006 40.70%

This is when ATI had really nothing to compete with with the HD2000 and HD3000 series.

Its not the price increases which are the issue but the SCALE of them.

Edit!!

Also as a person who has owned quite a few midrange cards,they are getting weaker and weaker now.

More and more people are spending more - many of you poo-pooed me when I said these elite tiers of cards are mainly there to jack up the price tiers.

I am not the only one to notice - one or two of my other mates noticed it even before me with all the rebadging AMD and Nvidia have done.

Enthusiasts sales have doubled now,and even AMD exploited the Titan effect with the Fury series. The Hawaii based cards average price went up due to the elite range launched.

Edit!!

Another metric for people saying poor Nvidia has to up prices due to the market being smaller:

https://ycharts.com/companies/NVDA/revenues

April 30, 2016 1.305B
Jan. 31, 2016 1.401B
Oct. 31, 2015 1.305B
July 31, 2015 1.153B
April 30, 2015 1.151B
Jan. 31, 2015 1.251B
Oct. 31, 2014 1.225B
July 31, 2014 1.103B
April 30, 2014 1.103B
Jan. 31, 2014 1.144B
Oct. 31, 2013 1.054B
July 31, 2013 977.24M
April 30, 2013 954.74M
Jan. 31, 2013 1.107B
Oct. 31, 2012 1.204B
July 31, 2012 1.044B
April 30, 2012 924.88M

April 30, 2008 1.153B
Jan. 31, 2008 1.203B
Oct. 31, 2007 1.116B
July 31, 2007 935.25M
April 30, 2007 844.28M
Jan. 31, 2007 878.87M
Oct. 31, 2006 820.57M

If you look at the revenue numbers over time,Nvidia is not only upping margins massively,but more important making even larger revenues.

Add the billions lost by Tegra,they are raking it in over the last 5 to 6 years.

This is the same time when they actually started selling smaller and smaller dies for massive amounts of money.

But,but we must pay more.

Plus it even gets better:

https://ycharts.com/companies/NVDA/cash_on_hand

April 30, 2016 4.754B
Jan. 31, 2016 5.037B
Oct. 31, 2015 4.728B
July 31, 2015 4.505B
April 30, 2015 4.792B
Jan. 31, 2015 4.623B
Oct. 31, 2014 4.241B
July 31, 2014 4.386B
April 30, 2014 4.348B
Jan. 31, 2014 4.672B
Oct. 31, 2013 3.033B
July 31, 2013 2.936B
April 30, 2013 3.713B
Jan. 31, 2013 3.728B
Oct. 31, 2012 3.435B
July 31, 2012 3.278B
April 30, 2012 3.131B


April 30, 2008 1.153B
Jan. 31, 2008 1.203B
Oct. 31, 2007 1.116B
July 31, 2007 935.25M
April 30, 2007 844.28M
Jan. 31, 2007 878.87M
Oct. 31, 2006 820.57M

That is how much Nvidia has in Cash and Short Term Investments. If you even subtract the money Intel has given them,they are sitting on more and more money. Even if you look at the increases in sales marketshare,it does not even explain it either.

Yes,we need to pay even more for cards.

So to recap:
1.)Revenue is increasing
2.)Margins are increasing
3.)Cash and investments are increasing
4.)Graphics cards pricing is increasing
5.)Smaller and smaller dies are being sold for bigger and bigger prices.

So how does the enthusiast react - CHARGE MOAR MONEY!! We need to pay MOAR!!

How about,Nvidia you are taking the mickey?? Nah,can't have that.

I fully expect the GTX2060 to be a $300 to $350 card when it is released now. The RX580 will only be $275 to $325.

Rollo and co won with their marketing.

We are utterly screwed - even AMD does not want to be seen as the budget brand,so once they get their act together,wait and see. They will do the same.

Best to have a pricing cartel than actually overly compete - its far more profitable longterm.

Nvidia is laughing all the way to the bank whilst their customers have made XYZ excuses for being charged more.

Shame UK dairy farmers don't get the same love.

Nvidia would make a mint if they farmed out their marketing to Apple and Samsung.

At this rate I might as well buy a blasted console,just like so many other former PC gamers I know.

I am out of this thread now - none of you should complain with the bigger and bigger prices we will be paying for meh performance increases over time. AMD is not going to save any of us - they want some of what Nvidia are getting. Why wouldn't they??

You reap what you sow.

Here's the crux.

8800 GTX on launch: $599+
8800 GTS on launch: $349+

8800 Ultra on launch: $829+


So maybe the 1080 ($699), 1070 ($449) and 1060 ($299) aren't so stupidly priced after all...

Modern GPU pricing is not so far ahead of ten year old pricing - the $599 for the 8800 GTX equates to $696 accounting for inflation. The 1080 and 1070 pricing is in the same ballpark as 8800 GTX and 8800 GTS on launch once you inflate the prices to 2016 (using http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/). You can think they should be cheaper all you want, but the numbers don't really back that up.

Wrong again - on purpose trying to ignore the Titan X and making excuses for the $1200 price is funny. You can desparately ignore the Titan SKU as much as you want,but even your own numbers have contradicted you.

With inflation and VAT(remember VAT went up too),the 8800GTX would be £637. Even the Ultra would be £700. Even the Ultra was a minimal clockspeed increase but a fully enabled chip.

The Titan X is £1100. Look at the USD increase - $1200 from $700.

The equivalent of the 8800GTS 640 would be the GTX1080TI.

You are proving my entire point exactly - the elite range has warped what people think of the cards under it.

I wonder with a £1100/£1200 Titan X,what the GTX1080TI would cost - I expect $700 to $750 at least.

Excuse making by PC enthusiasts is why we are in this situation.

I never have seen such excuse making even for Apple products and that is saying something.



Edit!!!

Please,please,pretty please don't get into photography.

My FF Nikon cost 1/5 the price of the ones a decade.

If you had your way I would never have even have been able to afford one,let alone any dSLR.

Second Edit!!

Also since you seem to be changing your argument in weird and wonderful ways to justify the $1200 Titan X,I think we are done here!

Like I said yonks ago when the Titan was released,I knew what would happen. Seems to be happening.

Ciao.

[shaithis]

You are proving my entire point exactly - the elite range has warped what people think of the cards under it.

Or that's your perception of it at least.....

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

That's very few studios by number though - the PC market is now suffused with many smaller teams outputting great games. They're not PC exclusive by marketing arrangement, but many are only available on PC because it's still the cheapest and easiest platform to develop for. We've even got formerly console exclusive studios now releasing on PC!

Because of the openness and ease to develop for PC. Android phone is getting close, and as a result also sees a lot of indie development, but it's nothing like as easy or open as the PC is.

Because with consoles standidising on more and more standard hardware,even those indie devs will target consoles more and more. Add phones into the mix,and I know people who make mobile games and apps for a living. In fact iOS due to the wall gardened approach is easier to develop for and I can see why consoles are being more and more of target.

People are looking at the shorter term blips as hardware enthusiasts and PC gamers have to spend more and more to keep up. But the problem is whether this is sustainable longterm,say in 5 maybe 10 years time.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Or that's your perception of it at least.....

Wrong again - on purpose trying to ignore the Titan X and making excuses for the $1200 price is funny. You can desparately ignore the Titan SKU as much as you want,but even your own numbers have contradicted you.

With inflation and VAT(remember VAT went up too),the 8800GTX would be £637. Even the Ultra would be £700. Even the Ultra was a minimal clockspeed increase but a fully enabled chip.

The Titan X is £1100. Look at the USD increase - $1200 from $700.

The equivalent of the 8800GTS 640 would be the GTX1080TI.

You are proving my entire point exactly - the elite range has warped what people think of the cards under it.

I wonder with a £1100/£1200 Titan X,what the GTX1080TI would cost - I expect $700 to $750 at least.

Excuse making by PC enthusiasts is why we are in this situation.

I never have seen such excuse making even for Apple products and that is saying something.

GTX580= Titan X
GTX570 = GTX1080TI
GTX560TI= GTX1080
GTX560= GTX1070
GTX550TI= GTX1060

It has.

Despite all the evidence to the contrary,you still want prices to increase and looking at how much a few of you want it,it just shows the problems of weak,excuse making consumerism.

This is why pricing has gone up - only down to people like you and your mates making excuses for the pricing.

So now we have people justifying the $1200 price of the Titan X and the probably $700+ of the GTX1080TI as normal.

Even attempts at trying to justify are failing miserably.

Its almost like some of you are terrified to admit the Titan X is where the the GTX580 or 8800GTX were years ago.

It shows you the power of rebadging and marketing.

This is why we are in this situation - excuse making from hardware enthusiasts who for some weird reason want JHH to get another sports car.

So to recap:
1.)Revenue is increasing
2.)Margins are increasing
3.)Cash and investments are increasing
4.)Graphics cards pricing is increasing
5.)Smaller and smaller dies are being sold for bigger and bigger prices.

So how does the enthusiast react - CHARGE MOAR MONEY!! We need to pay MOAR!!

How about,Nvidia you are taking the mickey?? Nah,can't have that.

The question is why some of you are so DESPERATE to justify a $1200 card or the general increases in pricing which are well beyond inflation,VAT or even addtional expenses.

So basically that is hours at work you have given for free to JHH.

Is he like the new Steve Jobs? Not sure Jobs could quite pull off people wanting Apple to increase prices.

He is better than Jobs. Jobs was a newb it seems.

LMAO.

Edit!!

Please,please,please can a few of you not bother with other stuff too.

I don't fancy things like cameras,phones,etc going up by stupid amounts due to excuse making whilst companies are raking it in.

Please just concentrate on computers,pretty please.

Apple would love to charge double for their next iPhone and so would Samsung. Please,don't give them ideas.

I don't fancy my next phone being over £400.

Second Edit!!

I predict the replies to this and my previous post:

"But,but prices have to increase and I want to justify paying more for less in anyway possible so you are WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!".

Now I am off to calibrate my camera which cost 1/5 the cost of one in inflation adjusted terms to one 10 years ago(and is massively better) on a lense which cost a fraction of what the equivalent cost in the 1970s,with a CF tripod which costs massively less in inflation adjusted terms than one 20 years ago and is much better.

BTW,don't get into photography since it's totally RUBBISH(honest). Its entirely NOT cool and if you walked into a bar and said you had dual Titan X cards and a Core i7 5960X,all the girls and guys would most definitely collapse at the size of your......!



Ciao!

[scaryjim]

GTX580= Titan X
GTX570 = GTX1080TI
GTX560TI= GTX1080
GTX560= GTX1070
GTX550TI= GTX1060

...

Don't be ridiculous CAT, you're better than this. If the GTX 1080 was really equivalent to the GTX 560 Ti nvidia's gross margins would be over 300%. Since they're not, we can safely assume that your comparisons don't hold water.

I predict the replies to this and my previous post:

"But,but prices have to increase and I want to justify paying more for less in anyway possible so you are WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!".

The GTX 1070 launch price is $200 cheaper than the 980 Ti launch price. The GTX 1070 is around 10% faster on average than the GTX 980 Ti (per TPU).

But please don't let either of those facts disuade you that people are having to pay more for less.

[kalniel]

I'm kind of tempted to buy an nVidia card now. My journey to the dark side will be complete

Perhaps not a titan though.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Don't be ridiculous CAT, you're better than this. If the GTX 1080 was really equivalent to the GTX 560 Ti nvidia's gross margins would be over 300%. Since they're not, we can safely assume that your comparisons don't hold water.



The GTX 1070 launch price is $200 cheaper than the 980 Ti launch price. The GTX 1070 is around 10% faster on average than the GTX 980 Ti (per TPU).

But please don't let either of those facts disuade you that people are having to pay more for less.

Your the one being entirely ridiculous - you should do better than this. By selectively quoting bits and on purpose ignoring all the information you are sticking your head in the sand since the "facts" don't support your argument of desperately wanting to pay more. This is why prices have gone up MASSIVELY because of excuse makers like YOU.

The Titan X is a 471MM2 die chip at $1200. The GTX580 was a 500MM2 at $500. Even with inflation adjustment that is $550.

So over double with margins having gone up by nearly 25% - money in the bank over doubled,revenue gone up. That is why you are desperately backtracking on everything. You have zero answer to that. The margins are not flat.

So many other products don't do the same but hardware enthusiasts get deceived hook,line and sinker and then go into deflection mode and to try and justify things.

The question is WHY you are so terrified at asking why Nvidia needs those 60% margins with 4+ billion dollars in the bank which has tripled since the 8800GT days.

Expects excuse making for $1200 Titan X price in 3.....2.....1!

I'm kind of tempted to buy an nVidia card now. My journey to the dark side will be complete

Perhaps not a titan though.

Meh,had a GTX660 and GTX960 - but it just shows the mentality of hardware enthusiasts where people are so desperate to justify a $1200 card that you would rather cut off your nose to spite your foot.

This is what the hardware enthusiast category has become. More about E-PEEN and justifying companies making more money and not what is correct for the consumer.

The mass apathy has lead to weak consumers who just accept what companies sell them instead of challenging what they are selling to you.

Its the dog in the manger attitude from hardware enthusiasts which is costing everybody more money in the end. This is what is annoying.

Any company which has its own consumers justifying massive price increases have lost the battle fully.

You are more worried by what companies dictate to you than anything else.

As a result you really have no reason to justify the price INCREASE of ANYTHING out there now - be it food,housing,transport or anything. That would make you a hypocrite - any company and any industry has as much right as a poxy graphics card company in increasing prices.

Reap what you sow.

Second Edit!!

To show how hilarious the excuse making has become.

Margins

April 30, 2016 57.55%
Jan. 31, 2016 56.46%
Oct. 31, 2015 56.25%
July 31, 2015 54.99%
April 30, 2015 56.73%
Jan. 31, 2015 55.88%
Oct. 31, 2014 55.18%
July 31, 2014 56.12%
April 30, 2014 54.76%
Jan. 31, 2014 54.15%
Oct. 31, 2013 55.45%
July 31, 2013 55.82%
April 30, 2013 54.32%
Jan. 31, 2013 52.90%
Oct. 31, 2012 52.87%
July 31, 2012 51.78%
April 30, 2012 50.10%

Compare to the days of the 8800GTX,etc:

Jan. 31, 2008 45.70%
Oct. 31, 2007 46.21%
July 31, 2007 45.33%
April 30, 2007 45.03%
Jan. 31, 2007 43.89%
Oct. 31, 2006 40.70%

Revenue per quarter

April 30, 2016 1.305B
Jan. 31, 2016 1.401B
Oct. 31, 2015 1.305B
July 31, 2015 1.153B
April 30, 2015 1.151B
Jan. 31, 2015 1.251B
Oct. 31, 2014 1.225B
July 31, 2014 1.103B
April 30, 2014 1.103B
Jan. 31, 2014 1.144B
Oct. 31, 2013 1.054B
July 31, 2013 977.24M
April 30, 2013 954.74M
Jan. 31, 2013 1.107B
Oct. 31, 2012 1.204B
July 31, 2012 1.044B
April 30, 2012 924.88M

April 30, 2008 1.153B
Jan. 31, 2008 1.203B
Oct. 31, 2007 1.116B
July 31, 2007 935.25M
April 30, 2007 844.28M
Jan. 31, 2007 878.87M
Oct. 31, 2006 820.57M

Cash and investments

April 30, 2016 4.754B
Jan. 31, 2016 5.037B
Oct. 31, 2015 4.728B
July 31, 2015 4.505B
April 30, 2015 4.792B
Jan. 31, 2015 4.623B
Oct. 31, 2014 4.241B
July 31, 2014 4.386B
April 30, 2014 4.348B
Jan. 31, 2014 4.672B
Oct. 31, 2013 3.033B
July 31, 2013 2.936B
April 30, 2013 3.713B
Jan. 31, 2013 3.728B
Oct. 31, 2012 3.435B
July 31, 2012 3.278B
April 30, 2012 3.131B


April 30, 2008 1.153B
Jan. 31, 2008 1.203B
Oct. 31, 2007 1.116B
July 31, 2007 935.25M
April 30, 2007 844.28M
Jan. 31, 2007 878.87M
Oct. 31, 2006 820.57M

Oh noes! But! But! $1200 for a Titan X is fine.

Nvidia was being paid $250 million a year by Intel - so even if you take $1.25 billion out of that,they have saved $2.35 billion over the last 8 years.

Then when you take into consideration how much Tegra cost Nvidia,you start to realise how much they have been making on the back of the whole rebranding exercise.

It gets even more hilarious when you consider AMD has actually more(if still not as large) pro marketshare than it used to compared to those days.

Nvidia has no real need to increase a lot of this pricing but they will when hardware enthusiasts beg for price increases and justify increased market segmentation.

If people did not accept it,Nvidia would not try it and sadly if Nvidia can get away with it,so will AMD. A two horse cartel works so much better.

Then when somebody points it out they would rather spite that person,instead of some no name company who could not give two hoots about you. I wonder how many of you would like to give another £50 to £200 more to a random stranger,because you might as well if you justify project rip off.

Rip off Britain only exists due to the consumers accepting it - consumers need to keep companies realistic not make excuses for them while they are storing billions of dollars in their accounts.

Don't bother answering SJ,I am sure you will find some way to justify a $1200 Titan X - the tactics Rollo and co started years ago has worked. You can see the same sort of terms he quoted and all of the NV FG did too,in people now making justifications for $1200 cards.

I am not going to ever agree with you with this at all and I think you won't with me - its no point continuing it. If you want the last word have it,but it won't change my view of this whole shambles,the hardware enthusiast community has sleepwalked right into.

Now I can happily wait for the $300 to $350 GTX2060 or RX580 next year,which should mean it is £300+ here with the pound going down the drain in value.

Yippy!

How about we pay vastly more VAT so we can help fund more services,since we are all part of the happy,lets pay more to increase margins crowd!

[scaryjim]

... The question is WHY you are so terrified at asking why Nvidia needs those 60% margins with 4+ billion dollars in the bank which has tripled since the 8800GT days. ...

Why are you so put out about it that you need to spend days explaining to a forum how evil and selfish nvidia are?

News flash. They're a company. They make money. That's the whole point of them. They could make a bit less money and sell their products a bit cheaper, but they're actually offering generational performance increases with price-comparable products - something that you are blatantly denying (and I note you STILL haven't responded to the fact that the GTX 1070 is cheaper and faster than the GTX 980 Ti).

I'm not ignoring the Titan X - it's an expensive halo e-peen product and I wouldn't touch it with your overdraft. But people do. That's their choice. And it IS a choice - there are a lot of other products out there. No-one is forced to buy a Titan X. Some people choose to. I don't understand them, but if those people exist why wouldn't someone take their money? I don't get why it bothers you. It's how business works.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Your the one being entirely ridiculous - you should do better than this. By selectively quoting bits and on purpose ignoring all the information you are sticking your head in the sand since the "facts" don't support your argument of desperately wanting to pay more. This is why prices have gone up MASSIVELY because of excuse makers like YOU.

The Titan X is a 471MM2 die chip at $1200. The GTX580 was a 500MM2 at $500. Even with inflation adjustment that is $550.

So over double with margins having gone up by nearly 25% - money in the bank over doubled,revenue gone up. That is why you are desperately backtracking on everything. You have zero answer to that. The margins are not flat.

So many other products don't do the same but hardware enthusiasts get deceived hook,line and sinker and then go into deflection mode and to try and justify things.

The question is WHY you are so terrified at asking why Nvidia needs those 60% margins with 4+ billion dollars in the bank which has tripled since the 8800GT days.

Expects excuse making for $1200 Titan X price in 3.....2.....1!



Meh,had a GTX660 and GTX960 - but it just shows the mentality of hardware enthusiasts where people are so desperate to justify a $1200 card that you would rather cut off your nose to spite your foot.

This is what the hardware enthusiast category has become. More about E-PEEN and justifying companies making more money and not what is correct for the consumer.

The mass apathy has lead to weak consumers who just accept what companies sell them instead of challenging what they are selling to you.

Its the dog in the manger attitude from hardware enthusiasts which is costing everybody more money in the end. This is what is annoying.

Any company which has its own consumers justifying massive price increases have lost the battle fully.

You are more worried by what companies dictate to you than anything else.

As a result you really have no reason to justify the price INCREASE of ANYTHING out there now - be it food,housing,transport or anything. That would make you a hypocrite - any company and any industry has as much right as a poxy graphics card company in increasing prices.

Reap what you sow.

Second Edit!!

To show how hilarious the excuse making has become.

Margins

April 30, 2016 57.55%
Jan. 31, 2016 56.46%
Oct. 31, 2015 56.25%
July 31, 2015 54.99%
April 30, 2015 56.73%
Jan. 31, 2015 55.88%
Oct. 31, 2014 55.18%
July 31, 2014 56.12%
April 30, 2014 54.76%
Jan. 31, 2014 54.15%
Oct. 31, 2013 55.45%
July 31, 2013 55.82%
April 30, 2013 54.32%
Jan. 31, 2013 52.90%
Oct. 31, 2012 52.87%
July 31, 2012 51.78%
April 30, 2012 50.10%

Compare to the days of the 8800GTX,etc:

Jan. 31, 2008 45.70%
Oct. 31, 2007 46.21%
July 31, 2007 45.33%
April 30, 2007 45.03%
Jan. 31, 2007 43.89%
Oct. 31, 2006 40.70%

Revenue per quarter

April 30, 2016 1.305B
Jan. 31, 2016 1.401B
Oct. 31, 2015 1.305B
July 31, 2015 1.153B
April 30, 2015 1.151B
Jan. 31, 2015 1.251B
Oct. 31, 2014 1.225B
July 31, 2014 1.103B
April 30, 2014 1.103B
Jan. 31, 2014 1.144B
Oct. 31, 2013 1.054B
July 31, 2013 977.24M
April 30, 2013 954.74M
Jan. 31, 2013 1.107B
Oct. 31, 2012 1.204B
July 31, 2012 1.044B
April 30, 2012 924.88M

April 30, 2008 1.153B
Jan. 31, 2008 1.203B
Oct. 31, 2007 1.116B
July 31, 2007 935.25M
April 30, 2007 844.28M
Jan. 31, 2007 878.87M
Oct. 31, 2006 820.57M

Cash and investments

April 30, 2016 4.754B
Jan. 31, 2016 5.037B
Oct. 31, 2015 4.728B
July 31, 2015 4.505B
April 30, 2015 4.792B
Jan. 31, 2015 4.623B
Oct. 31, 2014 4.241B
July 31, 2014 4.386B
April 30, 2014 4.348B
Jan. 31, 2014 4.672B
Oct. 31, 2013 3.033B
July 31, 2013 2.936B
April 30, 2013 3.713B
Jan. 31, 2013 3.728B
Oct. 31, 2012 3.435B
July 31, 2012 3.278B
April 30, 2012 3.131B


April 30, 2008 1.153B
Jan. 31, 2008 1.203B
Oct. 31, 2007 1.116B
July 31, 2007 935.25M
April 30, 2007 844.28M
Jan. 31, 2007 878.87M
Oct. 31, 2006 820.57M

Oh noes! But! But! $1200 for a Titan X is fine.

Nvidia was being paid $250 million a year by Intel - so even if you take $1.25 billion out of that,they have saved $2.35 billion over the last 8 years.

Then when you take into consideration how much Tegra cost Nvidia,you start to realise how much they have been making on the back of the whole rebranding exercise.

It gets even more hilarious when you consider AMD has actually more(if still not as large) pro marketshare than it used to compared to those days.

Nvidia has no real need to increase a lot of this pricing but they will when hardware enthusiasts beg for price increases and justify increased market segmentation.

If people did not accept it,Nvidia would not try it and sadly if Nvidia can get away with it,so will AMD. A two horse cartel works so much better.

Then when somebody points it out they would rather spite that person,instead of some no name company who could not give two hoots about you. I wonder how many of you would like to give another £50 to £200 more to a random stranger,because you might as well if you justify project rip off.

Rip off Britain only exists due to the consumers accepting it - consumers need to keep companies realistic not make excuses for them while they are storing billions of dollars in their accounts.

Don't bother answering SJ,I am sure you will find some way to justify a $1200 Titan X - the tactics Rollo and co started years ago has worked. You can see the same sort of terms he quoted and all of the NV FG did too,in people now making justifications for $1200 cards.

I am not going to ever agree with you with this at all and I think you won't with me - its no point continuing it. If you want the last word have it,but it won't change my view of this whole shambles,the hardware enthusiast community has sleepwalked right into.

Now I can happily wait for the $300 to $350 GTX2060 or RX580 next year,which should mean it is £300+ here with the pound going down the drain in value.

Yippy!

How about we pay vastly more VAT so we can help fund more services,since we are all part of the happy,lets pay more to increase margins crowd!

Why are you so put out about it that you need to spend days explaining to a forum how evil and selfish nvidia are?

News flash. They're a company. They make money. That's the whole point of them. They could make a bit less money and sell their products a bit cheaper, but they're actually offering generational performance increases with price-comparable products - something that you are blatantly denying (and I note you STILL haven't responded ot the fact that the GTX 1070 is cheaper and faster than the GTX 980 Ti).

I'm not ignoring the Titan X - it's an expensive halo e-peen product and I wouldn't touch it with your overdraft. But people do. That's their choice. And it IS a choice - there are a lot of other products out there. No-one is forced to buy a Titan X. Some people choose to. I don't understand them, but if those people exist why wouldn't someone take their money? I don't get why it bothers you. It's how business works.

Now you are so desperate in your argument to now make it personal and say I said Nvidia is evil - where did I say it?? Your argument is failing since I have repeatedly said it is EXCUSE MAKERS like YOU and hardware enthusiasts who giving justification to increase pricing - it is consumers like YOU which dictate pricing,as I mentioned so many times the following:

If people did not accept it,Nvidia would not try it and sadly if Nvidia can get away with it,so will AMD. A two horse cartel works so much better.

This is why your desperate dog in the manger attitude is even funnier(you conveniently have quoted out references I made to AMD beforehand since it does not fit your little vendetta against me for proving you wrong on so many occasions) and your selective twisted quoting is not going to work.

It shows how desperate you are to justify increased pricing - but! but! businesses. If you do not accept any price increase or tax increase automatically you are a hypocrite.

It is the whole point of a consumer to also dictate terms to companies too - just your apathtic,"I have given up" attitude has not worked. Companies SERVE US,your attitude is that YOU serve the company - it is a flipping shambles.

Plus your excuse making for the GTX1070 is funnier when you have ignored the whole rebranding exercise before it - and the fact we have had much cheaper cards(in real terms matching higher end ones) for years. It shows how much you have swallowed the rebranding exercise hook,line and sinker. You want to go into that - read the GTX1070 thread. Its been argued before months ago.

Why are you so WORRIED about them making more money - I am a consumer,why they hell are you to have a go at me,when I am saying we should actually not give into price increases of this level.

Consumers are here to protect their own interests.

You should listen to yourself - your repeated excuse making for increased margins and increased product segmentation is bordering on some level of Stockholm syndrome. If you cannot beat them,join them.

You seem to have not realised I was correct years ago,when I said the new segmentation would drive up prices and the excuse makers poo-pooed me then. Yet,it seems to have happened.

Consumers have ultimate control over companies,but hardware enthusiasts it seems companies have ultimate sway over them.

Apparently when companies increase margins massively,have billions more in the bank,and increase prices well beyond what is reasonable,you attitude is not to question it but to fight people saying its fine.

When have consumers become so weak and apathic?? You sound exactly like Rollo now.

[scaryjim]

... it is consumers like YOU which dictate pricing ...

If it was consumers like ME who dictated pricing there wouldn't be a GPU over £100 on the market. I am utterly atypical.

However, I do understand how consumerism and market forces work. It's consumers in general who decide the prices, which will vary based on supply and demand.

OTOH, what you have asserted several times is that consumers now have to "pay more for less". You've used the phrase several times. It's wrong. They have to pay more than YOU want for less performance than YOU'd like, but that's a different matter. Compared to the last generation, they can both pay less money, and get more performance. I'm not sure why you have a problem with that.

EDIT: If we're playing ninja edit wars, here's one of my own.

Companies DO NOT SERVE YOU. They serve themselves. If you don't like the way they do business, don't do business with them. It's really quite simple.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

If it was consumers like ME who dictated pricing there wouldn't be a GPU over £100 on the market. I am utterly atypical.

However, I do understand how consumerism and market forces work. It's consumers in general who decide the prices, which will vary based on supply and demand.

OTOH, what you have asserted several times is that consumers now have to "pay more for less". You've used the phrase several times. It's wrong. They have to pay more than YOU want for less performance than YOU'd like, but that's a different matter. Compared to the last generation, they can both pay less money, and get more performance. I'm not sure why you have a problem with that.

EDIT: If we're playing ninja edit wars, here's one of my own.

Companies DO NOT SERVE YOU. They serve themselves. If you don't like the way they do business, don't do business with them. It's really quite simple.

So more selective quoting and don't try all that edit rubbish,you know very well I reformat posts. Plus if you know companies serve themselves,then it seems weird that YOU as a customer seem to making more excuses for less and less gains and an increased cost or the $1200 segmentation of the Titan X and the upper tier cards. This has affected the entire ranges under that.

This is the whole issue I have with your line of argument - you say you are a strong consumer,but at the same time don't want to question these new upper tiers of cards one bit or the effect it has had on generational increases over the midrange for the last few years.

Customers do SERVE customers - they are selling products to US. They depend on US to survive especially for things like graphics cards. So if you excuse make for them,and lower standards they will do the minimum they will get away with to sell to the customer.

You seem to have massive issues not questioning the increased pricing at each generation and lower relative performance jumps we are getting(whilst at the same time ignoring the huge amounts of dosh being made as a result).

Justifying is bordering on madness - unless AMD/Nvidia employ you,them making silly amounts of money only means they either are overpricing things,or stretching out improvements,ie,what is known as milking it for what it is worth.

If cards like the Titan,Titan X and Titan X MK2 failed in sales,that whole segment would never have existed again. The same goes for all the people spending silly amounts on a GTX980TI or Fury X or GTX1080. If they didn't pay such a high price,it would mean AMD and Nvidia would either drop more performance at that price range or just drop the price or bundle more games,etc.

They rely on repeat sales,and if people have such low expectations then it only means they can do the minimum,whilst costing the gamer even more.

Apparently on Hexus having any sort of expectations now,is twisted into you hate the company. This is the same crap the Nvidia Focus Group pulled too - and you saw the same thing for years. You need to pay more,etc - you are being unreasonable if you want to pay less. They were on tons of forums - this is why I warned you about Rollo. This is going back a decade. This is why your arguments grate so much.

The company is good - you are horrible person for not wanting to pay the price they set. LMAO.

PS:

I edited the post.

Second Edit!!

I got stuff to do - I might continue this with you tomorrow or on Monday.

[scaryjim]

... don't try all that edit rubbish,you know very well I reformat posts. ...

Your original post, rather than the full quote from me, had just "straw men" in the quote tags, and was about half as long. You made a significant rewrite.

The market is the market CAT. It's a gestalt of all the people in it. A single consumer can't change that. Certainly long complicated screedy posts on relatively small tech forums won't. And really your last post boils down where your problem is: you don't like the fact that other people are happy with the products on offer.

And there's really nowhere to take this discussion from there.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Your original post, rather than the full quote from me, had just "straw men" in the quote tags, and was about half as long. You made a significant rewrite.

The market is the market CAT. It's a gestalt of all the people in it. A single consumer can't change that. Certainly long complicated screedy posts on relatively small tech forums won't. And really your last post boils down where your problem is: you don't like the fact that other people are happy with the products on offer.

And there's really nowhere to take this discussion from there.

But that is the issue with that attitude - nobody bothers to question anything and that is why the enthusiasts on forums have failed. If they actually questioned things intsead of egging on those which did,it would have changed things and that is the sad issue with it. The tech media does not question it either due to vested interests.

This is why we have hit this issue - the tech forums and media were far more proactive in calling out things before but it makes me wonder if they are scared of being sanctioned. Its the same issue we are seeing with game reviewing too.

This is why things like the Nvidia Focus Group did not help - and the fact the tech media just swept it under the carpet. All these arguments you want to pay more for the best,started en masse with them - its only when they were rumbled,it was like WTF?? These people infected comments sections,tech forums,etc - the whole tech media just kept quiet. They are just to blame as the enthusiasts who just accepted it(it was not illegal at the time either). Yet,we never saw Intel do it(don't think there was evidence for ATI doing it either AFAIK). Another failure with the media was sweeping the $200 million bumps issue under the carpet - it should have been highlighted. I managed to help close to a dozen people with related issues,who had no clue about it since it was hardly reported. It was only because enthusiasts and people on forums started noticing issues in the first place,which CD acted upon and the rest is history.

The same with the GTX970 issues too - if enthusiasts and some sites had not gone on about that and so on. If the RX480 PCI-E power issue had not been highlighted(no fix from AMD I suspect) and so on.

Your attitude is just wrong it really is.

Plus you are making "I don't like others" stuff which is a strawman by you- when I have said so many times it has affected the whole price range downwards. I am not the only one to have noticed this - its affecting what people will spend and not by small amounts.

Even on some of the bigger forums,you are starting to see people also notice how much more they are paying.

It took me a few years to barely get a 30% to 40% increase over what I had and now that card within a year is just looking more and more of a fail.

Its pushing more and more people to consoles and those are not people on tech forums either.

Plus there are a generation of newer enthusiast who are not even aware of how much things changed,and in the end maybe they need to realise how things have become warped more recently.They are unaware of this and why shouldn't they be made aware??

Trying to hide it out of some misguided reason seems rather weird.

And that is the other thing - you could argue a person can never make any difference for anything. Don't bother,you can't fight the system - that is just the wrong attitude. Defeatism does not work. Let the status quo just be that way,right??

Ask somebody like Ralph Nader or Martin Lewis!

Everybody needs to do their little bit to represent the consumer and not just give up.

This is why we have such diametrically opposed positions on it.

PS:

Edited post.

[D.king88]

It's good but it's not quite the "beast" I expected. For that price, as others have said, there is very little gain.

I'll be waiting for the 1080ti/1180ti, me thinks.

[weazybub]

I am waiting for the 1080ti myself. Just imagine what the titan could do if they let third parties make custom coolers a la EVGA though?