Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Founders Edition

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Well if CEX is any gauge, there are lot more GPUs available now.

Prices are still mad (£95 gets you a RX 550, a 1050Ti is £200), but the mere fact that they now have stock means the worse might be over.

You can get a new GTX1650 4GB GDDR6 for around £220 in the last week or so which is an "improvement" if you can call it that. However,its slower than an RX570 4GB. Its slower than the GPU in a £250 XBox Series S. It's most like a slower GPU than the one in the old XBox One X. What is the point?? You spend more and get a POS which is worse than a 2nd tier console? These GPUs are already outdated now,how are they going to look in a few years?? Even an RTX3060 is probably slower than the GPU in the Xbox Series X or PS5. Its hard to say whether even an RX6700XT is any faster.

Basically unless you want to get a prebuilt system,its better to sell off the PC and get a console now,or forget about gaming and buy a GT710 or something. Miners and their get rich schemes have screwed people over. Even one year ago when the pandemic was in full flow,GPUs didn't get this expensive. Miners are pushing up everything from GPUs to HDDs up in pricing,during a pandemic when more people are forced to work from home and stay at home.

Gamers using the excuse of "lets pay above the odds because I can mine it back" are a big part of the problem too. So on one hand miners are throwing money at these GPUs,and on the other hand gamers are using mining to flip GPUs,or justify mentally to themselves why paying 50% to 100% more for the same GPU is fine. I have seen it myself on forums and social media. Even threads from gamers to join in and mine to make the overinflated price seem less.

What these people don't seem to understand,if gamers are willing to pay more for GPUs,even if mining crashes,expect the next set of GPUs to cost more. Gamers with the Titan GPUs justified it right?? Turing was a big success for Nvidia,so gamers justified that too(it wasn't a financial failure for Nvidia). The entry level and mainstream gamers who can't afford it should just "eat cake" is what the answer will be. Elites apparently only apply to PCMR.

Consoles apply for plebs it seems,even the scalped ones make more sense than a PC ATM.

[3dcandy]

You can get a new GTX1650 4GB GDDR6 for around £220 in the last week or so which is an "improvement" if you can call it that. However,its slower than an RX570 4GB. Its slower than the GPU in a £250 XBox Series S. It's most like a slower GPU than the one in the old XBox One X. What is the point?? You spend more and get a POS which is worse than a 2nd tier console? These GPUs are already outdated now,how are they going to look in a few years?? Even an RTX3060 is probably slower than the GPU in the Xbox Series X or PS5. Its hard to say whether even an RX6700XT is any faster.

Basically unless you want to get a prebuilt system,its better to sell off the PC and get a console now,or forget about gaming and buy a GT710 or something. Miners and their get rich schemes have screwed people over. Even one year ago when the pandemic was in full flow,GPUs didn't get this expensive. Miners are pushing up everything from GPUs to HDDs up in pricing,during a pandemic when more people are forced to work from home and stay at home.

Gamers using the excuse of "lets pay above the odds because I can mine it back" are a big part of the problem too. So on one hand miners are throwing money at these GPUs,and on the other hand gamers are using mining to flip GPUs,or justify mentally to themselves why paying 50% to 100% more for the same GPU is fine. I have seen it myself on forums. Even threads from gamers to join in and mine to make the overinflated price seem less.

What these lot don't seem to understand,if gamers are willing to pay more for GPUs,even if mining crashes,expect the next set of GPUs to cost more. Gamers like with the Titan GPUs justified it right?? The entry level and mainstream gamers who can't afford it should just "eat cake" is what the answer will be. Elites apparently only apply to PCMR.

Consoles apply for plebs it seems,even the scalped ones make more sense than a PC ATM.

Whilst broadly agreeing using CEX is a pants metric - like using a Steam Survey...

However - the prices of second hand will adjust down and market forces WILL prevail, it just depends on how long that takes..
For a laugh Linus has been slating NV and the majority of tech vlogs are all getting pretty venemous about the situation

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Whilst broadly agreeing using CEX is a pants metric - like using a Steam Survey...

However - the prices of second hand will adjust down and market forces WILL prevail, it just depends on how long that takes..
For a laugh Linus has been slating NV and the majority of tech vlogs are all getting pretty venemous about the situation

I was talking about a brand new GPU from CCL Computers,not CEX. However,its concerning CEX does not even have Polaris GPUs in stock.

The issue is the reality on the ground is that all this stuff is slowly going to push more people away from PC gaming. As much as Steam is not totally accurate most gamers I know don't have top end hardware,and if the entry level/mainstream market starts seeing more and more of these shortages and price escalations it will have an effect. People will change their habits.

Tech journalists obviously don't like it because gamers/PC enthusiasts tend to be relatively larger spenders/frequent upgraders. So if people can't get a GPU,it means people lose interest. If they can't get a GPU,then why bother with the rest of the PC?? Since a PC builder will tend to act as tech support for many other less knowledgeable people,it will only mean their advice is to buy a prebuilt system/laptop or get a console. So that means longterm the review industry starts to lose revenue.

It also will affect the PC gaming industry - if in reality most of the higher performance GPUs are bought for mining,devs will prioritise consoles even more. No point really push PC games too far,if most of the market is still stuck on weaksauce stuff.You will only end up with a lot of people just not bothering if you need the latest GPU to play a game.Every one of the new generation XBox or PS consoles will be used for gaming,so you can target exclusives which use the new features. It just makes sense.

[3dcandy]

I was talking about a brand new GPU from CCL Computers,not CEX. However,its concerning CEX does not even have Polaris GPUs in stock.

The issue is the reality on the ground is that all this stuff is slowly going to push more people away from PC gaming. As much as Steam is not totally accurate most gamers I know don't have top end hardware,and if the entry level/mainstream market starts seeing more and more of these shortages and price escalations it will have an effect. People will change their habits.

Tech journalists obviously don't like it because gamers/PC enthusiasts tend to be relatively larger spenders/frequent upgraders. So if people can't get a GPU,it means people lose interest. If they can't get a GPU,then why bother with the rest of the PC?? Since a PC builder will tend to act as tech support for many other less knowledgeable people,it will only mean their advice is to buy a prebuilt system/laptop or get a console. So that means longterm the review industry starts to lose revenue.

It also will affect the PC gaming industry - if in reality most of the higher performance GPUs are bought for mining,devs will prioritise consoles even more. No point really push PC games too far,if most of the market is still stuck on weaksauce stuff.You will only end up with a lot of people just not bothering if you need the latest GPU to play a game.Every one of the new generation XBox or PS consoles will be used for gaming,so you can target exclusives which use the new features. It just makes sense.

But console availability is just as bad...
This chip shortage is now so bad I know people having car orders cancelled because they simply cannot build the car

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

But console availability is just as bad...

It really isn't at least more recently. I know lots more people who got consoles fine. Even on OcUK forums people ended up just getting consoles,because they got fedup of trying to find a GPU not at silly prices. Demand for consoles has shot up because you can see many GPU buyers now trying to get hold of consoles.

Its been easy to get an XBox Series S for yonks now. It basically uses a downclocked Ryzen 7 3700X/4700G CPU,and the GPU is basically a slightly cut down RX5500XT(2 less compute units). However,it is RDNA2 unlike the RX5500XT,so has double the L2 cache,similar GPU clockspeeds and the same amount of memory bandwidth. So it will be around RX580~RX590 level speed. The fastest new GPU you can actually get below £350 ATM is the GTX1650 GDDR6(slower than an RX570). A lot of enthusiasts are only looking at the high end,but when it comes to entry level/mainstream under £400 its been a disaster in the PC arena for GPUs. Its not only high prices but hardly any stock anywhere.

So for £250~£280 you get a Ryzen 7 CPU and a RX580/RX590 level GPU,a PCI-E 4.0 NVME SSD,etc. The GTX1650 GDDR6 costs £220. A Ryzen 7 3700X is at least £200~£250. At this point its pointless trying to build a mainstream PC with GPUs being so overpriced.

XBox Series X drops are far easier to get - I even had it in the basket a few times in the last few months myself with no need for Discords,etc.I have yet to get a single GPU in a basket outside launch day of the RTX3060TI. Unless I act on an alert immediately its no point,and I am not spending my entire waking hours waiting on GPU alerts.

Scalped XBox Series X consoles sell for between £450~£550 now on Ebay which is not massively above RRP. PS5 is a bit harder to get,but even if you are to pay a scalped price for a PS5 its between £450~£650. Most sold on Ebay are under £600 now. Both have around a £450 RRP. So you are looking at between £0 to £150 extra for a console. Compared to PC GPUs in the UK outside a GT1030,consoles are far easier to get. They also are far less scalped secondhand,so it might even make some sense for the desperate to pay that extra £100 to get one quicker. Far less scalping means supply is relatively better compared to demand. With GPUs its easily £300~£1000 more.

An RTX3060 is now over £600 secondhand(most are around £700):
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...te=1&LH_Sold=1
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...te=1&LH_Sold=1

RTX3060TI GPUs are around £800.

A slower GPU than an entire XBox Series X system which is cheaper secondhand paying scalped pricing.

On top of that the previous generation PS4 PRO and XBox One X,still can be bought. The latter has a GPU faster than an RX580,but costs less than an RX580 8GB,which sells for over £300 now secondhand.

The reality is even with the shortages,is still far easier to get a console,get a CPU,get a monitor or a myriad of other computer parts. You know its bad when people who you know at large tech companies(who have access to the supply chain as Nvidia/AMD/Intel partners) have said colleagues have resorted to buying whole systems now,instead of building them.

This chip shortage is now so bad I know people having car orders cancelled because they simply cannot build the car

Car companies reduced semiconductor orders early last year since they thought demand would collapse because of the pandemic. When it rebounded,they couldn't get spare capacity as other industries had already purchased it. They made a poor short term business decision.

[kompukare]

But console availability is just as bad...
This chip shortage is now so bad I know people having car orders cancelled because they simply cannot build the car

I know car manufactures like to cry all the time about how essential they are for GDP etc., but isn't their shortage mainly due to them cutting back on their orders when Covid hit?

Car chips aren't even on leading edge nodes, that foundry that Bosch just built is 65nm I believe.

EDIT: and apparently a mad total reliance on JIT but that should be well known from the Brexit debates at this stage.

[3dcandy]

It really isn't. I know lots more people who got consoles fine. Its been easy to get an XBox Series S for yonks now. The GPU is far quicker than a GTX1650,etc and its around £250~£280 with XBox Live included for a few months. You can barely get a Ryzen 7 3700X for £200~£250.

XBox Series X drops are far easier to get - I even had it in the basket a few times in the last few months myself with no need for Discords,etc. Scalped XBox Series X consoles sell for between £450~£550 now on Ebay which is not massively above RRP.PS5 is a bit harder to get,but even if you are to pay a scalped price for a PS5 its between £450~£650.

This is far cheaper than trying to get hold of a RTX3060TI or RX6700XT at most retailers,and even if you got one at RRP,by the time you pay £200+ for a Ryzen 7 3700X,etc it still costs more.

It's all relative though. Consoles will always have a better availability but I still know plenty who have struggled - simply because they are not as tech minded as us and just want to go and buy one from say an Argos or similar. In this case - availability is dire compared to previous launches

[3dcandy]

I know car manufactures like to cry all the time about how essential they are for GDP etc., but isn't their shortage mainly due to them cutting back on their orders when Covid hit?

Car chips aren't even on leading edge nodes, that foundry that Bosch just built is 65nm I believe.

EDIT: and apparently a mad total reliance on JIT but that should be well known from the Brexit debates at this stage.

The chip shortage has affected nearly everything. Perfect storm of covid and massively increased demand (after a while when they all decided it wasn't going away) has made it a massive issue. We had vouchers from a big online store named after a river for Christmas. Wanted an air fryer that's stealthy and all in black. Couldn't get one. Eventually contacted the suppliers to be told there was a 3 month delay because the microprocessor was out of stock. We saw that gpu shipments are up massively (30 odd percent basically) and with a new console launch etc. etc. this issue really isn't going to ease any time soon. I know people who would never have bought a laptop or a console getting them recently because they literally have hours free time they don't know what to do with. I have a mate who has now been furloughed for 15 months on full pay who literally has money to burn

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It's all relative though. Consoles will always have a better availability but I still know plenty who have struggled - simply because they are not as tech minded as us and just want to go and buy one from say an Argos or similar. In this case - availability is dire compared to previous launches

I went on HUKD. Deals appeared,stock was there. Lots of people use HUKD.

But its even worse for all the entry level/mainstream PC gamers I know. The fact that you still go onto Ebay and pay "only" £100 more for an XBox Series X/PS5 from a scalper,does not even apply to PC gamers. A mate ended up paying over £200 for a GTX980 to replace their kaput RX580 4GB,and that was after months being on their previous GTX660,which didn't play nicely with their new monitor(replaced the previous one which was very old). Its bad when people who you know at large tech companies(who have access to the supply chain as Nvidia/AMD/Intel partners) have said colleagues have resorted to buying whole systems now,instead of building them.

Plus for ages now the entry level XBox Series S has been easily available everywhere - Currys,Argos,etc have it in stock. So at least a console owner has some alternative to bide them over. What does an entry level PC gamer have?? A £220 GTX1650 or GTX1050TI?? Or go on Ebay and buy something which has been years out of warranty? Buy an old GTX1060 from CEX for nearly £300?? Enthusiasts only think in high end systems - the fact is the average PC gamer has been utterly screwed over this 100X worse than console gamers.

Even I couldn't get hold of a GPU for a mate,despite using alerts,etc. That is because I can't spend 24/7 waiting on GPU alerts all the time. That means literally everyone else I know will have 100X less patience to bother!

Plus again literally every other part can be bought right now fine - CPUs,motherboards,RAM,SSDs,HDDs,PSUs,cases,etc and many at under RRP. Phones can be bought,TVs,cameras,lenses,hifi,etc. Even if there are shortages plenty of items in massive demand can be had right now.

GPUs seem to be the one thing which are affected and have been for the last 9 months. It's coincided exactly with mining,and follows the same shortages and price increases we saw in 2017/2018 with mining,and in the first mining boom with AMD GPUs.

It seems the reality is a lot of those extra GPUs are probably being bought by miners,or those intending to mine.

[EasterEEL]

Is there any point in reviewing a graphics card that will probably never be purchasable in the UK??

I got all excited about the RTX-3070 FE and despite regularly checking the Nvidia and Scan stores for six months, have never found it in stock.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Is there any point in reviewing a graphics card that will probably never be purchasable in the UK??

I got all excited about the RTX-3070 FE and despite regularly checking the Nvidia and Scan stores for six months, have never found it in stock.

What they should do is not bother running gaming benchmarks. Just run mining benchmarks using various coins. At these prices its full time miners,part time miners,or gamers who are desperately mining so they can afford a GPU way outside their comfort zone,who will pay it(or the super rich who think a few £100 extra is pocket money). For the rest of us we might as well make a set of games which can run on integrated graphics,lest what we have stuff working and we don't want to pay scalped GPU pricing.

When the pandemic was in full flow early last year it was easier to get a GPU IMHO,and even when scalped the prices were nowhere as high.

Just like in 2017/2018 with that mining boom,we saw GPU prices go up massively at the high end,and then be always out of stock. Then they concentrated on mainstream GPUs,and mainstream GPUs went up in price and ran out. I still remember RX470 GPUs selling for nearly £300 back then. Nvidia and AMD then also released mining SKUs too,further screwing over supply for gamers.

But people were blaming process node capacity limitations,RAM supply limitations,etc back then. Yet everything else seemed to be easier to get. The moment mining crashed,supply was far easier to get,but Nvidia,etc realised they liked the higher pricing. So all we had is pricing not really going below RRP that much,and then Turing appeared with its price hike. IMHO,you need to thank the miners for that as Nvidia wanted to prescalp the price so they got more money and not the retailers/suppliers. It was the same issue we saw back in the first mining boom,when even HD7850 GPUs became stupidly priced. It follows the same pattern. Always its "never" the fault of miners,but always some other reason.

Shortage or no shortage,AMD/Nvidia will like these prices so expect the RTX4000 and RX7000 series to have another price hike.

[[GSV]Trig]

Maybe, just maybe, Elon is trying to build a killer gaming rig and can't buy a GPU, he slags off Bitcoin, stops accepting it at Tesla, the price goes down, the GPU market then starts to get used cards to trickle in, then he can finally buy a GPU and then suddenly BTC is his friend again and he promotes and starts to accept it again and then things go back to normal...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Maybe, just maybe, Elon is trying to build a killer gaming rig and can't buy a GPU, he slags off Bitcoin, stops accepting it at Tesla, the price goes down, the GPU market then starts to get used cards to trickle in, then he can finally buy a GPU and then suddenly BTC is his friend again and he promotes and starts to accept it again and then things go back to normal...

TBF,if he was shorting BTC,I would imagine buy more of it at the lower price would make sense. Even a 10% increase on 1 billion USD of BTC is a 100 million USD of profit!

[poshpaul]

Should really be called a RTX 3070 SUPER and not RTX 3070 Ti

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Should really be called a RTX 3070 SUPER and not RTX 3070 Ti

It should be called the RTX3070SE(Scalpers Edition).

The GTX980TI had an RRP of $649,now a 70 series GPU has a $599 RRP. So much progress!!

[kalniel]

Is there any point in reviewing a graphics card that will probably never be purchasable in the UK??

Yeah definitely. I love reading about tech, even if I am probably never going to buy it. Same reason I enjoy reading about supercars