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About LinkBacksRead more.Another performance RTX card launched with practically no stock available.
Read more.Another performance RTX card launched with practically no stock available.
How is limited hash rate a pro?
Its a negative or just simply not note worthy, it just means if you buy one you cant run it mining occasionally to make back some of the money you spent on it.
Just running my Vega64 mining while not gaming/working has paid for itself over the years and then some, I dont see it as a pro to make your card even less useful at offsetting its arguably high price for the performance.
3070ti seems way overpricied for such little change, its a shame that this isnt just used for 3070 skus and just used to limit supply again.
Originally Posted by snootyjim
[GSV]Trig (09-06-2021),Tabbykatze (09-06-2021)
It's a pro if it actually ends up putting off miners. Unless you can actually get an RTX3070FE(which is rarer then Hen's teeth),an RTX3070 sells for over £1000, as like the RTX3060TI,its the sweetspot for mining effiency.
I would have expected the 3070Ti to have closer to the stock 3080, but if it is the full die for the GA104 then, what's the point, it offers very little over the stock 3070 and if it's crypto'nerfed then as Hicks12 says, you cant even mine on it to get some of your hard-earned back (although that's hardly worth it at the mo, with NiceHash at least..)
The thing is my vega64 can do 50Mh/s @ 150w (Ive seen people do better)
What is the power usage from out of the box while mining I wonder, Tarinder did you happen to check that? Just curious how low thew power usage is mining out of the box at that rate.
Its still profitable for me to mine I make around quid a day profit (after electric), its pocket change but adds up and if you are buying on mass if you can get similar profits then you will STILL be buying these LHR cards.
I dont think the LHR does anything to stop the supply, scalpers and people doing mass mining will still buy them all so it wont help supply all they have done is made 'gamers' pay even more on RRP for a little extra... I know its supply and demand but shouldnt give Nvidia credit here for just milking the situation.
Since I have a SFF rig,I have no interest in keeping the system on 24/7,and shortening the lifespan of my components,and having extra noise on top of this. Then having the room just get excessively warm due to the GPU fan heater being on all the time!The GPU is easily the biggest heat producing component in the system - I would rather not have my semi-passive SFX PSU being under heavy load all the time! It might be OK for people with larger rigs.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 09-06-2021 at 03:22 PM.
It depends what market you're in. If you're a gamer with no interest in mining then it's a pro since it might help you get a card, or at least, one that hasn't been used for mining.
Of course, if you're a miner then it's a con, but I think this particular review was aimed at non-miners.
On the topic of the card itself.. now we know that GA104 can do GDDR6X, which is neat. That leap in power consumption is not so neat however - also related to GDDR6X maybe?
I was discussing earlier with a colleague that the big mining companies will still buy these hand over fist initially until enough time passes that they realise they can't crack the LHR limiter. But notice Nvidia isn't making big fanfare about being "unhackable! but we'll see how long that lasts.
If they crack it and have bought all these GPUs, they're winning, if they don't crack it then they flood the market with GPUs and they're still winning.
So mining businesses hoovering up all these GPUs is going to happen irrespective of the "LHR" for the next few months until either the LHR limiter is cracked or deemed no longer worth trying to break and just shift the stock.
So as you say in your previous comment, the fact it has an LHR is a completely moot point and only screws over the general customer and barely effects the big mining operations.
Since I have a SFF rig,I have no interest in keeping the system on 24/7,and shortening the lifespan of my components,and having extra noise on top of this. Then having the room just get excessively warm due to the GPU fan heater being on all the time!
Mining doesnt really reduce the lifespan, I am waiting for someone to show the evidence as there is no real logic to this they are ran at middle load rather than ramping up and down so less temp change and less degradation as not fully stressed or idle.
Your con is a pro for me, I own an old property from 1902 which is terrible for keeping warm so having a GPU running means I dont need much additional heat and it pays for itself which is a huge plus.
Noise also isnt a problem as I watercool so its all reasonably quiet but I can appreciate that would definitely be annoying in a SFF on air (or at least the vega can be!)
My problem is people mining on the side isnt a problem its the fact supply is so low to begin with AND then lots of people are buying in bulk for mining along with the rest being scalpers just trying to sell to anyone who is willing to pay insane pricing for it. LHR isnt enough to stop alt coins being mined and I dont think its enough to actually stop the ETH being profitable on mass so it will still be bought and scalpers will of course still buy it up.
Well the recent Hexus article about JPR suggests shipments have been much higher than before - so supply isn't really lower, it's just demand is much higher.
When I looked I didnt see any breakdown it was just per brand wasnt it? The dont dispute shipments of GPUs are up but anecdotally I can say this is in the lower end as with covid I have had to sort out a crap ton of PCs for staff to use and we recently moved to ryzen based pcs which had no integrated graphics so we have bought graphics cards when we usually would buy 0! Im sure a lot of businesses have been in the same situation to be honest
Its a shame AMD has console priorities and that they arent great with VR (specifically for quest 1/2 via pc) so it rules them out this gen for me
It does for SFF PCs though. SFF systems by their nature tend to run warmer anyway,and have less thermal capacity than larger systems. They are far more sensitive to heat because of their size,and one area it has always manifested itself is in capacitor lifespan. Capacitors by their nature tend to have reduced lifespan progressively as the temperatures get higher. This is why many spec sheets show different lifespans according to temperature.
Gaming,at least in my case,is generally a small fraction of the total on time for my system. Also the games which I run tend to be FPS capped or CPU limited,so the GPU is not at 100% load.
So for SFF systems having short periods of high load and higher temperatures is OK. What is bad for them is constant heat soaking which is what things such as mining does. Plus I don't tend to have my systems on 24/7 ,as I switch them off when I finished with them. I use an SFX PSU - many essentially run passively upto a few 100W,which is why I make sure the PSU actually gets some airflow. It runs rather warmly - so again running the system 24/7 mining is going to cause it to run even hotter.
The GPU is the component which not only produces the most heat in my system it also consumes the most power. So even having at 50% load 24/7 for years at time will eventually cause every part in the system to die quicker,because the capacitors will eventually exhaust their effective lifespan shorter. It will also reduce the effective lifespan of all the fans in the system,and also push more dust into it,hence leading to a vicious circle!
Its what I realised 15 years ago when I started building my own SFF systems. My Shuttle systems tended to last much longer than many on the internet - I always was careful in how my systems are thermally managed. In the past it was capacitors going in the PSU or near the VRMs which made many SFF systems go kaput. A lot of longer term issues with SFF systems happen when people try to make a high powered ATX rig(in terms of power consumption) into something smaller,then run it under heavy load and reduce the cooling to make it quieter. It will be fine for a few years(but you are really pushing the components),but I want to have the ability to run it for longer.
This does not apply so much to full sized sized builds because there is much better thermal management. It might not apply the excessively large ATX sized "SFF" cases you get also,but it will apply to smaller volume cases.
Also WRT to mining GPUs - I have known a few people buy ex-mining GPUs. Some ended up with VRAM issues. GPUs as new as an RX580. This is the issue with mining,VRAM is far more sensitive to heat,etc than the GPU. So if a miner has bought a card with poor memory cooling,put it in a system with insufficient airflow,etc that RAM will eventually start to have issues. It might take a a year or two,but eventually it will. This is why mining specific GPUs have shorter warranties - if a GPU is going to go kaput from a mining load,its probably the VRAM which will go kaput first. The CPU cores themselves are not such an issue.
The issue is that many casual miners,might not really be knowledgeable to keep the VRAM cool,undervolted,etc. Its no different than people overclocking system RAM,and eventually causing the RAM to have problems,as they kept it too hot for extended periods. People who have a clue will always try to manage the heat and voltage aspects - the issue is just because you can install the mining software,etc does not mean people understand thermal management.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 09-06-2021 at 04:29 PM.
When the temperate outside were 0°C to 10°C, casual mining might have made sense.
Now that they are 20°C? Unless you can hook it up to warm water for showers, or something you'd have to be mad!
It also assumes you already have a good enough GPU for profitable mining,or assumes you are rich enough to spend £500+ on a GPU which can mine well. It also assumes you can afford to eat the cost of any other parts going kaput earlier because of the heavier use,or have invested in decent cases,cooling etc to be able to run it 24/7 and not be a PITA.
I have never spent more than £300 on a GPU even adjusted for inflation and I buy a GPU to game on. If it means I need to wear out my whole system,and not being able to use it fully just to afford it,what is the point? Its like work on top of work. So that means I should get a tax rebate on GPUs then!
You might as well bypass having a PC and get a console for gaming,and a laptop for everything else. Then buy some crypto or stocks and try to ride the high.
Its just generally hiding the fact AMD/Nvidia has been jacking up the price of GPUs way above inflation,yet everything else in real terms is cheaper. I told people defending the Titan it would lead to what we are seeing,ie,Nvidia/AMD taking the mickey with prices,and and endless numbers of gamers,miners,etc just kept throwing money at then. Crypto is just the "icing" on a very bitter cake. The mainstream is a pile of piddle now,not that many PCMR forum people would know,as its all enthusiast level GPUs which anyone talks about!
At this point its like feeding an addiction with more creative uses - the best thing is to break it IMHO. If my current GPU goes,I will use my GTX960. AMD/Nvidia can keep all their inflated true pricing. What else are we going to have?? A subscription service on top of the purchase cost?? This hobby has become a game of whales now,and AAA gaming is moving the same way. More loot boxes,yearly carbon copy releases,etc - gamers just lap it all up. AMD/Nvidia fully know this.
Its sad when I found CCL Computers actually selling a GTX1650 in stock for £220.It was in stock! Yes,the only not totally crap GPU under £350 you can find without having to play a lottery. Its slower than an RX570. A £250 XBox Series S has a faster GPU.
The issue is you can try and ride it out,but eventually things will fail and the secondhand market is so inflated you will be spending £100s on stuff with no warranty. I have seen it happen to people I know,so they could have a functional system - they hardly wanted uber level graphics power but ended up having to use HD7850s and GTX660 GPUs as stop gaps. Others ended up with a 6 old GPU as an upgrade because that was all they could get which was under £300. The alternative would be to put the system back in the box and use their phone instead(at least the GPU on that works). There are others I know who are still clinging onto 6~7 year old GPUs,and if those go I think their desktops will just get dumped and replaced by laptops. They won't be profitable mining. Sure they can check all the discords,etc for FE drops but even I just got fedup after a while(looking for a mate) as I have better things to do.
Everyone on tech forums,assumes you can spend £500+ on a GPU and mine all the extra cost back. Whats next an 8C CPU becomes £500 too,so we can mine on that too?? Its already happened with HDDs. At this rate it will be more cost effective to buy a Mac!
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 09-06-2021 at 05:49 PM.
Well if CEX is any gauge, there are lot more GPUs available now.
Prices are still mad (£95 gets you a RX 550, a 1050Ti is £200), but the mere fact that they now have stock means the worse might be over.
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