Location of fibre connection in domestic installation

[MrJim]

I'm thinking of switching to FTTC fibre broadband once my current contract ends, & I'm just considering where to have the connection. The master BT phone socket is located in an upstairs bedroom, but I'd like the fibre connection & router located in a cupboard under the stairs on the ground floor (where my NAS is also currently situated). Can anyone tell me the maximum distance the fibre connection can be from the master BT socket, & whether BT or their resellers like Sky, Plusnet etc would be prepared to route cables from upstairs down to said cupboard? Many thanks in advance.

[Saracen]

I can't give you a maximum distance, but I can pass comment on whether they'll route cable where you want it. With both Sky (for sat TV) and NTL (cable broadband), the attitude of installers was "can't do that, mate, not allowed to ...) and some excuse.

In both cases, I'd stipulated when ordering where I wanted bits and how I wanted cables routed, so rather than argue with the installer, I rang the company, reminded them of my conditions and told them "comply, or cancel the order". Sky, in particular, had "a_word" with the installer, an external subcontractor, and told him ('cos I heard it) to do the *rude word* job hewas paid for if he wanted to continue getting Sky work. They then pulled him off the job, and sent invtheir own directly employed team.

So, if you have specific requirements, just make them a requirement that MUST be honoured if they want you as a customer. Otherwise, they'll likely just do it the easy way that suits them.

[chuckskull]

I can't speak for other ISP's but I switched to FTTC on BT recently, they seemed willing to install networking as I liked, but at a price. Can't tell you more sorry as it's something I had no interest in myself. I know BT will move/add another the socket for sure, but again at a price. Best bet is to ask when you're ordering as Saracen said.

However their FTTC setup is a 2 box solution, a white box connected to the socket which I assume is some kind of Fibre modem(by what looks like a couple metres of boggo phone cable), that is then connected to a standard home hub with an Ethernet cable. So assuming your NAS is wired, the easy solution would be to leave the white box next to the current socket then have the home hub under the stairs connected via the current Ethernet.

[Biscuit]

My dad had kinda the opposite experience, he was asked where he would like the BT socket to be moved too and they guy put it exactly where he wanted. I think if its anywhere other than on an outside wall you might have issues though.

With FTTC you will have a seperate modem and router and the connection between them is CAT5/6. If you put the modem at the BT socket, then run a CAT5 to the place you want the router.... job done. They try to make out like they are the ones who should be putting in the cable and try to charge you for the installation, but they dont do anything special. I just let him install it near the socket then moved the router myself.

[Splash]

EDIT: gah, beaten to the punch!

[MrJim]

Thanks very much everyone for the useful feedback, much appreciated

[Biscuit]

Worth pointing out that my dad was able to move his because his master socket was extremely old and e was going to need a new cable running from the cabinet anyway.

[Jake_UK]

Can anyone tell me the maximum distance the fibre connection can be from the master BT socket, & whether BT or their resellers like Sky, Plusnet etc would be prepared to route cables from upstairs down to said cupboard?

30 metres officially:

Data Extension Kit cable (max 30 metres long) can run from your master socket to your new BT Home Hub. The engineer will install the cable and talk to you about the route of the new cable. They'll tack it neatly to the top of skirting boards and run it around door frames, but are not allowed to run it under carpets.

From: http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/d...as-bt-infinity

Unofficially, based on my personal experience, they are more flexible than that but it's all down to the installer - be sure to offer him tea and biccies

[Saracen]

My dad had kinda the opposite experience, he was asked where he would like the BT socket to be moved too and they guy put it exactly where he wanted. I think if its anywhere other than on an outside wall you might have issues though.

With FTTC you will have a seperate modem and router and the connection between them is CAT5/6. If you put the modem at the BT socket, then run a CAT5 to the place you want the router.... job done. They try to make out like they are the ones who should be putting in the cable and try to charge you for the installation, but they dont do anything special. I just let him install it near the socket then moved the router myself.

All true enough, but it my case, the first Sky guy wanted to run a cable from the dish up the back wall, over the roof and down the other side, down the wall and drill through the lounge wall. I told him that that wasn't happening, and to go through eves air gap, (neatly) across the loft, down an existing utility tunnel to the garage, and up into the lounge. This required no drilling at all, no visible cable except a metre or two from the dish to eves, and certainly didn't involve throwing a cable over the roof slates.

He said "Can't do it. The loft needs to be boarded and lit or health and safety won't let me work in there." And that is what the local Sky area manager blew his fuse over. Not only was that H&S excuse utter drivel, but the subcontractor contract apparently requires them to carry crawl boards and helmet lights as a condition of getting the contract.

Similarly with NTL. The engineer wanted to run cabling up the outside of the wall, and put the box in a visible spot. I told him the box was to be low, behind a shrub, and I wanted TV cable routed to the lounge, and broadband to a comms cabinet in my home office. After making it clear it was my way or not at all, I got my way.

A LOT depends on the actual engineer, in my experience. Some are very good and go out of their way to help .... and Jake_UK is right, tea and biccies helps. But some are only interested in getting the job done as quickly as possible, especially if they are subcontractors paid by the job, because if they do simple jobs, or do it the simple way, they get more jobs per day, and earn more. That latter type don't care if it's done the way the customer wants it as long as it's done, and they get paid. They want to do it in two hours, not four or three.

If you're lucky enough to get the co-operative type, then great. If you get the other type, you have to know what you want, and be prepared to insist on it.

[Thorsson]

My experience was also good (BT Openreach), but the socket in my study is only a relatively short distance from the master socket, less than 20'.

[MrJim]

If you put the modem at the BT socket, then run a CAT5 to the place you want the router.... job done. They try to make out like they are the ones who should be putting in the cable and try to charge you for the installation, but they dont do anything special. I just let him install it near the socket then moved the router myself.

Does the ethernet cable from the Fibre 'modem' to the router have to be wired as a 'crossover' lead, or straight? Or doesn't it matter? I know most routers are auto-sensing these days, but I'm not sure whether that's true for the 'WAN' side too?

[Agent]

Does the ethernet cable from the Fibre 'modem' to the router have to be wired as a 'crossover' lead, or straight? Or doesn't it matter? I know most routers are auto-sensing these days, but I'm not sure whether that's true for the 'WAN' side too?

Straight.

I've had the extension issue appear before. I've found it's much easier to put a socket where you want it and wire it yourself. I normally use CAT5e as I have some lying around and is of good quality.

Then when the BT guy appears, say you want that extension socket to be your master socket. As long as you have spare pairs in the cable (and CAT5 will), then it's just a case of swapping a few cables around at each end. You can do it yourslef if you wish, but you're not really supposed to mess with the master socket.

[MrJim]

Straight.

I've had the extension issue appear before. I've found it's much easier to put a socket where you want it and wire it yourself. I normally use CAT5e as I have some lying around and is of good quality.

Then when the BT guy appears, say you want that extension socket to be your master socket. As long as you have spare pairs in the cable (and CAT5 will), then it's just a case of swapping a few cables around at each end. You can do it yourslef if you wish, but you're not really supposed to mess with the master socket.

Thanks for clarifying that

I spoke with Plusnet about my plans, & they want £50 for moving the master phone socket Instead, I'm going to have ethernet cables laid underfloor in my house anyway, so I'll just have the fibre modem installed next to the master BT socket upstairs, and run Ethernet down to the cupboard under the stairs which is where the router will be, as suggested by Biscuit above.

Edit
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I assume the cable from the modem to the router is just a standard RJ45 plug at either end, & they don't do anything silly like hard-wire it at the modem end?

[Jake_UK]

Your situation sounds similar to mine Jim.

What I had done was for the engineer to run off a good long length of the 'data extension cable', one end of which is hardwired into the master socket and the other end has a socket for the modem to plug into. This long length of cable is currently coiled up next the master socket waiting for me to drop it down to the floor below through a new conduit I'll be installing when the house is rewired. So basically BT provided me the materials (all connected up) for me to do the 'underfloor' bit myself at a later date with the added bonus that the modem (which has perma-lit LEDs by the way) is where I want it (i.e. hidden away rather than visible in the hall).

[MrJim]

Your situation sounds similar to mine Jim.

What I had done was for the engineer to run off a good long length of the 'data extension cable', one end of which is hardwired into the master socket and the other end has a socket for the modem to plug into. This long length of cable is currently coiled up next the master socket waiting for me to drop it down to the floor below through a new conduit I'll be installing when the house is rewired. So basically BT provided me the materials (all connected up) for me to do the 'underfloor' bit myself at a later date with the added bonus that the modem (which has perma-lit LEDs by the way) is where I want it (i.e. hidden away rather than visible in the hall).

Does that mean you'll have to crimp your own RJ45 plug on the end of the cable? Unfortunately I'm a wheelchair user & can't run cables or fix RJ45 plugs myself...

[Biscuit]

Edit
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I assume the cable from the modem to the router is just a standard RJ45 plug at either end, & they don't do anything silly like hard-wire it at the modem end?

Na, they provide a pre made patch cable which is about 2m with the router/modem

Your situation sounds similar to mine Jim.

What I had done was for the engineer to run off a good long length of the 'data extension cable', one end of which is hardwired into the master socket and the other end has a socket for the modem to plug into. This long length of cable is currently coiled up next the master socket waiting for me to drop it down to the floor below through a new conduit I'll be installing when the house is rewired. So basically BT provided me the materials (all connected up) for me to do the 'underfloor' bit myself at a later date with the added bonus that the modem (which has perma-lit LEDs by the way) is where I want it (i.e. hidden away rather than visible in the hall).

Good plan, but bear in mind you lose speed with more distance pre-modem (I think upload suffers more) and there is the rare occasion where you need to access the modem for trouble shooting.

Does that mean you'll have to crimp your own RJ45 plug on the end of the cable? Unfortunately I'm a wheelchair user & can't run cables or fix RJ45 plugs myself...

If it's the connection between the wall and the modem then it's RJ11/RJ12, but yes in this scenario, unless you hired someone, you would have to crimp/punch it yourself.