FTTP Broadband Question.

[MrJim]

Are you lot all from the past? Do you still use phone boxes? Still send faxes? Watch DVDs? Use an A-Z map? Send letters? Heat your house with coal?

I do still send the occasional fax, & watch DVDs!

[DanceswithUnix]

This is essentially what you'll need to do, I think. Have a 'master' DECT phone plugged into the router, & then other DECT handsets connected to that. It is certainly wasteful - there'll be a huge amount of 'ewaste' generated from redundant conventional landline phones.

https://www.bt.com/broadband/digital-voice

It looks like the FritzBox that Zen supply is itself a DECT master, so you just pair your existing phone with it.

Doesn't get around the problem that all the DECT phones I've used have been shaped like an old mobile feature phone. If it's as uncomfortable as my modern smartphone for long calls, I'll just not have a landline. I suspect there will be a lot of people choosing that option.

[MrJim]

It looks like the FritzBox that Zen supply is itself a DECT master, so you just pair your existing phone with it.

Doesn't get around the problem that all the DECT phones I've used have been shaped like an old mobile feature phone. If it's as uncomfortable as my modern smartphone for long calls, I'll just not have a landline. I suspect there will be a lot of people choosing that option.

Yes, there will be 'Digital Voice' compatible handsets that can connect directly to the router. I was thinking about older 'legacy' DECT phones.

[DanceswithUnix]

Yes, there will be 'Digital Voice' compatible handsets that can connect directly to the router. I was thinking about older 'legacy' DECT phones.

Yep, I'm talking about legacy DECT. If you have a DECT base unit with answering machine or something then it would still be worth just plugging it in the analogue port.

But if you have a simple one like ours, I should be able to just use the base unit as a charging stand and re-pair the handset with the router. Cuts out the analogue middle-man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG-QMvlMBj0&t=80s

OFC the FritzBox is from a company that makes routers so is likely to adopt standards. I don't know what a BT Homehub would do.


Edit: I see BT do a phone adaptor box for their router. Wonder what it actually is and if it can be used with other routers: https://shop.bt.com/products/bt-digi...0121-GN1T.html

I did look for a DECT to analogue phone adaptor, but only found a rather expensive Distybox 300 where it is cheaper to buy new phones!

[Saracen999]

@Iota

The battery backup bit is interesting. Thanks. The VM person that rang tobook an engieer to visit and "answer questions" might have mentioned that when I asked about power cuts, though.

To be fair, though, power outages here are pretty rare .... or more accurately, ones for long enough to notice, and/or at ties when we might notice, are rare. On average, I'd guess maybe 1 per 4 or 5 years, and of an hour or two duration.

More common here, at least until VM swapped out my old router, were internet outages. They were about as rare as flies on a fresh dog pile, in the height of summer. I started to get wound up at about 6 per day, sometimes 5-10 seconds, sometimes few minutes but an hour or two was getting more commonplace.

It came to light when VM did attend to switch out my old V3 ox for a V6 box, and then spent a week trying to get it to boot and configure. On one visit, we got clos making up the spare bed for the poor sod of an engoneer that drew the short straw and got our call. It turned out to be am engineer's worst nightmare - several diggerent issues, all happening semi-simaltaneously, but intermittently, ONE of which was an intermittently failing old router. Once that was swapped, everything else fell into place.

BUT .... it's one reason why I do not want the "old" landline swapped for VOIP. While we've had a very occassional landline fault over the last, oh, 35 years or so, it has by and large been rock solid, which is more than I can say for VM internet. The latter, when it's working works extremely well, but my personal experience has been ...., well, being haritable, "patchy".

Having a reliable phone service is, to us, FAR more important than broadband, and far, far, far more important than any form of TV. If I could switch to a different service provider and stay with copper landline, I would do so in a heartbeat. But it appears to not b an option. THat, it appears, is not VM's fault but our wonderful government's idea to switch us all to VOIP, whether we like it r not.

And yeah, by 2025. What VM told me is that everybody will be swutched by then at the latest, but here, our switchovr date is .... I think they said end-April, but it could've been early May, this year. My options, it was stated prety bluntly, were switch over or don't, but they're turning off the old phone service in a few weeks either way, so switch to VOIP, switch to a different company or just go without.

Are you lot all from the past? Do you still use phone boxes? Still send faxes? Watch DVDs? Use an A-Z map? Send letters? Heat your house with coal?

Live in the past? Yup, pretty much whenever possible. Phone boxes? Not sure I ever used one. Faxes? Well no .... but I do still have a functioning fax machine (in a box in the loft). My understanding is that until recently, by which I mean a few (maybe 5 at most) at least SOME functions of the NHS wee though.

DVD's? Oh, hell yeah. I've bought about half a dozen boxed sets, latest being Battlestar Galactica, in the last couple of months. Got my eye on Babylon 5, but waiting for a 'sale' offer. And why not? I have the hardware, including a couple of good quality players, and three HD/DVD recorders, not to mention a personal library of, oh, about 3000 DVDs. Increasingly, they might be getting ripped onto the Emby server I might have on a NAS.

Sure, lots of people just pay for Netflix or whatever and I might too if starting from here. But the faxt remains I already have that large library of films and TV shows, and can keep myself fully amused with that and a bit of Youtube. I don't really even want a TV licence (but domestic management does or it'd have been cancelled by now) let alone a Netflix (plus Amazon, Disney, and whatever the hell all the others are) subscription. I have friends paying £100 a month in various 'media' subscriptions. I'd rather buy a few CDs or DVDs here and there to get new stuff I may want (mainly films) or fill an existing hole (like Babylon 5 or Galactica).

Coal? Nope .... but the father-in-law was a miner, if that counts.

[DanceswithUnix]

Having a reliable phone service is, to us, FAR more important than broadband, and far, far, far more important than any form of TV. If I could switch to a different service provider and stay with copper landline, I would do so in a heartbeat. But it appears to not b an option. THat, it appears, is not VM's fault but our wonderful government's idea to switch us all to VOIP, whether we like it r not.

I don't really think you can judge internet reliability on the basis of VM's network. Their network seems to be a duct taped-up patchwork of all the different networks that NTL bought up 20 years ago run by people who want to be doing something else. I see constant local social media posts asking if VM is down for everyone else in the area.

I've been working from home for the last 25 years, so a stable connection to the office is important to me. I started on dial-up and voice calls, but I've had cable modems, radio leased lines and various dsl setups to VPN in. FTTC has been really solid, and Zen's backhaul excellent. The couple of problems we've had with the OpenReach bit over the last decade have been at the exchange and cabinet and I think in both cases (certainly one) were some numpty human pulled the wrong cables and disconnected us by mistake rather than a hardware failure. I expect that's part of the drive to replace the copper. If you get to peek into the local cabinet, it is a complete mess in there, it is all manually configured by connecting cables to patch panels in a way that looks time consuming & error prone. I get why the copper needs to go.

[Jonj1611]

VM went down countrywide last night and wasn't up again until just after 9am. Not that you would have been able to found out anything. Virgin's network status page was down as well

[Saracen999]

I don't really think you can judge internet reliability on the basis of VM's network. Their network seems to be a duct taped-up patchwork of all the different networks that NTL bought up 20 years ago run by people who want to be doing something else. I see constant local social media posts asking if VM is down for everyone else in the area.

I've been working from home for the last 25 years, so a stable connection to the office is important to me. I started on dial-up and voice calls, but I've had cable modems, radio leased lines and various dsl setups to VPN in. FTTC has been really solid, and Zen's backhaul excellent. The couple of problems we've had with the OpenReach bit over the last decade have been at the exchange and cabinet and I think in both cases (certainly one) were some numpty human pulled the wrong cables and disconnected us by mistake rather than a hardware failure. I expect that's part of the drive to replace the copper. If you get to peek into the local cabinet, it is a complete mess in there, it is all manually configured by connecting cables to patch panels in a way that looks time consuming & error prone. I get why the copper needs to go.

Similar on the history here. Home office and self-employed since the 80s.

As for judging internet reliability on the basis of VMs network, that wasn't quite what I was doing. I was judging MY interest in going VOIP, based on MY experience with MY internet reliability, with the service provider I'm currently (and for a few years, now with.

I wasn't suggesting VOIP, in geeral was a bad idea .... or wasn't, either, for that matter. I was referring to the fact that I am being forced to switch, like it or not, and that I don't like it, and why I don't like it. I do of course, have the option of compltely changing my telephone, broadband and TV content provider. Believe me, I'm oh so tempted. Given that conventional landlines are being (according to VM) turned off nationally (by 2025) anyway, I'm tempted to go to a solely celluar setup, with phone and a cellular modem on my network router. The problem is the wife wants her TV, and I susect you know my thughts about mobile phones but be assured, the wife is 10 times less happy with them than I am, and to date, refuses point blank to have one. Me? I'd give up conventional TV and/or Sky/Virgin etc without hesitation and rely on my own media selection, on radio, and on the occasional bit of online TV like YT etc (on an on-demand basis).

But given the wife's preferences, I can't, really. Next best, for us, is ... "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Our current telephone service, for our needs, ain't broke, so I'd much rather it wasn't "fixed" by VOIP, noting that itis not a one-for-one replacement and, while it may certainly be argued to be better in some ways, it isn't for us.

There are also several several .... question-marks .... which, when VM rang us to tell us we were being switched, they were not able to answer. Oh, and that phone call to arrange the engineer visit to switch us over arrived, by the way, while we both had stinking head colds and felt like crap, and absolutely out of the blue. No advance warning of the impending change, no little leaflet or letter explaining what what happening .... absolutey ZIP, before "is Tuesday week convenient for our engineer to switch you over?"

And when I asked about :-

- what about power failures?
- what about phone service when our internet connection is down?
- what about devices connected to the phone, like our Truecall call blocker, or medical alerts, or alarms ....?

Well, the response amounted to "Dunno, but how's Tuesday week to switch you over"

As you might imagine, my response was ..... a bit blunt.

So while I agree I certainly can't judge national internet reliability based either on my experience, or on VMs network, I can judge our own situation here, based on our own direct experience.

We have had issues, recently. Quite a lot of them. We could respond to that by switching service provider, to BT, or whomever. But to do so involves all the usual hassle of doing that and having done it several times in the past, including on the last occasion telling Sky that if they wanted me to pay their last invoice, despite the paperwork chain of notifications I have, sue me and I'll see you in court over it. They didn't. I doubt they'd welcome me (or this address) back with much enthusiasm though, ad for my part, hell will freeze over firat.

In short, we're content with things being left as they are, but it isn't an option. It was very poorly handled. My own research says some of those issues are probably a non-event (like the Truecall box) but I won't know for sure until the switch, but some, like lack of phone if the internet is down (for me) are goig to be an issue and, short of having dual routes to the internet (which my network router will do) there isn't a solution. No internet (here) means no VM phone either, which is not currently the case. And that matters to us much more than any benefits of VOIP, to us.

So, tough on us. Am I happy about it? Nope. Will it matter that I'm not? Also nope.

[Saracen999]

VM went down countrywide last night and wasn't up again until just after 9am. Not that you would have been able to found out anything. Virgin's network status page was down as well

That does some explaining. Thanks.

[Jonatron]

It's not a bad idea to have a backup 4G/5G connection. You've got dongles, routers, and mifi as options instead of a mobile phone. It's not expensive either.

[Hoonigan]

VM went down countrywide last night and wasn't up again until just after 9am. Not that you would have been able to found out anything. Virgin's network status page was down as well

Mine went down at 2:00, came back up around 13:00, went down again around 15:00, came back again around 16:00 then was off until about 19:30 then was very ropey until later in the evening.

We're moving ISP next Friday and I can't wait!

[Jonj1611]

Limited as to what I can get where I am. VM offers the fastest speed by a long shot. 1GB I can get with VM. Fastest with anyone else is 40Mbps and even then you are lucky to get that. I know as I tried in the past.

[Apex]

It's not a bad idea to have a backup 4G/5G connection. You've got dongles, routers, and mifi as options instead of a mobile phone. It's not expensive either.

Up untill everything is shared on that platform.......

This VoIP stuff and it not working if there is a power outage leaves me feel very cold at the idea.

[Iota]

Again, it's only parents and "Windows Support" that phone the landline so tempting to junk it, but for those occasional long phone calls I find the desktop handset is so much more comfortable than a mobile.

Oh I love those Windows Support calls..... "So how does that work when I'm using Linux?" tends to end them quickly.

Are you lot all from the past? Do you still use phone boxes? Still send faxes? Watch DVDs? Use an A-Z map? Send letters? Heat your house with coal?

Yes, no, yes, yes, yes and not since living in London when I had a lovely open fireplace.

This is essentially what you'll need to do, I think. Have a 'master' DECT phone plugged into the router, & then other DECT handsets connected to that. It is certainly wasteful - there'll be a huge amount of 'ewaste' generated from redundant conventional landline phones.

I'm actually glad to get rid of the old handset, I've never liked it. However it was "old person" friendly, so I didn't have to provide tech support for it.... hmmm.

it's one reason why I do not want the "old" landline swapped for VOIP. While we've had a very occassional landline fault over the last, oh, 35 years or so, it has by and large been rock solid, which is more than I can say for VM internet. The latter, when it's working works extremely well, but my personal experience has been ...., well, being haritable, "patchy".

That's the concern I guess, I had similar issues when I was on VM at the old property, when the internet went down, the whole sodding lot went down including the phone. I'd prefer staying on copper for the landline personally.

The couple of problems we've had with the OpenReach bit over the last decade have been at the exchange and cabinet and I think in both cases (certainly one) were some numpty human pulled the wrong cables and disconnected us by mistake rather than a hardware failure. I expect that's part of the drive to replace the copper. If you get to peek into the local cabinet, it is a complete mess in there, it is all manually configured by connecting cables to patch panels in a way that looks time consuming & error prone. I get why the copper needs to go.

I've seen in our local cabinet, it is indeed a complete and utter mess. The problems also arise when a clumsy fingered engineer accidentally loosens some of the wrong wires while patching other parts up. It looks like a nightmare to maintain.

It's not a bad idea to have a backup 4G/5G connection. You've got dongles, routers, and mifi as options instead of a mobile phone. It's not expensive either.

I can always piggy back my own 4G (I'd say 5G, but the backside of beyond rural fields in the middle of absolutely nowhere have that and not my town.....), considering it's unlimited. I did consider paying the extra £7 per month to have that option. I'll keep it under review and see how reliable it is before tying myself into that one.

[jimbouk]

Ugh, I'm assuming as they've been upgrading someone today but we've been experiencing regular drop outs. Real pita working from home when someone unplugs the cable, plugs it in again, wiggles it around. If it wasn't raining so much I would have wondered round to the box to ask them to stop. FTTC has been rock solid 80/20 for us when they're not messing around. I guess the bundle of wires should be a bit neater with FTTP..

Backup mobile is becoming more of a necessity, my wife just teathered her laptop to mobile which got her stable, harder with desktop. Don't really want another contract so not sure what the best option is - might be a Bluetooth dongle for simplicity (or I switch to my laptop).

But yeah, if the mobile towers are connecting the same way then they won't really be a backup. Not sure how everything is going to be wired up anymore...?

[Saracen999]

Yup, VM has been up and down for me over the last day or so like, um, a lady of the night's underwear.