FTTP Broadband Question.

[Jonj1611]

Oh upload, sorry need to learn to read properly. My upload is 21ms

[DanceswithUnix]

Didn't check upload latency before - apparently 180ms which was good for a 56k modem... what's everyone else's showing at?

Upload latency is an interesting figure.

People usually measure round trip time, so up and down latency combined as you can easily and reliably measure that. To single out just one half? That would require a good local time source, and whilst NTP can *usually* get you to within 1ms of the actual time you can't rely on it as NTP servers make an assumption of a symmetrical internet connection which is approximately true on domestic Internet when it is almost idle.

I could measure latency, as I have a GPS locked raspberry pi as a time server (in a 3d printed Tardis case ofc ) if I knew I was talking to something GPS locked at the other end. That's kind of what I do for a living, but with video sources.

180ms is a sky high figure, so I have to wonder if it is a measurement anomaly or you had a vpn turned on. My 76/18 Mbps FTTC ping time to Zen is about 12ms, so about 6ms upload latency.

[Jonj1611]

I was using this : https://speed.cloudflare.com/

[Iota]

That one produces some interesting results, certainly a big disparity between download speed that I see using my routers built in speed test (Amplifi Alien) which shows 526.6/75.4. Compared to the one you showed which gives 428.97/61 (probably file size related I'm guessing).

Latency 9.25ms
Download 10.8ms Upload 13.3ms

Jitter 2.23ms
Download 5.26ms Upload 7.15ms

[Jonj1611]

The download speed I was getting was half my usual speed. Not sure why

[jimbouk]

Ah interesting. https://speed.cloudflare.com/ gives some more context around the figured that https://www.speedtest.net/ doesn't:

Latency
7.00 ms
During download loaded connection
18.0 ms
During upload loaded connection
218 ms

I will just have to avoid saturating my upload link when gaming!

[DanceswithUnix]

Ah, latency during a big download or upload. That makes sense and is kind of useful.

Interestingly, upload latency is down to how the router at your end is queuing packets to send. You might find a QoS setting somewhere on the router to make gaming traffic (and pings) overtake bulk web data in the queue and improve that 218ms figure.

The cloudflare site is currently showing for me 69.1Mbps up, 14.9Mbps down and a latency of 28.0 with 41.1 during download and 34.4 during upload. My powerline ethernet bridge failed yesterday, so I'm on a Tp-Link Deco X20 mesh node which is bouncing via wifi to the node in the conservatory and from there via wifi back to the root node plugged into the main network switch. I'm rather shocked the mesh is that good.

Will do another measurement this evening when the replacement powerline adaptors turns up.

[Millennium]

What an interesting thread and a wonderful link to Speed.Cloudflare.Com . Here, for anyone's interest, is the current result at 6:25am Monday 31st July 2023 for VodaFone FTTC VDSL2 (?) 40down/10up 8N1 1024*[40||10]*8 bit service. 8N1 means that each 2 nibble 8 bit byte takes around 10 bits of mapped to analogue Information to send as I understand it and dates back to DialUp services.

Please be aware if you are currently claiming most all UK benefits this service is available at the new bargain price for broadband of 12 UKP / month. However, I have noticed Quite a lot of contention (slowing downed) on Friday PM Saturday AM and even Thursday PM. I made a thread about it on ThinkBroadband, here.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...ROenR4dWJ4ZGpn

[DanceswithUnix]

8N1 means that each 2 nibble 8 bit byte takes around 10 bits of mapped to analogue Information to send as I understand it and dates back to DialUp services.

It does mean that, but I don't believe VDSL/VDSL2 systems encode bytes like that and basically send ethernet frames.

[Saracen999]

What an interesting thread and a wonderful link to Speed.Cloudflare.Com . ....

agreed on both points. I'veseen that speed test used and kept meaning to get round to it. Now have. Pretty charts. And yup, useful data, inc the CSV download. Will probably play with that, in Excel (well, Libre version thereof).

The silly bit? I switched to Cloudfare for DNS ages ago, and only just got around to that test. Busy life, y'know. Or .... might've been a sieve-like memory.

EDIT

357Mbps down, 19.1Mbps up.
18ms overall latency, 4.16ms jitter. 0% packet loss.

Done from laptop, three switches away from router.
Virgin 350 service, I think.

[AGTDenton]

Yep +1 on the Cloudflare site.

My Cloudflare results on 1gbps Up and 1gpbs down with Zzoomm

784Mbps D, 536Mbps U. (Speedtest does go higher here, but I guess we're not comparing apples with apples)

Latency 5.00ms
Download 5.00ms Upload 5.00ms

Jitter 1.37ms
Download 2.75ms Upload 2.10ms

Packet Loss Test not working for me... I'll try a different browser soon.

I have hit the limits of my router though, according to Speed test I'm at 940mbps down and 960mbps up so I'll take that. Normally with Zzoomm you get over the speed you pay for, so when I was on their 500 package, I was actually getting 560mbps U/D.

I am starting the hunt for a new router, especially as mine is out of date and no more firmware.

[DanceswithUnix]

784Mbps D, 536Mbps U. (Speedtest does go higher here, but I guess we're not comparing apples with apples)
.

I often wonder with Speedtest if ISPs optimise for it.

Cloudflare OTOH, well as a delivery network that actual browsing goes through it should represent real world performance.

[Saracen999]

....

My Cloudflare results on 1gbps Up and 1gpbs down with Zzoomm

....

Hmmm. Looks like very good speed outta them, and having just taken a look, pretty good pricing for that. I'd never heard of them, but that's no surprise really, having never looked. Been with VM for a while but the last year or two, there's been one thing after another and I'm not wildly impressed right now. They're not a disaster for me, and I'm not desperate to dump them (especially given phone line which yes, I still want (for now) and 'er indoors TV package comes from them too.

However, I'm working on the TV bit. Currently, both Plex and Emby running, I'm adding slowly both to home-served content and to "live" services, and trying to sneak up on her TV viewing by showing her that a) a VM/Sky type package is not only not the only way but not necessarily even the best way, and b) that as she's been using it for months anyway, it ain't exactly scary hard either. At least, not to use. Getting my head around setting it up has been, at times, a brain-teaser even for me and I'm the techie one of the two of us.

I'm even starting to wonder, given that VM have now forced me onto a VOIP line, against my wishes, just why I need to stay with VM, given that. Any decent, reliable VOIP provider will do. Dunno, still ruminating about that.

Add that Zzoomm type data connection and, well, hmmm .....

And yup, the forum's arch-fuddy-duddy just MIGHT be sticking a cautious toe into the waters of the 2010's. I'll worry about 2020's if I like the temp of that water.

[AGTDenton]

I often wonder with Speedtest if ISPs optimise for it.

Cloudflare OTOH, well as a delivery network that actual browsing goes through it should represent real world performance.

Yeah it wouldn't surprised me with Speedtest, when they installed it last year they were adamant in using a specific server for the best results, which was further away than the closest server that it would default to.

Either way, I've had no known down time and it has never been slow.

Hmmm. Looks like very good speed outta them, and having just taken a look, pretty good pricing for that. I'd never heard of them, but that's no surprise really, having never looked. Been with VM for a while but the last year or two, there's been one thing after another and I'm not wildly impressed right now. They're not a disaster for me, and I'm not desperate to dump them (especially given phone line which yes, I still want (for now) and 'er indoors TV package comes from them too.

However, I'm working on the TV bit. Currently, both Plex and Emby running, I'm adding slowly both to home-served content and to "live" services, and trying to sneak up on her TV viewing by showing her that a) a VM/Sky type package is not only not the only way but not necessarily even the best way, and b) that as she's been using it for months anyway, it ain't exactly scary hard either. At least, not to use. Getting my head around setting it up has been, at times, a brain-teaser even for me and I'm the techie one of the two of us.

I'm even starting to wonder, given that VM have now forced me onto a VOIP line, against my wishes, just why I need to stay with VM, given that. Any decent, reliable VOIP provider will do. Dunno, still ruminating about that.

Add that Zzoomm type data connection and, well, hmmm .....

And yup, the forum's arch-fuddy-duddy just MIGHT be sticking a cautious toe into the waters of the 2010's. I'll worry about 2020's if I like the temp of that water.

They are very small, but growing. Still only 2 people on the phone for our area but they get through the calls quickly.
When I originally asked to upgrade from my 450/450 connection @ £48 to 1000/1000 @ £30 they'd accidently put me on their 500/500 package, when I realised I phoned them up and she sorted it all within the hour and I've not restarted my contract or anything. So I happpily paid £25 for 2 months. I'd initially blamed my router for the slow speeds because it had been playing up (and still is).

Unlike most ISPs existing customers are actually elgible for deals once their contract has finished. None of this you have to not been a customer for 12/24 months rubbish. I know a few people that bounce around Sky/Virgin to get the best deals on their TV/Internet.

With all these smaller companies like Trooli, Gigaclear, CityFibre, Zzoomm etc... they will eventually all merge and the good service and contracts will disappear over time as they become like any other ISP. They do the right thing now to get the customers on board, once the shareholders all see the numbers it will create the next wave of investments then buyouts and mergers will begin. Which having spoken to both Trooli & Zzoomm people it's already started. So I'm getting in while I can and while it's good.

[Apex]

VM Connection - M250

My Broadband Ping



Seems to be about the 20/25 ms unloaded

AAISP vDSL Connection FTTC 80/20 - currently at 75/20

My Broadband Ping



Was up in the 25ms unloaded but since a outtage and a visit from OR to reset the port profile this resulted in the line sync being 75 from 60 and taking the ping down to 12ms avg

[Hoonigan]

I dunno what I'm doing wrong but those ThinkBroadband tests can be misleading sometimes