Feasable network....???

[kieran]

Ok, so im moving into a flat for university in september and some of my other friends will be living in the flat directly beneath me. Would it be possible to set up a wireless network to share a broadband connection through the ceiling between 8 computers?

If this is possible, what hardware/software will i need to purchase to set this up? I'm assuming it'll just be a wireless router, wireless cards for each individual computer, and the ISP software. Is this right?

Would speeds could be achieved when 8 computers would be sharing... would it just be the total connection, for example, 2mg divided by 8?

Also, any recommedations for ISp's and hardware would be much appreciated.

[Jonny M]

I'd say just string a Cat5 cable out the window, faster, more secure, less hassle, etc.

Go gigabit with this one, you will fill it with file swapping no doubt.

[TheAnimus]

cable.

cheap, fast, reliable, secure.

[Paul Adams]

Ok, so im moving into a flat for university in september and some of my other friends will be living in the flat directly beneath me. Would it be possible to set up a wireless network to share a broadband connection through the ceiling between 8 computers?

Possible, most likely.
Recommended? Not really.
Wireless access points are comparable to a "hub" of old - all the clients share the bandwidth between them - so one person doing a whopping file copy between 2 local machines could potentially suck up the lion share of the bandwidth.
Also, the quoted speed of wireless networks is the theoretical maximum, in practical terms you are fortunate to get 50% of that in data throughput.

If this is possible, what hardware/software will i need to purchase to set this up? I'm assuming it'll just be a wireless router, wireless cards for each individual computer, and the ISP software. Is this right?

Remove the word "wireless" from the above paragraph and add a switch for the lower flat, then run a CAT5e cable down between the flats and you are good to go.
i.e.
- Each client needs a network card
- A broadband router (with built-in ADSL modem if required) is placed in the upstairs flat
- A switch is placed in the lower flat and connected to the router
- Connect the router to the switch with a single CAT5e cable
- Connect clients in the upstairs flat to the router's built-in switch
- Connect clients in the downstairs flat to their local switch

Would speeds could be achieved when 8 computers would be sharing... would it just be the total connection, for example, 2mg divided by 8?

In the wired scenario, assuming the clients were all downloading from the same Internet site using the same protocol, then I would expect it to be split evenly yes.
In reality, different sites have different available bandwidth and latency so people can experience different download speeds just because of where the server is.

Also, any recommedations for ISp's and hardware would be much appreciated.

Can't comment here as Sweden has different ISPs, and my current 100Mbps Internet connection is fed straight to my apartment through an RJ45 cable into one of my switches.
For the switches it depends on your budget - I use gigabit cards for my private network connected to an SMC gigabit switch, and my machines have onboard 100Mbps ports connected to a D-Link gigabit switch on the Internet side as the bottleneck is the Internet connection.
If gigabit kit is a bit expensive, I have used unbranded 100Mbps PCI cards connected to D-Link, Netgear, Linksys, 3Com and Genius switches in the past - there was no difference in performance as the technology is so primitve for a switch.

Just remember that in the above scenario, you would use a port on the router and a port on the switch to connect the 2 - so if the router has a "built-in 4 port switch" then you can connect 3 clients in the upstairs flat, and if the downstairs switch is 8 ports then you can connect 7 machines down there.

[TheAnimus]

erm newer wireless uses MIMO so its not as you've described Paul.

But i think we're all in agreement cable is the best bet.

[Paul Adams]

erm newer wireless uses MIMO so its not as you've described Paul.

Even MIMO has contention surely?
They increased the throughput with multiple antennae, but ultimately there is only so much bandwidth to go round, and it is shared - and the currently measured figures I saw are 216Mbps signalling rate with 100Mbps data throughput.

I've not played with any MIMO or pre-N APs or routers, but I would be surprised if 2 pairs of wireless clients could achieve the same throughput simultaneously as 1 pair through the 1 AP?

Unless I misunderstood it, of course (entirely possible, I don't particularly like wireless technology in its current state).

[chrestomanci]

Ok, so im moving into a flat for university in september and some of my other friends will be living in the flat directly beneath me. Would it be possible to set up a wireless network to share a broadband connection through the ceiling between 8 computers?

In a modern building, the floors will be made of renforced concrete. The metal mesh will be very effective at blocking WiFi signals. This will not be a problem in an older building, built before about 1960.

Also, any recommedations for ISp's and hardware would be much appreciated.

You might want to check out zen as they will allocate you a block of static IP addresses to you on request. This would allow each computer in your network to have a publicly accessable IP address, which will make online gaming easier to setup. You will need to make sure that your router is sutable.

[kieran]

Possible, most likely.
Recommended? Not really.
Wireless access points are comparable to a "hub" of old - all the clients share the bandwidth between them - so one person doing a whopping file copy between 2 local machines could potentially suck up the lion share of the bandwidth.
Also, the quoted speed of wireless networks is the theoretical maximum, in practical terms you are fortunate to get 50% of that in data throughput.


Remove the word "wireless" from the above paragraph and add a switch for the lower flat, then run a CAT5e cable down between the flats and you are good to go.
i.e.
- Each client needs a network card
- A broadband router (with built-in ADSL modem if required) is placed in the upstairs flat
- A switch is placed in the lower flat and connected to the router
- Connect the router to the switch with a single CAT5e cable
- Connect clients in the upstairs flat to the router's built-in switch
- Connect clients in the downstairs flat to their local switch


In the wired scenario, assuming the clients were all downloading from the same Internet site using the same protocol, then I would expect it to be split evenly yes.
In reality, different sites have different available bandwidth and latency so people can experience different download speeds just because of where the server is.


Can't comment here as Sweden has different ISPs, and my current 100Mbps Internet connection is fed straight to my apartment through an RJ45 cable into one of my switches.
For the switches it depends on your budget - I use gigabit cards for my private network connected to an SMC gigabit switch, and my machines have onboard 100Mbps ports connected to a D-Link gigabit switch on the Internet side as the bottleneck is the Internet connection.
If gigabit kit is a bit expensive, I have used unbranded 100Mbps PCI cards connected to D-Link, Netgear, Linksys, 3Com and Genius switches in the past - there was no difference in performance as the technology is so primitve for a switch.

Just remember that in the above scenario, you would use a port on the router and a port on the switch to connect the 2 - so if the router has a "built-in 4 port switch" then you can connect 3 clients in the upstairs flat, and if the downstairs switch is 8 ports then you can connect 7 machines down there.

Thanks for the suggestion, however as the flats are only rented student accomodation, i dont think that drilling holes through floors/walls and laying cables is really a good idea. Thats why i was suggesting wireless really to avoid all the installation.

[herulach]

Thanks for the suggestion, however as the flats are only rented student accomodation, i dont think that drilling holes through floors/walls and laying cables is really a good idea. Thats why i was suggesting wireless really to avoid all the installation.

Youll find that if youre nice to the site manager then you wont need to bother, infirst year we networked an entire block, just because we did a favour for the site manager + helped him paint the bar, he let us into the ducting so we could run cables everywhere, worked out pretty well, although it took a while to figure out why the link that ran past the leg sized bundle of powercables wasnt working right.

[aidanjt]

...although it took a while to figure out why the link that ran past the leg sized bundle of powercables wasnt working right.

lol, electrical physics suck don't it

[Paul Adams]

Thanks for the suggestion, however as the flats are only rented student accomodation, i dont think that drilling holes through floors/walls and laying cables is really a good idea. Thats why i was suggesting wireless really to avoid all the installation.

Cable through the windows not an option?
When I was at uni we ran a coaxial cable between 3 rooms across 2 buildings and draped it round a phone line, my room was in the middle so I had 2 cables going through my window

I guess it could be a security problem if you are on the ground floor though :/

[herulach]

lol, electrical physics suck don't it

Thing is, we were all physics students as well, (well, 6 physics + one philosophy)

Cable through the windows not an option?
When I was at uni we ran a coaxial cable between 3 rooms across 2 buildings and draped it round a phone line, my room was in the middle so I had 2 cables going through my window

I guess it could be a security problem if you are on the ground floor though :/

Its all fun and games till it rains and you end up with a massive puddle on your kitchen floor

[TheAnimus]

well the philosophy person can argue that the walls don't excist

and the physicists can think how you arrange the cable, so there's a U shaped bit just before it goes in the window, then tape some card to stop drips running into the window, and what happens is all the water collects at the base of the U and drips harmlessly.

[Norky]

How about 2 wired switches on each floor, then 2 wireless APs/bridges (one connected to each switch) providing a link between the 2?

[TheAnimus]

How about 2 wired switches on each floor, then 2 wireless APs/bridges (one connected to each switch) providing a link between the 2?

Cost++;
Latency++;
Security--;

[aidanjt]

Security--;
+Bandwidth--;
+signal_integridy--;

overall, wireless just plain sucks.. also Microwaves don't like concrete too much, even less so when its reenforced with steal. If you can get your site manager drunk enough I'm sure he'll agree to the benifits of Cat5 installation.