Hitting back by NOT voting

[Nick]

Last week there was a local by-election.

In the previous few weeks running up to it, we've had flyers posted through the door on a near daily basis telling us how good a particular candidate would be for the job and why they deserved my vote.

So, in the interests of the environment, I've done the decent thing and stuffed them all into the recycling bin without even giving them a glance.

Why?

Well, you'll get the answer if you read on a bit more.

You see, once it was the actual week of the election, I started getting knocks on the door, this time from various party members wanting know if I knew there was an election on and did I know who I was going to vote for... all an oblique way of trying to bring the conversation around to why I should vote for their candidate.

And they all got the same set of answers:

No, I'll not be voting.

I'll be abstaining from voting on the grounds that all politicians, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, have to prove that they're worth me spending my time going to vote for them.. because the only time I ever hear from them is when they want me to vote and keep them in their job. And, once they're voted in, what is it they actually do? Seems to me they achieve bugger all before the next round of elections come up.

I'm talking about local and district council levels of politics here, not the big general elections (which I'll get to later).

At local levels, the difference between party majorities is much smaller. So whilst Labour steamrollered through loads of changes after their landslide win back in '97, locally things were a bit tougher.

And tougher means more expensive.

Don't forget that our taxes pay for these guys to stand in council chambers and argue over new initiatives, schemes and decisions, and at local level there's rarely a party majority to force through a motion... which means that even the simplest thing can take much longer to get through, if it even gets past at all.

And all the time this costs us money. If you actually sat down and figured out how much it costs to keep these councillors and MPs in pay, with all their expenses and then compared that with waht they actually achieve, you'd sack the lot of them.

A shelf stacker in Tescos earning just above minimum wage is more productive and gives more to society from lining up tins of tomatoes then these self-important politicos braying at each other about whether or not the local park should be mown twice a month in the summer.

Then there's the fact that your candidate represents a political party.

Personally, I think that the invasion of Iraq was illegal and whilst I fully support our troops over there and in Afghanistan, I reckon we've opened up a massive complex can of worms that could well NEVER be sorted out without decades of unrest... If our government were the bunch of humanitarians they'd have us believe they are, why haven't we waded into Sudan to stop the civil war and genocide there? Why aren't we invading North Korea with it's expanding nuclear technology?

And let's not get started on the enormous privatisation of practically every public service. Or PFI schemes that mean we pay twice as much for half the service we used to have... with costs only set to rise and services to fall.

Or there's the middle-management consultancy mindset that siphons off literally BILLIONS of pounds of public money pumped into public services, all because some company somewhere has managed to convince the politicians that paying them vast sums of money will result in less costs and more efficient services.

So, putting these arguments to each canvasser as a way of explaining why I was not going to vote would, I hoped, feed some sort of message back to the party heads, even at a local level... but you know what... none of them listened.

No, as soon as it became clear to them that I was a lost cause, they moved on... they stopped listening, muttered a few words to the effect of "I see, very interesting..." then made their excuses and left.

So, did I waste my vote?

Not at all. I didn't vote for anyone and I feel that was a vote well used.

Sure, I'm one man out of millions and as such, my vote, whether I use it or not, will make little impact. But I take satisfaction from the fact that the self-serving ingrates who are now running the council are not doing it through any contribution from me.

But I have a much better, still democratic system which would mean that all politicians would have to REALLY work to win votes.

It's quite simple. Everyone is issued with a special £20 note. You can use this as your ballot paper or just cash it in at the bank for £20.

So now the politicians have REALLY got to convince you that their worth you throwing away £20 of your money on them.

Better still, those same politicians salaries are set by the number of votes they get... each vote giving them £20.

This'd mean lower taxes for us as we've already paid for the braying donkeys when we voted and it also means that people who enter politics because they REALLY want to change things rather than just get on the gravy train are going to be the only people prepared to becoming a councillor or MP.

Sure, there's a few flaws that need working out but believe me, if you ever want to see a politician actually do some real bloody work and give you good value for money, it's the only way it's going to happen.

But until the day comes when we see these nest-lining conmen doing some real work, my vote is staying firmly with me.

[pollaxe]

I'm in pretty much exactly the same frame of mind (and have posted as such elsewhere) about not voting.

[Lucio]

Wonder how long it is before Nick disappears in a small black unmarked van where a couple of large men show him what policians really achive *

*The previous statement is meant as a joke, I'm not really a conspiracy nut


More seriously, the one thing with politics is you only get out as much as you put in. For example, there was trouble in my family and the long & short of it, me and my family was about to loose our home. If it hadn't been for my mum keeping onto our local councellor and him using his influence to sort us out, we would have been homeless. Let's not forget that politicians are still human beings, and some of them really do try and get things sorted when there's no one else.


The system isn't quite as broken as you make out, it's not perfect but it keeps ticking over when many alternatives would have fallen flat by now. Ultimately it's the sin of capitalism, for the oppertunity to exsist for anyone to make money, you must accept that some people will make money. For all the governments "wastefullness" remember that the money is supported one or more human beings. It might not be you, but our system says it *could* be you, if only things were a little different. More importantly, the money comes back in a myriad of small ways, after all my fiancee's a nurse, paid for by taxes, I sell items to shops which are bought by all types of people, including those who benefit from my taxes. The system continues to flow with money moving back and forth.

Personally, I vote and will continue to vote because I beleive that whilst local politicians might just be bad people, they can also be good people and I'd like a say in whom I believe to be the better man. Sure I can be wrong, but hell, that one vote might make the difference between a tyrant and a martyr getting into power.

[Saracen]

I'd seriously like to see a "None of the Above" party.

The Manifesto :

We plan to do :-

- nothing
- zilch
- zip
- nada
- sweet FA.

If you elect us, we won't "represent your interests". We won't even take our seats.

The point of voting for us? To express your dissatisfaction with ALL the existing parties and candidates.

I agree with Nick.

[redlight]

Nick and Saracen if you feel so strongly about it why dont you stand yourselves.
At least you wont be disappointed when nobody can be bothered voting for you.

[Nick]

I've no problem with anyone making a living from being a politician but hell, are they REALLY worth it?

I mean, take a look at the salaries and what they actually achieve, and the expenses they all claim for... and what ACTUALLY gets done?

Want some examples?

Ok, the local Mayor here got elected on a promise of changing the dustbin collections from once a fortnight back to once a week. He was an independent. Once he had been elected he aligned himself with the Tories and then, when asked what he was doing about the bin collections, he said he had only promised to review the collections, not change them. He's now the subject of a vote of no confidence... but still, he's had two years of chauffeur driven Audis and all the usual benefits of a feted Mayor...

Want a national example?

Two Jags Prescott.

Or how about Peter Mandleson... in and out of government after one scandal or another.

Even the PM's wife was at it with dodgy flat deals.

Seems to me that these politicians and I mean ALL politicians from local council on up to parliament and even European Parliament have utterly forgotten or chosen to ignore the fact that they're there to serve the people.

And I strongly believe that we're not being served in any way by any of them.

If we were being listened to, I'd be able to walk down the street and not see the local park over-run with weeds.

If we were being listened to, we would never have followed America into Iraq.

If we were being listened to, PFIs running vital services such as school meals, school budgets, the NHS and other CRUCIAL public services would just not have been allowed.

If we were being listened to, companies supposedly supplying services to the public sector would be receiving massive pay-offs when they fail to deliver on time, to specification or, in the case of BT and the NHS computer system, at all... and our taxpaying money is used to pay-off these guys with enormous golden parachutes... for delivering nothing usable whatsoever.

So no, I really don't think it's a case of the system not being as broken as I think... it's a case of the system being more broken than YOU think.

Ok, how about a couple of REALLY pertinent questions, ones which I asked nad recieved a "don't know" answer from all three major party canvassers:

What are you intending to do about house prices for first time buyers?

When are you going to hand over true self government in Iraq and withdraw our troops?

Why did we invade Iraq?

If we have such a special relationship with America, why are you not demanding the trial of the American National Guard pilots who shot up and British column, killing our troops?

And finally, will you guarantee a return to once a week bin collections?

Seeing as no-one could give me even a hint of an answer that wasn't the usual politico bullcrap, I retained my vote.

And no, I don't want to run for any sort of office, I have a job already that I'm not willing to give up and I damn sure would not be able to stand working along the exact people I refused to vote for...

[charleski]

Politics is always about choosing the lesser of two evils, big deal. That's called the Real World, sonny. Do you have any idea what democracy means? It means that if you don't like what's going on, then it's up to you to change it. Do you think that's going to happen by magic?

No, rather than getting off your ass and doing something to improve matters, you'd rather sit in the pub and moan. Very impressive.

[[GSV]Trig]

The lesser of two evils eh, I agree, we need to shock the government into listening to people and shock them into realising were pretty pissed off at them...


I'll vote for the BNP then, they'll never get into power but if enough people vote for them the two main parties might think twice...

[UltraMagnus]

personally, i would say vote for something at least mildly interesting, like the communist party or raving loony party....

hmm, on that note, why doesn't hexus start its own political party? that could be interesting

[Nick]

Politics is always about choosing the lesser of two evils, big deal. That's called the Real World, sonny. Do you have any idea what democracy means? It means that if you don't like what's going on, then it's up to you to change it. Do you think that's going to happen by magic?

No, rather than getting off your ass and doing something to improve matters, you'd rather sit in the pub and moan. Very impressive.

Ooh, someone's full of the keyboard warrior spirit!

Want some Real World, sonny?

Do you not think that by refusing to vote I'm NOT sending a message? Of course I am. How little of the current affairs do you know not to know that the drop in voting amongst eligible voters has become a real concern for all the parties.

I'm in no way alone in this attitude.

This isn't apathy, it's a statement!

But then, sonny, maybe you're too busy preaching to realise that, sonny.

And whilst we're on sweeping generalisations based on nothing but pure fantasy, yes, sonny, I was in the pub all day thinking that one up because my pub, sonny, has WiFi access and all I do is trawl YouTube, drink beer and then come up with half-baked ideas.... sonny.

And your reaction, though kinda unexpected, has at least served some purpose.

Listen up now sonny cos I'm talking straight to you: Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps I should've voted. But really, in the end, would have voting improved your manners or removed those vitriolic blinkers you're wearing... nah, not a bit of it. So maybe, just maybe, sonny, we'll both have to wait for some magic, eh?

Tell you what, son, (mind if I call you son instead of sonny, seems like we're at the stage where we can abbreviate it now, yeah?), so tell me, son, did you do anything worthy today? How did you vote? Vote the way the old man did cos it seemed like the right thing? Did you 'blow' your vote tactical voting? Or did you nail your colours to the mast and vote for who you believed in?

But hey, don't bother answering cos really, I don't care. No, really, I don't.

But one thing I DO care about is the right of the individual to do as they see fit.

And I respect anyone who chooses to do whatever they want to do. So if you voted, son, good for you.

But one thing I can't stand is a person, when confronted with a differing view from their own, becoming condescending keyboard warriors. So, 'sonny', are we clear?

[charleski]

Do you not think that by refusing to vote I'm NOT sending a message?

You're sending the message that politicians don't need to care what you think, because you couldn't be bothered to vote them out of office if you don't agree with them.

How little of the current affairs do you know not to know that the drop in voting amongst eligible voters has become a real concern for all the parties.

Good Lord, do you think they're going to pass up the chance to spout a high-minded sentiment on Newsnight? Of course not, that doesn't change the fact that the only thing that matters is whether they get more votes than the other guys.

I'm in no way alone in this attitude.
...
half-baked ideas.... sonny.

I can see that 'sonny' really got to you. Well, sorry about that, but ideas like this aren't new, and I was having the same debates in high school. You make statements by getting yourself heard, it's as simple as that.

But one thing I DO care about is the right of the individual to do as they see fit.

And I respect anyone who chooses to do whatever they want to do. So if you voted, son, good for you.

And that right had to be fought for. The UK didn't even have universal male suffrage until 1918, and it was only in 1928 that women received the right to vote on the same terms. This right was fought for over hundreds of years. It didn't fall into the lap of people who wanted to make a 'statement' by staying at home.

But one thing I can't stand is a person, when confronted with a differing view from their own, becoming condescending keyboard warriors.

He who smelt it, dealt it.

Sorry if you have difficulties accepting that someone disagrees with you and thinks that your position is nothing more than a betrayal of the hundreds of years of struggle that it took to establish a constitutional democracy in this country and defend it against those who would usurp it.
Sonny

[Nick]

Nah, I don;t have any problem with anyone disagreeing with me, it's the manner in which they do it that matters.

So, I'll drop the sonny references if it makes you happy.

But as to this being a democratic society, I think that's not exactly true, is it?

For example, of the last three Prime Ministers, how many did we, the public, actually vote into office?

Just the one, Tony Blair.

John Major took over power from Thatcher, Brown has taken over from Blair... I don't remember anyone asking me if I wanted Brown running the country...

Now sure, Major took over after Thatcher's own party ousted her, but surely that's still a choice of the people? And what choice were we given when Blair stood down?

And how about the cabinet itself? I mean, really, do you think that half those people really have any idea what they're doing?

No, real government is run by the unelected civil servants who, regardless of the boss, still do t e same job.

And let's not forget branches of the security forces being used as political tools.

Take the Glasgow airport bombing for example. How often have you seen firefighters going crazy over the fact an LPG (or similar) cannister is either in or too near a fire? Yet in Glasgow a 4x4 packed full of them is engulfed in flames and not one of those cannisters goes off.

So what does that tell you? That maybe special security forces have infiltrated these terrorist cells and managed to tamper with the homemade bombs? Sounds reasonable, yes?

So if they're in far enough to tamper with the cannisters, why didn't they stop the bombing in the first place?

Could it be that keeping up a terrorist presence with the occasional ineffective strike is the perfect way to add momentum to the tightening of security imposed on the British public? ID card support wavering? Point to Glasgow...

Of course, you may think this is all tin-hat conspiracy theory stuff, and yes, other than supposition, it is pure conjecture, but the point is that rarely, if ever, do you see a politician speaking about anything other than how they would've dealt with this if they'd been in power.

Just this morning on the news we had David Cameron daring Labour to go to a general election. Was he banging on about his policies? Was he telling me, in his 15 second soundbite on national TV about what he was going to do? No, he was sniping at the opposition, saying that the public had had 10 years of failure and now it was time for 5 years of change.

Seems to me that Cameron, and the rest of the Tories, have really short memories...

But that's the thing, it's all about attacking the other team and never about what they can do for ME, or YOU... just loads of crap about how bad the other guys is...

And this guy wants my vote? I'm too old for playground style name calling to win my affection and it's time that politicians stopped hiding behind spin, rhetoric and bitching and just got on and tried to make a change for what they believe is better.

And as such, I've yet to meet any politician that can convince me that they have more to them than a vacuous claim that they can do better than the other guy... which is why my vote is still in my pocket.

By the way, didn't you like the £20 ballot paper idea?

Ok, here's a different version... You pay me £20 when I go and vote.

For loads of (very likely) apathetic voters, £20 is a fair whack of dosh... bet you'll see a different demographic rolling up to polling stations with that one.

Oh and one last thought on voting... if it's so democratic, how come the High Court ruled the postal voting system was wide open to fraud and the government did nothing about it? Birmingham wasn't an isolated case... How about Leeds where canvassers 'assisting' elderly voters with postal votes were instructed to HIDE non-Labour votes?

Yep, that's democratic alright!

[Gunbuster]

I have couple of points, but I don't want to get into the main heavy debate.

- John Major did indeed initially become PM without a General Election, he did however win the 94 election so he was vote in to office by the Public, just not immediately.
- The PM is just the leader of the party in power, the leader of the opposition is the leader of that party at that time. You could bemoan that Tony Blair was never brought in as the leader of opposition by the public after John Smith died.
- You elect parties, not PMs. I would personally like this adjusted, as PMs have become so presidential in recent years.

[Nick]

Cheers Gun, cos you've made me think of something else that's not democratic... this whole thing about party whips getting MPs to vote the way the PM wants them to.

Surely, in a democratic government, the MP has to vote the way his constituency wants him to vote?

Putting pressure on an MP to vote how the PM wants him to, possibly to save face and solidify the PMs position, as we have seen in the past several times with this current government, surely this is an undemocratic system?

Which once again brings me back to the point that it's all a self-serving system being openly manipulated by those in power to serve their own needs rather than those of the electorate.