Fried memory?

[Bhavv]

Yay, selective thread reading at it's finest...

Same goes to you. Did you even bother reading the rest of my my post with examples where both G. Skill and Geil support have said overclocking their ram is fine and have still offered RMA service on fully functioning ram simply because I was unhappy with the amount it overclocked?

Probably not.

It would be nice to try and find my emails to Geil out of my hundreds of pages in my inbox, but that would be too much bother.

The actual box for G. Skill's ram says 'The Ultimate O.C.', and their own website says they make Ram for enthusiasts. Same thing with Geil, and likely for Crucial and OCZ too, except I dont have any reason and doubt I ever will to ditch G. Skill, and maybe Geil for any other brand.

[this_is_gav]

Overclocking is generally fine. What isn't fine is them supporting it through an RMA because it died through overclocking. I can pump 2.7v through my 2.1v Corsair if I want, but I'd hardly expect them to accept them back when they die after 5min.

[Bhavv]

'Lifetime warranty unless this sticker is removed' means 'Lifetime warranty unless this sticker is removed'

There isnt actually a warning anywhere saying Im not allowed to put 2.7v through my ram. Not that I could because they wouldnt even boot up with that much on cheap promos chips.

Oh, and theres some people here that can put over 2.7v through their ram just fine:

DDR2-Club 800MHZ - XtremeSystems Forums



They wont activate my account on Xtreme Systems, no idea why

[this_is_gav]

Oh. Damn. I wish I had returned mine that I dropped under that articulated lorry trailer using snow-tracks and carrying space-age spare ballast for F1 cars then. Bugger. The sticker was fine too.

Oh, and theres some people here that can put over 2.7v through their ram just fine:

DDR2-Club 800MHZ - XtremeSystems Forums

Does that show your lack of knowledge then?

If there's any RAM that's going to die quickly through any over-volting it'll be the Ballistix. A little less with DDR2 than with their DDR1 1gb sticks, but they're still falling over for fun when you pump more through them.

[Bhavv]

Thats just crazy talk, less crazy please XD

If a ram company wants to create, advertise and sell ram that is suitable for overclocking and choose to RMA it, why does that affect you? Is there something immoral about it? Is it wrong that they make products for enthusiasts?

Overclocking Should not damage components anyway as they will always become unstable before reaching the point where they would be daamaged.

Finding your maximum stable frequency and running a little under that limit will be fine for 24/7 use mainly for gaming.

My E8400 is running at 4.05 Ghz, my ram at 900 Mhz 4-4-3-5 (it doesnt OC well with 4 sticks installed).

My PC is switched on for 6-14 hours a day.

I'll let you know when it fails if i decide to keep its components for another 10 years

If there's any RAM that's going to die quickly through any over-volting it'll be the Ballistix. A little less with DDR2 than with their DDR1 1gb sticks, but they're still falling over for fun when you pump more through them.

I hardly doubt that when I know so many people that are able to run them at 1200 Mhz 24/7.

If they are Super PI, Orthos, and Memtest stable, they will not die. Really, they wont.

G. Skills HZ series is based on the exact same Micron D9 chips and overclock just as well. As in the thread I previously posted, G skill support themselves say that overclocking the ram is fine.

Why to you decide its wrong when even the actual company making it says overclocking is fine? It even says on my box that my ram can be overclocked.

[this_is_gav]

Less crazy please?

Enthusiast stuff is fine. There's a market, might as well exploit it. What there isn't really a market for is making a product that you know will do identically as you see any other one do. It can't exist. If you don't agree with that, then refer to Lucio's post on page 2.

I overclock beyond spec too (don't go for maximum OC as I just don't see the point in getting a 5% rise - I'll spend more time getting there than I'll save - so I just get to a decent level and clock back a touch), but we're not enthusiast level here - this is just 2gb of PC6400 - unless he's just so happened to grab some of the best D9's going, it's fairly middle of the road, and as has already been posted, D9s can be notoriously fickle and volatile when it comes volts. You expect a good result off of them, but can you really complain when you pump more volts than is specced through them and they appear to die?

This isn't about whether than can be clocked or not, it's about whether or not you how valid a RMA would be if you pump through more volts than something is specced for.

I know GeiL offer to replace some of their premium sticks if they don't overclock too well, but they won't accept them if they know they've been overvolted. You can resell RAM that's returned working fine within spec, but you can't resell RAM that's had above-spec volts through it, as it does shorten the life. You certainly can't resell RAM that's been killed through over-volting, which is what this entire discussion is about.

[switchmode]

RMAing stuff you broke is wrong but I can't help feeling that with high spec RAM they must allow for this to happen and price their sticks accordingly. Also some stuff dies real quick when you run it out of spec (I'm thinking of an 486 DX120 AMD I killed one of them with a small overclock) that was a few years ago now.

[Bhavv]

I resold my overvolted ram 3 times on ebay and got possitive feedback eachtime :embarrased:

My G. skill DDR1 stuff sold for £75, I listed in the item description all of its overclocking and overvolting results.

Crucial Ballistix based on Micron D9 is enthusiast ram. In fact its the most popular enthusiast ram on the market. If your going to overclock, its the best stuff to get, except I decided to get cheap stuff which was actually very good with just one pair installed (1150 Mhz @ 2.4v 5-5-5-15).

Ballistix dont come with Micron D9's anymore though, hence why their price has dropped, the only ram that still has it is G. Skill's HZ which sell at £70-80 for 800 mhz, or £140 for 1000 mhz.

If your going to pay that much and not overclock them, then what is the point in buying them over cheaper promos ram which has better stock timings?

G. Skill HZ (Micron D9) - £70, 800 Mhz, 4-4-4-12
G. Skill HK (Promos) - £40, 800 Mhz, 4-4-3-5
G. Skill PK - £35, 800 Mhz, 4-4-4-12

Of course only overclockers are going to pick the Micron based HZ series here. If your not going to overclock, you would buy the cheaper sets. But I guess thats how G. Skill afford to RMA ram thats failed by overclocking, they charge extra for it in the first place.

Its basically like saying why pay twice as much for Micron D9 if i'm not allowed to overclock it?

RMAing stuff you broke is wrong but I can't help feeling that with high spec RAM they must allow for this to happen and price their sticks accordingly.

Exactly, look at the G. skill ram price comparisons. You pay more to get the better clocking ram, hence they service it if it fails.

Crucial Ballistix was priced about the same as G. Skill HZ untill they started using different chips, then it went cheaper.

[GSte]

overclocking is the norm

No it's not, only amongst entusiasts.

And to all the voltage nubs, I've had a AMD 4400+ running at 1.6v, and G. skill memory rated for 2.6v DDR 400 running at 500 Mhz and 2.75v for 2+ years.

G. Skill and Geil will both happily RMA ram damaged through overclocking. They are more then well aware that the majority of their customers buy their ram to overclock, and they cater to these enthusiasts.

Morale of the story, if you want to overclock your ram, buy G. Skill or Geil ^^

There is absolutely no way they would RMA RAM damaged by overvolting if they could prove you had done it. Think about it. Geil DDR2 doesn't overclock anywhere near as high as other brands. Their cas3 stuff is okay, but Crucial Ballistix wipes the floor with it.

Oh, and theres some people here that can put over 2.7v through their ram just fine:

DDR2-Club 800MHZ - XtremeSystems Forums



They wont activate my account on Xtreme Systems, no idea why

They put 2.7v through it while they overclcok it then reduce it again, that's not 24/7 voltage. And they kill lots of sets. Read the boards.

Overclocking Should not damage components anyway as they will always become unstable before reaching the point where they would be daamaged.

Absolute poppycock. Do you know what voltage migration is?

[Bhavv]

Overclocking is the norm actually. Just about every motherboard nowadays allows it for a reason.

There is absolutely no way they would RMA RAM damaged by overvolting if they could prove you had done it.

I told Geil I was rying to overclock my ram exactly as a review article mentioned including voltage increases. They still offered to RMA it. If they are going to RMA fully functioning ram, why wouldnt they RMA damaged ram?

Guess what? They charge you 2-3 times the amount for overclockable ram with the same stocke specs as basic cheap ram as I already pointed out. People that buy this stuff do so to overclock and overvolt it. If it gets damaged, they RMA it. Guess what that does? The customer returns to Geil or G. Skill to buy their next lot of ram. And the next. And then the next.

[Bhavv]

Geil DDR2 doesn't overclock anywhere near as high as other brands. Their cas3 stuff is okay, but Crucial Ballistix.

Do you know anything yourself?

Crucial ballistix is no longer based on Micron D9 and doesnt overclock anymore. My cheapo Promos chips beat whatever Crucial are using now.

And this suff by Geil isnt enthusiast ram made to be overclocked?

TechConnect Magazine - Geil announces Black Dragon Evo One DDR2 memory series

They charge a premium price for their enthusiast line of products and RMA it if they fail, even if it was due to overclocking and overvolting.

Some people that have something against this really have a problem.

And anyway, most people that overclock thier ram are clever enough to know not to take it out of the box and set it to 2.7v , 1400 Mhz right away. They are capable of using their brains, I doubt anyone intentionally fries their ram by overvolting it excessively.

Absolute poppycock. Do you know what voltage migration is?

Been overclocking for 3 years, not one component damaged, and it looks set to stay that way. As long as your temperatures are fine, your components wont fry.

Ok, this thread here explains overvoling perfectly:

How Overvolting Works, The Dangers of Overvolting, and "Safe" Overvolting Technique - Overclockers Forums

When we overvolt, we rely on the integrity of our hardware. We assume that it is of high quality, without manufacturing defects, and that it is capable of withstanding a large overvolt without sustaining damage. Most of the time, this is the case. There are always exceptions. It is speculated that hardware which is damaged through overvolting, already contained small defects or weaknesses that were only made apparent, or made worse, when the hardware becomes strained through overclocking, and overvolting. There is no accurate way to tell if your specific piece of hardware has such flaws. Sometimes, we get unlucky. For the most part though, ‘healthy’ hardware is capable of running smoothly for years and years with a considerable overvolt in place.

Very well put

[this_is_gav]

But not actually relevant to the discussion. :\

GeiL won't (normally anyway) accept user-damaged RAM as it can't be resold. If one won't overclock it's of minimal cost to them to swap it out for another set and just resell it as b-grade. It's how so many sets appeared on OcUK's old b-grade section for instance. Most of these companies also have a Ebay shop solely for the purpose of selling fully-functional 2nd hand stock. They lose next to nothing.

If that stick has been damaged though, they lose the value.

GeiL in there terms and conditions even claim themselves that they refuse to accept modules "damaged due to improper operation by user" and won't accept modules "that Geil tested to be functional and undamaged". They might well do so on a per-user basis, but it's clearly stated in black and white that it's not accepted practice. G.Skill cover themselves much loosely by stating "misuse, neglect or improper assembly" are exempt to RMAs. Again they may well allow some through, but they've covered themselves right there. It's certainly not encouraged and stated to be accepted.

[Bhavv]

Oh well, it must be on a per-user basis of course, but you can generally expect fantastic service if your ram dies from any company. You just dont say 'May ram died when overvolted'. You just say 'My ram died' and get a new one

Xtrme systems do damage modules yes, but your average overclocker at home like me just wants a decent stable OC that will last for years, nothing too much like 2.7v.

A few extra volts shouldnt damage eqiuipment for years unless it already had a fault. I firmly believe that. I have only gone up to 1.4v max on my CPU and 2.4v on my ram, those voltages do not cause damage to perfectly healthy equipment.

24/7 I run 1.3v CPU, 2.1v Ram (rated voltage on the sticker), both overclocked. Putting more volts on my ram with 4 sticks installed does absolutely nothing compared to two sticks.

[this_is_gav]

A few extra volts shouldnt damage eqiuipment for years unless it already had a fault. I firmly believe that.

It's not faults we're discussing though, it's speed-binning. Of course modules could be faulty, but that's not what we (those who thought he may have killed it) were generally thinking here.

[GSte]

Do you know anything yourself?

Crucial ballistix is no longer based on Micron D9 and doesnt overclock anymore. My cheapo Promos chips beat whatever Crucial are using now.

And this suff by Geil isnt enthusiast ram made to be overclocked?


Been overclocking for 3 years, not one component damaged, and it looks set to stay that way. As long as your temperatures are fine, your components wont fry.

Ok, this thread here explains overvoling perfectly:

How Overvolting Works, The Dangers of Overvolting, and "Safe" Overvolting Technique - Overclockers Forums



Very well put

All ballistix is Micron D9. Crucial is owned by Micron which is why their ballistix has such highly binned chips.

Perhaps Geil advertise that RAM as overclocking RAM, but that doesn't mean it can do it..... I don't know which specific ICs the EvoOne uses, but the standard black dragon uses Elpida, which are not great.

I wasn't contesting the fact that overclocking can be done safely, I was contesting your ludicrous claim that overclocking does not damage components.

[GSte]

Overclocking is the norm actually. Just about every motherboard nowadays allows it for a reason.

Overclocking RAM is not the norm, which is what he was discussing. It gives little performance gain which is why most people don't bother.