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Thread: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

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    Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    I was just thinking about this, All the motherboards and graphics cards I've seen with failed capacitors have been run on cheap PSU's.

    Does anyone else think there is a link between them ?

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    Re: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    You shouldn't run on a cheap psu its the number one component. think of it as the foundation for a house with poor foundation the house falls. The psu has the potential to surge and destroy every component in your pc.

    Its the amps that matter not the watts and its the amps that cheap psu's normally lack. Also because a psu is expensive doesn't mean its better. The q6600 is more expensive then the Q9450 in some stores however the Q9450 is a lot better.

    Here is a list of psu brands are good (at the bottom is the avoid list)
    http://www.tech-forums.net/pc/f76/re...-guide-137927/

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    Re: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    Personally, I always use good PSU's. I have an Enermax in one machine and an Antec in the other.

    But, In the machines I've looked at for other people the ones with failed caps always have cheap PSU's.

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    Re: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    Cheap PSU = failed just about everything normally. Voltage ripple, power surges...you don't have to have an electronics degree to work out that's bad for your components, and I guess capacitors are probably one of the most vulnerable (and noticable if they do die).

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    Re: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    The blown caps (at least the majority of them) are because of hardware manufacturers being cheapskates and falling foul of the largest case of industrial espionage in electronic hardware history.
    Of course cheap or generally crap PSU's certainly won't help matters regardless of the quality of caps
    Moo.

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    Re: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    The blown caps (at least the majority of them) are because of hardware manufacturers being cheapskates and falling foul of the largest case of industrial espionage in electronic hardware history.
    Is it the one about the electrolyte formulae being copied from the Japanese??

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    Re: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Is it the one about the electrolyte formulae being copied from the Japanese??

    I treat that story with the same regard as the story about a 54 bus being found on the moon.

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    Re: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    I'd be a little hesitant in how much of a link to put between cheapness and low quality.

    Put it this way, while a very cheap PSU is very likely cutting down on quality, it is NOT necessarily the case that a very expensive one is top quality.

    I have no doubt that quality components, quality manufacture and quality design elevates a unit out of the very cheap region. But paying top dollar might well mean you're paying for case aesthetics, glowing fans, pretty and/or fluorescent cables, fancy case design and/or graphics and a "stylish" brand name. I certainly am personally convinced that there are a fair few models for whom the price is more about brand than component cost.

    Yes, you ideally want a good design, and quality components, because it should ensure that voltages are stable, that there's no excessive fluctuations, that it performs well under heavy load, that capacitors are high quality and transformers don't break down, and so on.

    It can even be as simple as getting a fan with good quality bearings rather than a cheap sleeve bearing that'll wear out, or dry out and hence slow down, resulting in overheating.

    It's also the case that a good design wil handle exception conditions better, that it'll start up cleanly, and so on.

    So yes, I always use a good quality unit. The trick is in finding one where the price is justified by quality rather than clever marketing, fancy graphics and having managed to become the in-vogue brand to have. And if anyone solves that one, let me know will ya .... 'cos I going to need a couple of good units in the near future.

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    Re: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    I agree entirely that price is not always a true reflection of performance.

    Big brand advertising has to be paid for somehow and it is the consumer that pays for it.

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    Re: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    I treat that story with the same regard as the story about a 54 bus being found on the moon.
    There is an expensive Hasselblad camera to be found on the moon, apparently. Does that count?

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    Re: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    I'd be a little hesitant in how much of a link to put between cheapness and low quality.

    Put it this way, while a very cheap PSU is very likely cutting down on quality, it is NOT necessarily the case that a very expensive one is top quality.

    I have no doubt that quality components, quality manufacture and quality design elevates a unit out of the very cheap region. But paying top dollar might well mean you're paying for case aesthetics, glowing fans, pretty and/or fluorescent cables, fancy case design and/or graphics and a "stylish" brand name. I certainly am personally convinced that there are a fair few models for whom the price is more about brand than component cost.

    Yes, you ideally want a good design, and quality components, because it should ensure that voltages are stable, that there's no excessive fluctuations, that it performs well under heavy load, that capacitors are high quality and transformers don't break down, and so on.

    It can even be as simple as getting a fan with good quality bearings rather than a cheap sleeve bearing that'll wear out, or dry out and hence slow down, resulting in overheating.

    It's also the case that a good design wil handle exception conditions better, that it'll start up cleanly, and so on.

    So yes, I always use a good quality unit. The trick is in finding one where the price is justified by quality rather than clever marketing, fancy graphics and having managed to become the in-vogue brand to have. And if anyone solves that one, let me know will ya .... 'cos I going to need a couple of good units in the near future.
    I second this assessment. These days it seems that PSU have grossly inflated prices with a glossy enclosure for it to sit in, with starting prices of established/respectable brands from at least £55 for a 400W model. While the quality of electrical output and power regulation may indeed have improved over the last 6 years or so, that should be offset by economies of scale since more PSU manufacturers are using higher quality parts on a whole, or so they'd have you believe.

    Personally, I'm more than happy enough with traditional 2x80mm fan cooling w/o flashy lights, and non-modular PSUs, but they're becoming harder to come by, and PSU manufacturers seem to think it's ok to charge about the same money for those as 120mm cooled, christmas tree PSUs, with funky removable cables.
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    Re: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    Some more stuff about capacitors:

    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=425

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    Re: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    I'd be a little hesitant in how much of a link to put between cheapness and low quality.

    Put it this way, while a very cheap PSU is very likely cutting down on quality, it is NOT necessarily the case that a very expensive one is top quality.

    I have no doubt that quality components, quality manufacture and quality design elevates a unit out of the very cheap region. But paying top dollar might well mean you're paying for case aesthetics, glowing fans, pretty and/or fluorescent cables, fancy case design and/or graphics and a "stylish" brand name. I certainly am personally convinced that there are a fair few models for whom the price is more about brand than component cost.

    Yes, you ideally want a good design, and quality components, because it should ensure that voltages are stable, that there's no excessive fluctuations, that it performs well under heavy load, that capacitors are high quality and transformers don't break down, and so on.

    It can even be as simple as getting a fan with good quality bearings rather than a cheap sleeve bearing that'll wear out, or dry out and hence slow down, resulting in overheating.

    It's also the case that a good design wil handle exception conditions better, that it'll start up cleanly, and so on.

    So yes, I always use a good quality unit. The trick is in finding one where the price is justified by quality rather than clever marketing, fancy graphics and having managed to become the in-vogue brand to have. And if anyone solves that one, let me know will ya .... 'cos I going to need a couple of good units in the near future.
    Totally agree again . Everyone seems to recommend corsair and all the expensive ones which do deserve it but they come at a huge price normally, i went for an Xclio 700w PSU only because its made by CWT (who make the corsair/antec etc psu's) and reviews said its extremely stable. I havent looked back on it since, £55 for a top notch power supply thats just as good as the competition but alot cheaper and the amps are good @ 72A i think or something.

    Expensive items are over rated IMO, get the best value for money but it has to be in the middle.
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    Re: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    The advantage of buying a 'brand name' psu is that they have a reputation to protect - if they have spent money marketing, they don't want to blow that reputation nby shipping shoddy goods.

    many of the brand name PSUs are built by a few OEM mfrs (I think FSP are one of them) but they will build to the spec provided by the source client - so if there is a price limit, then something has to give - component quality, and/or QC and QA.

    The component cost of a PSU is a relatively small amount - the rest is in design, setting up production lines, and significantly, testing and quality assurance. A cheap PSU may be batch sample tested, sy one in every 1000, and the components going into it may also be batch tested. A more expensive device may have more frequent component batch testing, and more comprehensive finished unit testing - pushing up the price. Packaging and distribution also adds to the final cost.

    The problem (as saracen said) is how to assess all that. For a comp assembler, he can buy a few, take them apart and assess the build quality. If you are someone like Dell, you can dictate how the PSU will be built.

    For the home user you have to rely on the tech bulletin boards, word of moyuth and, lets face it, brand reputation. Common sense also plays a part - a PSU advertised as capable of delivering 750 watta at £15 is likely to be poor - so if you were a seller offering a 750W psu that is only worth £15, you would chatfge more to give the illsion of quality - and there lies the catch - so its back to word of mouth, reputation and reviews.
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    Re: Cheap PSU = Failed caps?

    What is the best low cost PSU ? A friend has an old AMD XP2000+ machine and the supply has just failed. They won't want to spend loads. The machine is nothing fancy.

    Athlon XP2000+ socket A
    asus Mobo with on board graphics
    one hard drive
    2x CD/RW

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