Help/advice on new HTPC/Media Server build please?

[arthurleung]

My personal opinion is no more than 5-6 drives per RAID5, 10 drives in RAID5 is plain stupid. I always used 4 drives for RAID5 and never lose data on any of them. Backup is another issue. I never assumed RAID as backup. Many people here automatically assume RAID = Backup unless clarify in every single post

The main advantage of RAID is you can do automatic consistency check and correction, as well as resilience to single disk failure without messing with the backup drive. In case it really fails you only need to replace the disk and the process of recovery is fully transparent, unlike recovering a backup. And not to mention you don't need to have 10+ drive letters which can be terrible to manage.

Hardware RAID Controller shouldn't corrupt (I heard Areca cards tends to do this, but none of the 3Ware/Dell/LSI/Adaptec cards I've used ever corrupted). If it does, replace the controller and you can recover from there, as long as you're not using very complex RAID arrangement it is usually quite easy to recover. There is no distinct difference between software and hardware RAID. The data structure is practically the same.

[Funkstar]

Your N array has a much higher chance of failing than N single drives, as your data is spread over N drives.

For example for a 10 disk RAID 5 array, if you loose 1 disk, you will worry lots, if the 2nd disk goes you are totally stuffed.

Rubbish.

I've lost drives that were in RAID-5, if they had been single drives I would have lost data, but because of redundancy, I didn't loose anything. I loose one drive, and I'm glad I have some redundancy. I have never lost data because of RAID, but then I've never used RAID-1 or RAID-0.

I am perfectly aware that RAID is not a substiture for backups, but with a 5x1TB RAID-5 and a 5x500GB RAID-5 I couldn't have an affordable backup solution. I would basically need another bunch of hard drives and keep an offsite backup. I am happy to live with that compromise, the vast majority of that data I coule re-create anyway, would just take me a while (music and videos). Important data is backed up seperately.

10 disk RAID-5 is asking for trouble in my opinion too. I wouldn't be cofortable with anything more than 8 drives, RAID-6 would be better for anything more than that I think.


Oh, and this is all in a domestic setup. If I was building a file server for a corporate environment, there would be a lot more fault tollerence, and a much tighter backup regime. But really my data isn't as valuable as that, and it doesn't change nearly as often. Couple to that, I don't loose monet if my files are offline for a period of time. So if i was to loose a drive from a RAID-5 array, I can quite happily shut it down until I get a replacement. Not idea, as there is a risk of a fecond drive failing while the replacement is being integrated, but the chances are very very low and one I'm happy living with.

[zephod]

Having drives in any raid does decrease the MTBF due to simple probability.

P(failure)= P(fail.disk.1) + P(fail.disk.2) + ....

Therefore by having more disks involved you increase the chance there will be a failure over one single disk. However, the advantage of it is that if there is any single failure you can replace disks without losing any data. As such a 1TB raid 1 array is twice as likely to suffer a failure as a single 1TB disk. However, it is unlikely they will both fail at once so you can replace the drive that does fail without losing data.

At any rate, what I wanted to say is that I think it still makes most sense for you to build two machines from a value perspective as well as a futureproofing one.

Realistically you need relatively minimal specs to act as your media server and it can be built for around £100 (not including case and disks). It would cost a lot less to run 24/7 than something capable of playing the media in the quality you desire.

You could then also spend a small amount of money buying a computer that meets your exact needs for playing the media. You can build a win7 1080p capable machine for <&#163;300 including a nice small case and silent running. You couldn't really do this by combining the two as you need space for HDDs and to keep them cool.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

At any rate, what I wanted to say is that I think it still makes most sense for you to build two machines from a value perspective as well as a futureproofing one.

Realistically you need relatively minimal specs to act as your media server and it can be built for around &#163;100 (not including case and disks). It would cost a lot less to run 24/7 than something capable of playing the media in the quality you desire.

You could then also spend a small amount of money buying a computer that meets your exact needs for playing the media. You can build a win7 1080p capable machine for <&#163;300 including a nice small case and silent running. You couldn't really do this by combining the two as you need space for HDDs and to keep them cool.

I agree entirely and this seems the best way forward TBH. Having one computer would make it very large and very noisy too with so many discs.

[cheekster]

Care to list your recommended components and prices (links would be great!) for said seperate rigs please?

Thanks.

Cheekster.

[zephod]

Will have a go. Don't flame me for this anyone, doing it quickly.

Server:

AMD sempron LE-1250 2.2ghz AM2 - 45W TDP - ~£25
AM2 mobo with on-board VGA - ~£40
2gb DDR2 ~ £20
CD/DVD ~ £20
High efficiency low wattage PSU ~ £40 (eg Corsair CX 400W series)

Handful of molex to sata connectors ~ £10

Hardware Raid controller/expansion cards are expensive, your choice...
Case, also your choice, though you will want airflow for those drives, and there are few cases that will support 10 HDDs natively - though there are 5.25" bay converters.

HTPC - options:

nVidia ION (recommend the dual core) based system ~ £250


AMD X2 5050e (45W TDP) ~ £50
mATX 780G mobo with sideport 128M (makes a big difference) ~ £80
2GB DDR2 ~ £20
Blu-ray drive ~ £50
HTPC case - £20-£200
High efficiency low wattage PSU ~ £40 (eg Corsair CX 400W series, though the Seasonic S12-II is particularly quiet)


Intel E5200 ~ £50
mATX geforce 9300 IGP based mobo ~ £80
2GB DDR2 ~ £20
Blu-ray drive ~ £50
HTPC case - £20-£200
High efficiency low wattage PSU ~ £40 (eg Corsair CX 400W series, though the Seasonic S12-II is particularly quiet)

--- NB: Antec ship a wide range of cases with their EarthWatts range of 80plus PSUs - worth a look
Cheapest quiet HDD you can find - space shouldn't be important - or just use one of your 1.5TB you have lying around


Either of these bottom two systems will make nice HTPCs and game resonably effectively without using too much power. If it is for your room though and you have the cash, I say built a gaming rig. £500 will stretch a long way at the moment. Basically there are loads of ways you can do this, but the above is just a few ideas.

[Funkstar]

Hardware Raid controller/expansion cards are expensive, your choice...
Case, also your choice, though you will want airflow for those drives, and there are few cases that will support 10 HDDs natively - though there are 5.25" bay converters.

That they are. But it really is worth having a look into the Dell PERC cards floating about on eBay. There are some limitations, but they are great cards for the money.

I have two and arthurleung is a big fan of them as well (he has a couple so does a friend of his)


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dell-PERC-5-i-...3286.m63.l1177

Just make sure it comes with the battery backup and battery cable, as they don't work well without them.

For a lot of discussion on them, and some tips and bechmarks:
http://www.overclock.net/hard-drives...card-tips.html

There are some limits to the sytem they will work in, for instance they don't work in regular Intel systems very well. However, they do work in AMD 780G motherboards, I have one in each of the 16x PCIe slots in a Gigabyte 780G board (some boards don't like it when you put anything other than a graphics card in the first 16x slot, even though they shouldn't).

I picked up both my cards, SAS -> SATA cables are on the way and I spent just slightly over the cost of a basic 8port Highpoint card.... much better value for money if you ask me!

[llololloy]

I've got a perc aswell, must stress how picky they are.
Wouldn't work at first in an amd asus m2n32wspro, tested it in abit ip35 and lg95 (intel) with no luck, only got it working in the ws board by moving the system ram over by 2 slots.
Now working fine though. If it works in your board they're a great card.
Got mine from ebay for less than &#163;100 inc battery, cache and sas-sata cable.

[Funkstar]

I've got a perc aswell, must stress how picky they are.
Wouldn't work at first in an amd asus m2n32wspro, tested it in abit ip35 and lg95 (intel) with no luck, only got it working in the ws board by moving the system ram over by 2 slots.

YEah they are very picky with Intel systems, because of the SMbus the card uses. Normal Intel systems don't know what to do with the signals and just get confused. A real Poweredge has the BIOS to handle it. There doesn't appear to be problems with non-Intel chipsets. I've read that Nvidea chipsets are fine, and as I said, I installed two in my 780G board the other day.

[cheekster]

Thanks for taking the time to list some suggestions. Will do some searching on Scan for specs etc.

I guess the correct/most suitable case for the server will be far more important than for the HTPC bearing in mind the amount of HDD's it needs to hold and cooling options? Recommendations would be a great help. Starting to think 10 x 1.5TB (storage) plus a boot drive won't be enough! Perhaps another 4 x 1.5TB should tide me over for now though. So a case that can accomodate 15 or so 3.5" drives is what I'm after. If I have to purchase a few of those 5.25" bay converters then so be it.

Leaning towards these cases at the moment:

Akasa Infinity (server) http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=861220

Sharkoon Rebel 12 (server) http://www.scan.co.uk/product.aspx?ProductId=23156

Antec NSK2400 (HTPC) http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_1268.html

Funkstar

Thanks for the eBay link. How many drives can one of those Dell PERC cards handle i.e. how many will I need to support 10 or 14 drives? Where did you order your SAS > SATA cables from? Do I need one per drive?

Would you mind providing some links to 780G or equivalent motherboards that you'd recommend please that will happily work with these Dell cards?

Thanks.

Cheekster.

[cheekster]

Any more recommendations for which components I should opt for?

Cheekster.

[Funkstar]

Thanks for the eBay link. How many drives can one of those Dell PERC cards handle i.e. how many will I need to support 10 or 14 drives? Where did you order your SAS > SATA cables from? Do I need one per drive?

They support 8 drives each.
Cable wise, I got these: http://www.bestofferbuy.com/32pin-sa...e-p-15023.html
But these look they would do as well: http://www.bestofferbuy.com/sas-cont...e-p-16540.html

Would you mind providing some links to 780G or equivalent motherboards that you'd recommend please that will happily work with these Dell cards?

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Gigab...D-HDCP-VGA-ATX
Thats the one I bought, but have tested them in another, similar Gigabyte board. I just can't remember which one.

I'm sure others will work too, but I like Gigabyte boards.

[arthurleung]

Thanks for taking the time to list some suggestions. Will do some searching on Scan for specs etc.

I guess the correct/most suitable case for the server will be far more important than for the HTPC bearing in mind the amount of HDD's it needs to hold and cooling options? Recommendations would be a great help. Starting to think 10 x 1.5TB (storage) plus a boot drive won't be enough! Perhaps another 4 x 1.5TB should tide me over for now though. So a case that can accomodate 15 or so 3.5" drives is what I'm after. If I have to purchase a few of those 5.25" bay converters then so be it.

Leaning towards these cases at the moment:

Akasa Infinity (server) http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=861220

Sharkoon Rebel 12 (server) http://www.scan.co.uk/product.aspx?ProductId=23156

Antec NSK2400 (HTPC) http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_1268.html

Funkstar

Thanks for the eBay link. How many drives can one of those Dell PERC cards handle i.e. how many will I need to support 10 or 14 drives? Where did you order your SAS > SATA cables from? Do I need one per drive?

Would you mind providing some links to 780G or equivalent motherboards that you'd recommend please that will happily work with these Dell cards?

Thanks.

Cheekster.

I know for a fact that the PERC works with NF-780i (Intel) boards. XFX and the DFI board from personal experience can fit up to 3 cards.