I chuffing love my Liteon CDRW...

[directhex]

Do you know of anywhere at all that allows me to pay for music Hex? At a cheaper rate than buying a CD...?

Good question. depends what you're into, how much a particular cd is gonna cost you, and on your moral code.

The music industry has decided that with £0.00 production costs on online music, they're gonna charge MORE than a CD. That's right, MORE. they want to prevent you from buying a single track, instead forcing you to pay for extra rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishty tracks you don't want (much like buying a CD single), they want single tracks and albums to cost MORE than with a CD, because it's considerably cheaper for THEM, and people buying online would otherwise miss out on all the really great bits of CD buying that they're unfortunately missing out on, like high prices and getting rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish tracks you don't want.

Sometimes you can work on the cheap for some rarer stuff, however next you need to ask yourself if you're happy with DRM'd music in a dubious quality - most online stores use 128K WMA9,and the iTunes Music Store uses 128k AAC, in a form where the record industry controls what you can do with that track - such as only plaing back on your PC, preventing you from recording an audio cd with that track, etc. stores using non-DRM music are rare, since the record industry fears not having absolute control. DRM-flavoured stores include www.ministryofsound.com/downloads , http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music/musicclub/ , http://www.virgin.com/downloads , www.mycokemusic.com , a few others. they're all outlets for the same wholesaler, www.od2.com, so don't expect a lot of variation.

A couple of exceptions exist. www.bleep.com is Warp Records' online store, selling their library in clean and pure MP3 form, created using the highest settings that one of the most highly regarded version of LAME MP3 encoder will do, LAME 3.90.3 --alt-preset standard. Warp aren't the biggest of labels, but if you're into eccentric weirdness like Aphex Twin then they're a good bet. Other than that, www.wippit.com offer a mix of WMA and unprotected MP3 tracks - usually the MP3s are from smaller unknown acts whereas the big names get WMA protection.

[Howard]

Ah right, thanks.

So I take it places like www.allofmp3.com and http://club.mp3search.ru aren't quite as above board then?

[directhex]

if what they're selling is legal for distribution in russia (which may or may not be true), it certainly isn't for distribution outside russia - mush as using the iTunes Music Store is legal only for US dwellers, etc.

it's hard to ascertain the legality of the russian services, tho i think it's no accident that russia is the second biggest pirate of music.

[swek]

swek, you ain't gonna make a living from £0.20 a disc minus recording costs.

artists make their money from live gigs, they never see more than a couple f pounds from CD sales after the record industry are finished with them.

I plan to be part of the "record industry" not being the artist.
Perhaps i should become an event manager instead, maybe theres bigger money in that in the future.... i mean, if they cant make any money off their cd sales, then live gigs must be the way to go, right?

[swek]

Good question. depends what you're into, how much a particular cd is gonna cost you, and on your moral code.

The music industry has decided that with £0.00 production costs on online music, they're gonna charge MORE than a CD. That's right, MORE. they want to prevent you from buying a single track, instead forcing you to pay for extra rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishty tracks you don't want (much like buying a CD single), they want single tracks and albums to cost MORE than with a CD, because it's considerably cheaper for THEM, and people buying online would otherwise miss out on all the really great bits of CD buying that they're unfortunately missing out on, like high prices and getting rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish tracks you don't want.

Sometimes you can work on the cheap for some rarer stuff, however next you need to ask yourself if you're happy with DRM'd music in a dubious quality - most online stores use 128K WMA9,and the iTunes Music Store uses 128k AAC, in a form where the record industry controls what you can do with that track - such as only plaing back on your PC, preventing you from recording an audio cd with that track, etc. stores using non-DRM music are rare, since the record industry fears not having absolute control. DRM-flavoured stores include www.ministryofsound.com/downloads , http://www.tiscali.co.uk/music/musicclub/ , http://www.virgin.com/downloads , www.mycokemusic.com , a few others. they're all outlets for the same wholesaler, www.od2.com, so don't expect a lot of variation.

A couple of exceptions exist. www.bleep.com is Warp Records' online store, selling their library in clean and pure MP3 form, created using the highest settings that one of the most highly regarded version of LAME MP3 encoder will do, LAME 3.90.3 --alt-preset standard. Warp aren't the biggest of labels, but if you're into eccentric weirdness like Aphex Twin then they're a good bet. Other than that, www.wippit.com offer a mix of WMA and unprotected MP3 tracks - usually the MP3s are from smaller unknown acts whereas the big names get WMA protection.

If youre buying the CD of a good band, arent usually most of the tracks pretty good? I mean, of course, some might not be hits, but if only one or two tracks on a cd are good, then you should be waking up and smelling the coffee: what are the odds that the actual artists themselves wrote those two tracks when the other 12 or 16 are all the worst piece of noise you have ever heard and just that one or two are great?

Take a look at Britney and the Backstreet boys, now I know its not what us "normals" consider good music. But their hits: written by me fellow swedish citizen Max Martin. So there you go, maybe they should start making albums by song writer, not artist, in some cases...

This might all be confusing, im a little confused myself, see what you can make of it

[unrealrocks]

DirectHex ... can I just stop you on your little mad voyage for a second

First off one of your posts make out that CDRs will last longer than real CDs, that is total BS. CDRs are affected by light, there not as dense as printed CDs and so are more vunerable to cracks/chips & scratches.

Next off, playing a Live gig does give bands quite a lump sum for doing just one show although if you sell CDs you do get more profit from that.

I've just noticed some people are posting sites to download MP3s, surely this is breaking forum rules as it is most probably illegal or in that grey area.

[john-boi]

Downloading Music free is giving the Record Companies a real kick in the pants.

They realise that they could be taken out of the loop with the artist being not only being able to produce there own music but also able to distribute it over the net.

I some ways this is a good thing as Record Companies have been ripping us off particuarly in the UK with the price of CD's.

It also means that popstars will no longer be able to get super rich but that we will have access to loads more independantly produced music and not be forcefed the manufactured pop that record companies tend to spew out.

Obviously record companies ain't going to go without a fight and will be kicking and screaming for a good few years yet.

I personally like the access to music the internet has allowed but have a worry about it being totally free.The artist surely needs some renumeration for their creativity.

For me a charged service allowing me to pick and choose tracks rather than a whole album with a higher proportion going to the artist rather than to record company profits is the way forward.

We are heading that way but I still think many of the legit online retailers are over charging for the music 99p per track as mooted by some still means I am being charged nearly £10 for an album when I can get the legit CD with all the packaging etc from some outlets for the same price is not good value.

What does anyone else think.

[directhex]

DirectHex ... can I just stop you on your little mad voyage for a second

First off one of your posts make out that CDRs will last longer than real CDs, that is total BS. CDRs are affected by light, there not as dense as printed CDs and so are more vunerable to cracks/chips & scratches.

Next off, playing a Live gig does give bands quite a lump sum for doing just one show although if you sell CDs you do get more profit from that.

I've just noticed some people are posting sites to download MP3s, surely this is breaking forum rules as it is most probably illegal or in that grey area.

CDDA features error correction. "CDs" produced after 2002 from IFPI members do not, because corrupting the error correction information is one of the best ways to screw up undesirable players which rely on it, such as PCs, Discmen & car stereos. If you burn your own CD as a real CDDA disc, it will offer better resiliance to scratches, thorough virtue of the error correction.

And profit to a band from CD sales is approx £0.30 minus recording expenses, per unit. A band of 4 people, assuming a zero cost for recording, and assuming a lavish £12000 per annum income (burger flipper money), needs to shift 160,000 units at IFPI rates. Gigs & merchandising account for a far larger percentage of artist revenues, with up to 50% of a gig ticket going to the band.

As for the Russian music stores, it's certainly a grey area, which is why we're keeping a close eye on the developments in this thread.

[directhex]

If youre buying the CD of a good band, arent usually most of the tracks pretty good? I mean, of course, some might not be hits, but if only one or two tracks on a cd are good, then you should be waking up and smelling the coffee: what are the odds that the actual artists themselves wrote those two tracks when the other 12 or 16 are all the worst piece of noise you have ever heard and just that one or two are great?

Take a look at Britney and the Backstreet boys, now I know its not what us "normals" consider good music. But their hits: written by me fellow swedish citizen Max Martin. So there you go, maybe they should start making albums by song writer, not artist, in some cases...

This might all be confusing, im a little confused myself, see what you can make of it

The general public don't realise that there are only two or three people writing the songs for every chart-topping act.

But the general public are the ones who buy singles for single tracks - it's the less "pop" acts usually favoured by computer geeks that see heavy Album rather than Single sales.

[directhex]

Downloading Music free is giving the Record Companies a real kick in the pants.

They realise that they could be taken out of the loop with the artist being not only being able to produce there own music but also able to distribute it over the net.

I some ways this is a good thing as Record Companies have been ripping us off particuarly in the UK with the price of CD's.

It also means that popstars will no longer be able to get super rich but that we will have access to loads more independantly produced music and not be forcefed the manufactured pop that record companies tend to spew out.

Obviously record companies ain't going to go without a fight and will be kicking and screaming for a good few years yet.

I personally like the access to music the internet has allowed but have a worry about it being totally free.The artist surely needs some renumeration for their creativity.

For me a charged service allowing me to pick and choose tracks rather than a whole album with a higher proportion going to the artist rather than to record company profits is the way forward.

We are heading that way but I still think many of the legit online retailers are over charging for the music 99p per track as mooted by some still means I am being charged nearly £10 for an album when I can get the legit CD with all the packaging etc from some outlets for the same price is not good value.

What does anyone else think.

Part of the IFPI strategy is to make legal downloads more expensive than their read-rptected CDs. Another part is to reduce the choice offered & eliminate non-mainstream acts. These two combined are the big steps to eliminating music piracy.

http://www.azcentral.com/business/ar...ding07-ON.html

mainstream news linkage \o/

[Lexeus]

I have to say this thread has taken a bit of a turn, from burners to online music prices

Anyway, very interesting comments hex , and thanks for the link

[Bungle]

Im looking at getting a CD-RW/DVD drive at some point in the near future for £35ish. i couldnt see any lite-ons for that money. I would like one as i have heard good things about them..

Any of you guys know where i could get one?
ta
Will

i love my cd writer /dvd player from liteon. very reliable and reads scratced cds that my normal stereo wont. i chuffing great