Update on the MSI half multiplier story

[Thorsson]

No, its not non-sence. If that program that he downloaded, and that button he pressed gave them unauthorised access to a system, would he be a hacker ?

Yes, in one sense on the word. And no in another. That's why the example made no sense.

As for overclocker, I can find a dictionary definition even though it's not very flattering...

Overclock - To operate a CPU or other digital logic device at a rate higher than it was designed for, under the assumption that the manufacturer put some slop into the specification to account for manufacturing tolerances. People who make a hobby of this are sometimes called "overclockers"; they are thrilled that they can run their 450MHz CPU at 500MHz, even though they can only tell the difference by running a benchmark program.

[Agent]

Yes, in one sense on the word. And no in another. That's why the example made no sense..

Which is the exact same way myself (and maybe storm) is seeing it towards your version of 'overclocker'. If you can say that about somthing ive said, then why cant you accept it when somone feels the same towards a somthing you've said, even if you cant see it from the other persons point of view ? . At the end of the day, my point of view is no more correct than yours, and visa versa
While pushing the FSB up by one, runs it out of spec, and therfore would be, technicaly 'overclocking', anyone who claimed that this alone makes them a overclocker are just deluding themselfs.

[Thorsson]

Hacker has two definitions. This is confusing, but it's clear that if you use one meaning - to gain unauthorised access - then it doesn't matter how you do it, so your example would mean he was a hacker. If you use the other definition - "computer expert" - then your example clearly doesn't fit this. Still, by one definition he is a hacker, so this would say that even if you also have two definitions for overclocker - yours as well as the accepted one, then one would still fit the person who merely raised the FSB by one.

The whole point of language is to communicate and we do that by having the same meanings for the same words. If we were to all have different definitions for words then there would be no communication. I mean, what if I decided that "overclocker" meant "sad geek overcompensating for inability to get laid"? By your reasoning that would be just as valid a definition as any other.

I get the feeling from your poor arguments and spelling that you are probably quite young, so I don't suppose I'm going to get through to you, so I'll sign off and say goodnight. Hopefully age will cure you...

[Nick]

Ok, from someone who regards himself as a technophile but still owns and builds his own PCs, I'd just like to point out that arguing over the definition of what an overclocker is is fine.

Personal attacks based on nothing more than a (mistaken in this case) presumption are not.

This was a good debate, although it was wandering a tad of topic, until that last post.

Consider yourselves warned.

Deckard, your friendly moderator up to a point.

[StormPC]

While I currently still hold the world's record for 3DMark2001 on a motherboard made by ASUS regardless of platform (no other ASUS is above my A8V, #28 overall), I don't consider myself an overclocker. I also run my Winny 3200+ at a 500MHz OC (2500MHz) 24/7 and my 400MHz Corsair at 480MHz+. I guess some would consider me an overclocker, but to me an overclocker is a person who pushes his system to the limit of the hardware, something that is impossible to do without a vmod. Vmods are useless without a way to measure the voltage. That's why I thought the reviewer's comments were in error.

This just illustrates that the way we see ourselves is rarely how others see us.

[Iain]

Let me just reiterate what Deckard has said, this forum is happy to discuss most things but personal attacks will not be condoned. Thorsson, if you're as old as you indicate I suggest you act your age or your stay at HEXUS will be short.

That goes for anyone else. Now back on topic please.

[Thorsson]

Sorry for my previous post. I realise I went over the top.

Back to the etymology of the word hacker as used in computing.

Originally the word hacker was used to indicate someone who had in depth, low level knowledge of computing and computers. When some people (and let's face it it had to be hackers in the original sense to do this) began using their knowledge to break into others systems the media took up the word, but used it in a new and narrow context to mean someone who hacked in to anothers computer. This meaning has almost completely replaced the old in everyday use.

Now I presumed that anyone who is not very young would know this, and therefore realise why hacker today means, for the overwhelming majority of people, someone who breaks into anothers computer.

Similarly the vast majority of people use overclocker to mean someone who overclocks, which seems a pretty sensible definition to me.

Of course there are always groups of people who use words in different ways, but they really ought not to cavil when another person uses the word in its generally accepted sense.

[Zak33]

Thorsson: in the Equine world a Hacker is someone who takes their horse out on non predfined routes for pleasure.

It's called Hacking. Period.

And so the English Language DOES have different meanings for the same word

[Howard]

Re the word "Overclocker". I reckon it applies to anyone who has overclocked something, whether it's by BIOS adjustments or by physically modifying components. If they know what they're doing and understand how it works then I don't see why they can't be classed as one?

[Thorsson]

Thorsson: in the Equine world a Hacker is someone who takes their horse out on non predfined routes for pleasure.

It's called Hacking. Period.

And so the English Language DOES have different meanings for the same word

I not only know that, if you read carefully you'll see that I pretty well said that before (if you know what inter alia means). This is a red herring however. In fact the whole hacker thing is a red herring, introduced by Agent to shore up his shaky argument that someone can't be an overclocker unless they perform arcane rituals over their PC's innards. Or something like that.

[Zak33]

If you get enough people around the world to agree with your definition, then it will change, just like the spelling of tweak would become tweek, but for now words mean what they mean, rather than what you wish them to mean.

Hacker : to hack your horse (my use)

Hacker: to use a bit of software that someone else wrote (your use)

Hacker: to penetrate with your own skills, new defenses previously un penetrated (Agent's use in the extreme)


Overclocker: My Dad, who has no idea at all what I was on about, but I sent him a CD with Power Strip on it, and on the phone told him what to do, which slider to slide and now he's overclocked his video card. Hardly an Overclocker, and for that Agent is right. But according to you, my Dad is an overclocker.

Overclocker: Someone who with skill and heated rear window paint, unlocks the 4 extra piplines in his X800 Pro, and then puts a larger heatsink on with Arctic Silver paste and creates the fastest card on the market (give or take 5%) for less than £300. Much better.

Now, to avoid a "willy waving" competition the following things occur to me:

A person's definition is their own. I am a fast driver. Not as fast as Stig Blomquist, but faster than my Granny.

You are slight sarcastic, but bright as a sharp pin. I give you 100% on that.

Agent is my friend and colleague and I trust his judgement on most things PC 100%.

and therefore I am on his side. Howard's on your side. Howard is ALSO a good fella.

So I agree to disagree.

/hides behind sofa

[muffled mode] I'm still right tho[/muffled mode]

[Zak33]

(if you know what inter alia means).

no I didn't...so the thread's good cos I learned something today. Thanks

[Thorsson]

Hacker: to use a bit of software that someone else wrote (your use)

But it's not my use. It's the use of 99% of the world. I know four uses of the word hacker (you can also hack with a blade, for example), but only two of which relate to computing, and of those one has now become the de facto usage. If I talk about computers and hacking, no-one is going to think I'm talking about horses, and very few people are going to think I'm talking about low-level coders or similar. 99% are going to think I'm talking about people who gain unauthorised access to others computers. And the fact that 90% of those "hackers" are doing nothing clever, just illustrates the change that has happened. Not to mention that 75% of today's hackers are hacking with pure criminal intent.

To get back to my original point - you cannot criticise someone for using the common meaning of the word overclocker, because the largest portion of his readers will understand correctly what he wrote. I mean if you don't use the word overclocker to describe someone who overclocks their kit (and I think most OC'ers these days will at least modify their voltages even if they are only going by what the mobo reports), what word do you use for them?

The fact that many people here think that you ought not to be called an overclocker unless you like playing russian roulette with your kit is by the by. I stand by my original premise - it's you guys who need a new name, because you are going way beyond mere overclocking.

[Steve]

Blimey...

Overclocking is running components faster than stock. Therefore if you run a component faster than stock you are an overclocker. A "real", "serious", "hardcore" (or other similar word) overclocker will go greater lengths to achieve faster than stock speeds.

Regardless of all this, I still think that anybody who builds PC's, let alone "hardcore" overclockers, should have a basic knowledge of multimeters. They are invaluable tools.

Henceforth continue the "what defines an overclocker" discussion in another thread, if you so wish.