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Thread: For all you Warriors - Tanking - A how to guide

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    For all you Warriors - Tanking - A how to guide

    I saw this post on the official forums (All credit goes to original poster "Zarek" on the burning legion server).

    Tanking

    There's been a lot of talk about warriors not knowing how to tank, so this is my take on how to tank in an instance. All constructive criticism is welcome, all flames will be replied to with a "well write your own guide then" so save both of us some time and don't bother.

    I'll be thinking mainly about 5 man instance groups, although a lot is still more than relevant in the raid instances, what you learn at low level will see you through to molten core with ease.
    I'm not going to go into tanking talent builds, as my views are that 31/20 is just as good as any other and that prot isn't needed it just helps a little, I'm just going to cover the absolute basics that will give people a good basis for them to start on. However, I do make a few assumptions, mainly that you have tactical mastery, which if you don't, you will need to go and get. You cannot tank without it. Actually, you cannot do anything as a warrior without it. (well, you can, just not efficiently)

    Firstly, we have the 3 most important aspects of tanking.

    1 - First and foremost, use a shield!

    This may seem like a given, but you'd be surprised at how many people try to tank with a 2 hander. The excuses for this range from "I do more damage like this" "I don't have a shield/one hander" or "I generate more threat with a 2 hander". All of these are rubbish. Firstly, you are a tank, not a rogue or mage, you're not there to do damage. If you don't have a shield or a one hander then do not try to be main tank. As for generating more threat, that's the worst excuse as shield bash generates way more than any attack with a 2 hander will, and as the name suggests, it needs a shield.

    The main reason why you should always use a shield is the damage reduction. A priest will have a hard time keeping up with the heals if you insist on using a 2 hander. At 60 my shield adds around 12% extra damage reduction.
    Secondly, revenge, I'll cover this skill in more detail later, but needless to say shield = block = revenge.

    (I know that when you're a pr0 ub3r tank you can use a 2-hander and think you're just as good as anyone else, but really, you're not. Lets leave it at that and no "I cn tnk wid a 2hndr" posts please)

    2 - Be defensive!


    Defensive stance is a must. Not only does it reduce the damage taken by 10%, it also generates additional threat, and has a few nice abilities that are great for holding agro. I've grouped with many warriors that refuse to tank in defensive stance, to them the 10% less damage they give is more important than the 10% less damage they take. These are bad warriors. Most of your time should be spent in defensive stance. As a general rule, if you can do it in defensive stance, then do it in defensive stance. This goes for everything from sunder armor to demo shout. While it may not be much doing these in defensive stance adds extra threat that makes it harder for you to lose agro.

    3 - Protect your priest.


    If something is beating down on your priest, get it off them, your sole job when your priest is losing health is to get whatever mob is on them off them and onto you. If the priest goes down, you go down. The ways of doing this vary greatly, and depending on the situation. If your priest is close you can just switch target, taunt and then build agro on that mob until you're sure it's on you. If your priest is far away your main goal is to get to them as soon as possible. My favoured technique is to switch to berserker stance, intercept, then back to defensive and taunt. If there are multiple mobs on your priest you're going to want to follow this with a battle stance, mocking blow, or in worse situations, challenging shout.
    As a warrior your priest will be relying on you to keep them free from agro, just as you will be relying on them for healing. If they have agro, you can't be healed.

    Once you know the 3 basics you have the foundation of knowledge you need to enter the world of a tank. However, that's just the beginning.

    There are 3 stages in tanking that you'll encounter, each of these is as important as the next, and to be a complete tank you will have to master them all.

    Getting initial agro

    There is nothing more important than getting initial agro on a group of mobs, without agro you gain less rage, which makes it harder to get agro. It's a viscous circle that basically means that a bad start can mean a bad finish.

    -Start with a charge if you can - This doesn't just give you rage, it has a stun chance, which = threat. If you can't start with a charge (like if you have to pull mobs towards you) then blood rage is a good skill for getting you some much needed rage to start throwing out the agro building moves.
    -Follow up with a demo shout - This doesn't just reduce their attack power, it allows you to get a little agro on each of the mobs so they are less likely to take an immediate interest in your priest.
    -Try to fit in a Whirlwind - don't overlook this skill. It may be in berserker stance, but attacking 4 mobs = threat on 4 mobs.

    This should take around 5 seconds, and then and only then should the rest of the group attack.


    Threat building


    Once you have the initial agro on each of the mobs you're going to want to keep increasing your threat so as none of them come off you and attack someone else. Luckily as a warrior you have several key skills that are useful for building threat.

    Sunder armor,
    Revenge,
    Shield bash,
    Disarm.

    These are the 4 key agro building tools you have available to you, and you should have everyone on your hotbar in easy to use positions.

    Sunder is our spammable skill that builds a fair bit of threat, you'll find yourself using this a lot as it has a low rage cost, and builds a nice amount of threat. All the mobs that you are tanking should have sunder on them.

    Revenge is a great skill that builds a lot of threat. It can only be used after you dodge, block or parry, but after a couple of revenges Ragnaros himself won’t be able to pull a mob from you. This should always be used on the main target when it's available. It'll make them stick to you like glue.

    Shield bash doesn't just interrupt spell casting, it makes them hate you as well! It builds threat on non-casters just as well as casters. This is another skill that you should be using mainly on the main target; it'll keep them on you even when you're building up threat on the other mobs.

    Disarm is great for reducing the amount of damage you take, but also for building threat. There's a lot of mortal strike speced mobs out there, and we all know how nasty mortal strike is, disarming them stops them from using it on you, and also makes them hate you for it.

    To make sure you keep enough agro on the main target you need to spend most of your time building threat on that. However, you cannot ignore the rest of the mobs.
    Between each threat building attack on each of the mobs not being attacked, you should do at least one on the main target. That means no matter how many mobs are on you, you still spend half your time making sure you can keep the main target on you, and the other half building threat on the others to ensure your priest doesn't pull agro with a heal.

    You may be wondering how you'll keep track of which mobs you've been building agro on and which you've let slip. For this I recommend the sunderthis add-on. It allows you to show the currently sundered value above a mobs target box. That way if every time you cycle through a mob to build agro on it you sunder you can keep a count on which mobs have had more of your time than others, and keep your threat level pretty even on each of them.


    Getting back the agro


    At some stage or another, either through a trigger happy mage, gung-ho rogue, or you not having enough threat to cover that big heal from the priest (it's never the priests fault, if the priest gets agro, it's your fault), you will lose agro. It's no big deal, as long as you know how to get it back.
    The obvious choice here is taunt. It does exactly what it says on the tooltip and makes them attack you again. If it's just one mob that turned away then all well and good, a quick taunt and back to threat building we go.
    However if things have gone more wrong than that you may need to draw on a couple of other skills.

    -Mocking blow, in battle stance forces a mob to attack you for 6 seconds, just enough time for you to get off a few sunders, maybe a revenge, and a shield bash.

    -Challenging shout makes all mobs attack you for 6 seconds, in which time you'll need to cycle through all of them and fire off those sunders.

    -Or, in the worst possible situation, where everything has gone wrong and it looks like nothing will get all the mobs on you, we have the patent pending "oh !&$%, everything’s gone to $!@%" method of getting agro back, the one chance only, no turning back, uber threat building combination of... challenging shout retaliation! That's right folks, if things go wrong we don't go down without a fight, warriors never say die, back against the wall, or a corners even better (we don't want any attacks from behind now) and hit challenging shout... then retaliation, then sit back and watch the numbers fly, and imagine your threat level skyrocketing. If that doesn't save your group from a wipe on a bad pull when your cloth wearers are all taking hits then nothing will. (try not to make a habit of that though... at once every half hour it's not really a spammable tactic)

    Main Assists

    A lot of people seem to have the idea that the main tank should also be the main assist, the guy everyone assists to find the mob that people should do damage to. This isn't true, in fact this is probably the worst way of doing things.
    The main tank and the main assist should always be 2 different people, generally a damage dealer should play the part of main assist.
    This is due to the fact that as a tank you will never be targeting the same mob all the time. You will need to constant rotate between each of the mobs on you to keep building threat on each of them. If you sit there attacking the one mob that everyone is attacking as soon as a heal goes on every one of the other mobs will run straight at your priest, and remember what we said about protecting your priest? And if you're acting as main assist as a tank then people could have a different target depending on when they decided to assist you, and there's nothing worse than trying to keep 2 mobs on you that are being spammed with high damage attacks.

    The way that I find a lot easier is if one of the other members of the party is the main assist, and everyone has their assist macros set to them even you) This way you wont have your party complaining that you keep switching target and they don't know who to attack.

    Pulling

    Always pull.
    This is one of the most important parts of tanking. Pulling means that the mobs will initially target you, it's easier for you to build agro if they are already attacking you rather than having to pull them off someone else. You will get to learn when and how to pull.
    The other main benefit of you pulling is that in the worst case scenario, when a pull goes bad, when you pull the entire room because you didn't see the patrol and you have 10 mobs beating into you, you can die alone. It will save you from a wipe. However, make sure your group knows this is the case, you don't want your priest healing you on a really bad pull and the whole group having to go down. Making a macro to say something like "bad pull DO NOT heal or attack" to warn your group of a really bad pull will save lives.

    When and where to pull

    Always spend a moment to look for any patrols.
    Only when you are sure that there are no patrols should you consider pulling.
    Only pull things that have a clear path towards you. This is really a no-brainer, but pulling through other mobs pulls them too.
    Always try to pull around a corner. This stops any ranged mobs from staying ranged on you, they will lose line of sight so will have to come into your melee range.
    Learn the patterns. There is always a pattern. Learning it makes your job a lot easier, if you know when and where each patrol will be coming, you know when to pull each group, or when to wait and pull the patrol instead.

    You and your ranged weapon

    Get the fastest weapon you can, damage is irrelevant, stats are nice but not needed.
    Get to know your ranged weapon, this may sound strange, but you need to know how long it takes from you hitting the button, to it actually firing. Nothing is worse than hitting fire at that perfect pulling position, then having to wait for your bow to fire by which time that nasty patrol is back down this end of the room right next to the group you were trying to pull. Knowing your firing speed can be the difference between pulling a group of mobs, and pulling a group of mobs plus a patrol.

    Group Leadership

    It's easier as a whole if you take control of the group. You are the one that should always be first into a fight, so you are the one that should decide when and how that fight happens. Many a time you will encounter people who want to be in command. People who will want to pull, don't let them.
    The most important aspect of being a tank is being able to control your group. You need them to follow your lead, otherwise things will go wrong. Once you have ran an instance a couple of times you will be in a lot better position to lead than anyone else, use this to your advantage.
    You should be responsible for calling the shots, if you want a sap you should say, if you want a shackle or sheep pull, you should call it. However don't think that just because you are ready the rest of the group is. We have no downtime, we can keep up with the Duracell bunny, and unfortunately your casters can't. It's paramount that you keep an eye on your casters mana bars. If it's empty then you're on your own, and we all know how well a warrior does against multiple elites with no healing. Always make sure that no one is sat down drinking when you go off to pull the next group of mobs.

    And that's about it. I'm sure there are some things that I've missed, but that's all I have for now as it's nearly 4am. Feel free to comment about anything or add to this with your own tanking tips.

    Note on sunder - Alot of people have been saying it's been stealth nerfed to generate less threat, I haven't noticed this, I generally don't need to spam it more than 5 times on a mob to hold agro anyway, and as such it is still working well for me.
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  2. #2
    HEXUS.social member Allen's Avatar
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    Good read, even for a non-warrior (well, except my low level warrior ).

    One thing, is assist a command or something? Does it enable you to find which target the tank is attacking?

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    If you target an ally and type /assist you will target whoever the ally is targetting.

    If in macro you put /assist mattak and click that button you will target whoever I am targeting.

    After reading this Velan, and knowing YOU have read it, I am much, much more confident about BRD...this is exactly where we have been going wrong. From now, you always pull, Lil/Mad/I never do. Cycle targets - I would guess you haven't been doing that? Not being critical, we all need to learn more about how to play our chars...

    To be fair we were doing rather nicely last night, a couple of good fights where I was healing and NOT dying for once!

    Looking forward to tonight as ever!
    Well Hello!

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    Eosamite Rhyth's Avatar
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    Thanks mate.

    We may want to get me a shield before WC then mate, I'll see what I can do. At the moment I'm using a kick ass blue two-hander sword but I do have a good one-hand sword to wield to.
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    It's a command, if you target a friendly and use /assist you will acquire their target. Assist is bound to 'f' by default.

    Bah, too slow. :l

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    Quote Originally Posted by daverobev
    After reading this Velan, and knowing YOU have read it, I am much, much more confident about BRD...this is exactly where we have been going wrong. From now, you always pull, Lil/Mad/I never do. Cycle targets - I would guess you haven't been doing that? Not being critical, we all need to learn more about how to play our chars...
    A lot of it comes with experience I think. You'll notice instances get easier the more you do them (not just repeating the same one, just doing instances in general). I've noticed that doing molten core has made other instances seem a hell of a lot easier, MC does take the piss in places though.

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    Nice post Scientist , but on the subject of pulling , i have a diferent opinion...

    Pulling is a situational affair , it depends on were , when and with who , sometimes the warrior is the perfect puller others he is the causer of a wipe...

    when im on a team doing some instance , im the puller ( only a few times , the most critical ones ) or the assistant puller for a Tank ( more often ) , i scan the area with my radar or use eagle eye to see the paths and distance between mobs then i mark the most suitable one with the hunters mark , but sometimes ( in instances that dont have much manouvering space ) , crowd control chars are the best assintant pullers , like mages , priest an even rogues.

    So pulling is very situational , it depends on many factors , use your instints and your m8s on the group to take the best aproach.

    but , remember the tank must be , always , the aggro sponge... so the high dps chars should start easy to give time to the tank to take the aggro.

    ho , and always bring a hunter , he is the best cloth protector ...
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    Hunter is very useful to take tha aggro off a mage with distracting shot but sometimes one of those fireballs just pisses someone off a little too much...
    I'm sorry if i can't answer you right now but I'm too busy stuffing my gob (with cake)

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    As an actual tank rather than just an oppinion person I'll never tank - reasons why are simple

    - tanks never get any of the good pickups (others grab them first)

    - if you do roll for an item but you're busy fighting you get grief from other mooching at the back who have the time to look and choose

    - ARMOUR DAMAGE is bloody pricey but tanks pay loads for this others at the back a heck of alot less to repair after an instance, I had 1.5G worth of damage the other night yet made no where nr enuf to pay for it from the instance, unlike others

    - people usually try to tell you what you should be doing and how youre tanking wrong without realising they are not offering much at all to the whole thing.....

    - lastly why tank? Its not my problem in an instance if u get butchered in 5 seconds flat , Ill look after a healer if hes bothering but usually they look after their mates first

    - you're the last to get resurected after a fight and sometimes Ive had to run back ....

    tanking is not my job description if I choose do it I will but where do people get off telling me to tank all the time???

    just an oppinion of a tank you understand....oooh shock tanks have an oppinion weedy **** mages....grrrrrrrrrrrr
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    I took the road less traveled by Scientist's Avatar
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    I dont really agree romanov,I think that in a balanced party a tank is extremly useful and has been in all our runs to instances so far - Also the rolling thing isnt an issue in a good group - nobody I do instances with would roll on plate or warrior style weapons before asking me..

    I think tanking isnt the only job for a warrior but try killing onxyia without one
    Last edited by Scientist; 26-04-2005 at 08:29 PM.
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    Something to understand - people invite certain classes to groups for a reason. As a warrior you are expected to tank because that's what you do best, and you do it better than anyone else. If tanking isn't your thing I'd really suggest you try a different class because you'll get a lot of grief otherwise. Imagine if you invited a priest to a group who refused to heal, because he didn't like it, I expect you'd be pretty annoyed when he just let you die a few times, refusing to tank is the same sort of thing.
    Instances groups basically have fixed roles which need to be filled:
    1. Main Tank - almost always a warrior, the main tank will take most of the hits.
    2. Off-tank - paladin, druid, shaman, warrior, hunter - basically anything which can take somewhat of a beating and stay standing. Used to relieve pressure on the main tank in big pulls.
    3. Main Healer - almost always a priest, heals the party, especially the main tank.
    4. Backup healer - paladin, druid, shaman, priest - acts as backup healer to the main, will often double as off-tank or extra DPS.
    5. DPS - mage, warlock, hunter, rogue - kills things, fast.

    As a warrior you're only going to be invited into tanking rolls. You can't heal so you don't fit that role, and for DPS you offer less than any other DPS class - they all have better DPS and mostly some form of crowd control, buffs or similar utility.

    Basically, you picked warrior, the main tank of WoW. Tanking is not only in your job decription, it is the very core of your class. If you want to be a DPS class, roll a rogue.

    As for your points:

    Pickups - if group loot is on they are evenly distributed so it's not an issue. If group loot isn't on insist they put it on or leave.

    Rolling - wait till the fight is over, it's rare a fight will be so long you can't wait till it's done to roll. Also tell people to stop looting and start fighting then you don't have to worry about it popping up mid battle.

    Armour - tanks get hit for armour, others get hit with different expenses. You don't have to pay money for reagents to cast spells for instance, which others do. If money is really tight ask people to donate, even so everyone's armour wears some amount, whether they tank or not so it's not like everyone else has zero costs.

    Why tank? - because otherwise you'll be dead along with the rest of the group. high level instances require someone tanking. It is literally impossible to do them without having aggro on the warrior.

    Res - Priests can res you even after you release, if it's a long run just sit tight at the graveyard. I don't exactly get ressed fast a mage either you know (usually up after the warriors TBH). In my experience unless you're a priest or shaman/paladin you'll have to wait for res. It doesn't really matter anyway, the party isn't going to be doing anything without the warrior up (at least if they want to stay alive they won't).

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    Its a good post and i think some ppl (not warriors) really need to read it and start remembering when ingame.

    At lev 48atm, am I a tank. no, not really. At this time i have neither the instance exp or the willingness to have to shout orders to ppl when grouped. Am I aware of what i need to be trying to do, yes.

    imo warriors have two choices for talents. pvp or instances. we can speck ourselfs for one or the other and altho like everything u can do one with the other thats not the point here.

    Butcher says it all nicly tho

    Just remember that if u charge in with all ur high agro spells/powers and pull everything to u... and often. I might get slower to rescue you
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    A lovely post - nice one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geist
    Butcher says it all nicly tho
    Thanks, it's all stuff I picked up doing instances really - I do a LOT of high level instance raiding (currently molten core is the main one).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geist
    Just remember that if u charge in with all ur high agro spells/powers and pull everything to u... and often. I might get slower to rescue you
    Good point. I haven't tanked in any instances but if I'm questing with others, I always try to take the front and, therefore, the brunt of the attacks. There's nothing more annoying than having got it right, a blast of shadow magic or a fireball comes soaring over from the magic caster (safely standing some distance away ) and the target promptly runs off over to them. Pulling them back after a dose of heavy magic is quite hard.

    If I'm to do this successfully, I'll need a good one handed axe. Is anyone able to make me one? And Lummie (at least I think it was speaking to), if you read this, I'll have that green helm we were discussing last night.

  16. #16
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    Some good points raised

    Not being a tank (But having my own personal bodyguard) there are lots of things i never realised - a real eye opener Thanks.

    And in a direct answer to romanov and pickups, i know exactly what you mean, sometimes when you group with peepz you dont know everyone is rolling for evrrything and gets real messy. Tantrums happen and they leave the group......too messy!
    I have a solution though - always get the rules straight at the start! Not always easy with people you dont know.....one rule i insist on is "No Pickups" till all mobs are dead. That way you can type "n" or "g" after you have had time to look at the drop and evaluate whether it benefits you

    "tuppence worth"
    Arathor

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