Getting into Photography

[kalniel]

I went to Jessops over the weekend and had a play with the D3100 and really liked the look and feel, and it fits into my budget perfectly, but am I going to regret going for this camera a year or so down the line?

What are the main drawbacks of this camera, compared to say the Canon 60D?

Have a look at the reviews. Image quality is almost identical for realistic uses, so the main difference will be in how you use the camera - the 60D will have more advanced features and customisation, while the D3100 might be easier to use. I don't have experience of the kind of entry-level cameras the D3100 is, the class didn't really exist when I bought a DLSR and I went in straight at the 60D level, which was no problem for me, but I'm equally sure the D3100 would not be all that limiting either for most intents and purposes.

As ever, try them out and go with which you prefer to handle.

Will you regret it in the future? Yes in both cases! Technology moves on and you will nearly always find your camera is 'worth' less and newer better stuff is available down the line.. ignore that feeling - the pictures you take won't suddenly get worse now that a newer camera is out.

Is the lack of a focus motor a big issue?

Not in the slightest, unless you have some old nikon lenses lying around or want to pick some up second hand. There's more than enough modern glass available however.

[Dareos]

You can alwalys sell on your old camera or make a gift of it to someone in a couple of years if you want to step up. What would be worse would be spending a fortune on a camera and finding that photography just isnt your thing

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I'm disappointed, I wanted a full on Canon Vs Nikon flame war, possibly with the Moose popping up with a Sony Bridge camera as an alternative, only to be shouted down by the masses screaming about focal lengths, megapixels and quality of lenses.

Fuji XS1 FTW!!





Probably the finest bridge camera I have ever handled.It has a fantastic viewfinder and the AF is decent IMHO.

As others have said, the D3100 offers a very low price, but you'd be better off with a second hand older camera, you will have more features, something with an in body lens motor will really enable you to use more lenses.

Alternatively, and this is pure speculation, the K-30 which is released soon, will be £500 by autumn. The reason I'd recommend that is because its got a great sensor (latest generation tech, good in low light compared to the 3100), good build quality (weather sealed, do not do what they do in their pictures of it with a Nikon or Canon prosumer device!), a 100% viewfinder (most don't show 100% in this price bracket), and I'm a ranging pentax fan boy. Half kidding there, but I don't think they get the mention they deserve compared to the big two!

To the OP I would also not ignore the offerings from both Pentax and Sony too. The Pentax dSLRs are pretty decent and the K mount has a whole load of legacy AF and manual focus lenses which will work with,and older Minolta AF lenses will work fine with the Sony cameras. For instance on the Pentax side,the K5 and K30 look pretty decent value for money as they have Pentaprisms and weather sealing.

Also,do not ignore the mirrorless cameras too,as they might actually suit your usage patterns better and tend to be more more compact. They also use similar sized sensors to dSLRs in most cases. Of course for action and longer telephoto work,the dSLR form factor is better.

As kalniel says go and try out the cameras. Also as he suggested,LCE is a great shop - the one on The Strand in London was quite impartial from memory. I would also says Jacobs is also quite a good store to visit.

Another shop in London worth visiting,is Camera World which is located off Oxford Street.

Another,thing I would be very vary of getting into the "A" has a better system than "B" argument due to their professional options.

For the sort of budget you are looking at,it is really no point getting too worried for a few reasons:
1.)If you intend to get something like a higher end body,many of the companies will have better models upto around £1000.
2.)All the current systems have better "upgrade" lenses whuch cover all the most important focal lengths. People complain about Pentax for example,but they have dozens of APS-C lenses.
3.)Ignore the full frame argument.
4.)Plenty of indepenedent lenses are available.
5.)Are you really going to use you budget lenses on a £1000+ body (outside a cheap lens like a 50MM)?? You are more likely going to have to get better/different lenses in the first place,so in the scheme of things,just get the best options for you regardless of brand.

Many shops will push you towards certain brands due to financial reasons. It even goes down to the extent that you will find products from certain companies put to the back of the store without any charged batteries for the camera. For example Canon has loaned Jessops £10 milion and Nikon has reps in some of their stores such as the flagship near Centre Point(however,the chap I saw last time I visited the store was very helpful - so if you want to get a Nikon camera it is worth visiting the store when he is in).

There is also a lot of brand snobbery among many amateur photographers.

[sleepyhead]

As others have said, go to shops and try them out! There is no harm is testing out many cameras with different types of lenses.

Before I purchased my mirrorless compact system camera, I was looking at various SLTs/SLRs on the market. I'm pretty lucky in that I have a Nikon plaza 3 floors above me, a Canon showroom 5 minutes walk away and a Sony Centre in the next building! I handled many cameras and was blown away by cameras such as the D3s, A77 and 5DMK3, but the prices were way crazy. Personally, I found holding an SLR/SLT for a long time was just too annoying. Big and bulky, it wasn't what I wanted for a camera, even though they took some wicked pictures. I loved the phase detect AF, but really disliked the bulkiness.

I found the Sony NEX-5N system and enjoyed using it. I tried the Oly EP3, but I just didn't like how it felt in my hands, even though the pictures in auto mode were brilliant. In the end, I settled for the 5N and never looked back. I've added to the 18-55mm kit range with the 50mm F1.8 and a Sigma 19mm F2.8 prime. I just want a nice long telephoto zoom that's nice and fast to finish the list! So I spent SLT/SLR money on a non-SLR/SLT body camera, but I don't regret it. I just wish more 3rd parties would make E-Mount lenses. (P.S. I hope to sell the kit zoom now. I found I only ever shoot at one end or the other! Haha! So primes work for me!)

[dankellys]

Thanks again for the advice everyone. Here is my 'starter list', does anyone think I am missing anything:


- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-D3100-...0740440&sr=1-2 - £364.58 - Nikon D3100 Digital SLR Camera 18-55vr Kit

- http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/prod...ucts_id=111296 - 2 x £9.39 - Duracell Secure Digital SDHC Memory Card - 16GB - Pro Photo 200X - Class 10 - 30MB/s

- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tuff-Luv-hol...ref=pd_cp_ce_3 - £12.99 - Tuff-Luv 'ZipNGo' holster

- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-D3100-...e_ai_books_t_1 - £13.59 - Nikon D3100: From Snapshots to Great Shots

- http://www.amazon.co.uk/52mm-Flower-...0878649&sr=1-3 - £7.99 -52mm Flower Petal Lens Hood

POSSIBLE ADDITIONS:

- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-55-200...0740780&sr=8-1 - £132 - Nikon 55-200MM F/4-5.6 AF-S VR DX

- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Polaroid-PL1...741267&sr=1-14 - £39.99 - Polaroid PL108AF Shoe Mount Flashgun for Nikon

[kalniel]

I'd get a shoulder bag rather than a holster style bag - it's easier to keep the camera and lenses in one place, and you are more likely to actually swap to a lens if you are used to carrying it with the camera.

Smallest would be something like: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lowepro-Nova...0879626&sr=1-1

But don't afraid to go larger.

And are they really making you pay extra for a lens hood?

[dankellys]

I'd get a shoulder bag rather than a holster style bag - it's easier to keep the camera and lenses in one place, and you are more likely to actually swap to a lens if you are used to carrying it with the camera.

Smallest would be something like: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lowepro-Nova...0879626&sr=1-1

But don't afraid to go larger.

OK thanks for that, I will look into it. Whats your views on back-pack style bags? Have seen a few which I quite liked.

And are they really making you pay extra for a lens hood?

To be honest, I have done most of my pricing through Amazon (as you can see) Where would you recommend I actually do the purchasing? I assume the fact that I am having to pay for the lens hood, suggests that Amazon might not be the best place.

I have had a lot of recommendations for London Camera Exchange, but they dont have a store anywhere near me in the North East, and Jessops seems expensive. Would you recommend buying online, and where from?

[TheAnimus]

And are they really making you pay extra for a lens hood?

I was thinking that!

I was warned by someone that a replacement for my DA*50-135 f2.8 would cost me about £50.

I would have thought a generic based on the filter size might not work very well and even be pointless.

Infact a quick look at the reviews, and its:

When you attach the hood on the lense even though it looks perfect in the begining you will notice that when you focus (in most cases) you will have a shadow on the top left and bottom left corner. As a result you have to screw or unscrew ,a little bit, the hood every single time that you wish to focus!
As this is not possible, the product is totally useless.

I don't know why your looking at that OP but it strikes me as a fashion accessory that will hurt image quality.

[dankellys]

I don't know why your looking at that OP but it strikes me as a fashion accessory that will hurt image quality.

Hmm, sounds like there are split opinion on these. I have been reading on the talk photography forum that there is no real need for a filter on a dSLR lens (only on old film cameras), and that a hood should be sufficient enough to protect the lens.

Quote from talkphotography forum:

You DON'T NEED a uv filter they serve no purpose whatsover, unless you are really worried about damaging the front element on your lens.If you use the lens hood, this should never happen. And as pointed out, you can buy a brand new lens for little more than the cost of the filter if it's the kit lens you will be using.

Another said:

There are many debates on TP regarding UV filters. As far as I understand them they were useful in film days, but with digital etc they offer very little in terms of optical benefit.

As said above they can be used just to protect the lens. Though you should bear in mind that you are now putting another layer in front of a lens developed by Nikon at great expense.

I fell for the Jessops 'must have a uv filter' line when I bought my first DSLR. Then I had a read on here and took it off...I've never used one since. Other types of filters, like polarisers, do offer benefits, but I'd wait until you've had the camera for a bit then see what you actually need.

Would you not agree with that?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Have you considered the 18-105MM standard zoom instead:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001EO6W8...SIN=B001EO6W8K

It gives you a wider range than the 18-55MM. Also with the telephoto lens,I would save up some more money and get the following eventually:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003ZSHNC...SIN=B003ZSHNCC

Also,have you considered the Pentax K-X:

http://www.dixons.co.uk/gbuk/pentax-...trmaa&istBid=t

It has got good reviews and the standard zoom set is cheaper than the Nikon D3100 set. It also uses AA batteries.

[kalniel]

OK thanks for that, I will look into it. Whats your views on back-pack style bags? Have seen a few which I quite liked.

I haven't got one myself, but I think they're probably great, especially if you're on a trip just for photography purposes. The nice thing about a smallish shoulder bag is you can carry a rucksack as well (or put it at the bottom of a rucksack if you don't think you'll need the camera in a hurry).

To be honest, I have done most of my pricing through Amazon (as you can see) Where would you recommend I actually do the purchasing? I assume the fact that I am having to pay for the lens hood, suggests that Amazon might not be the best place.

No it's not a statement on Amazon, just how tight Nikon are if they don't include lens hoods with the lens or kit, though I would expect if you bought it from a bricks and mortar store they'd throw one in for free. Don't worry about it though - it's quite rare you actually need a hood.

I have had a lot of recommendations for London Camera Exchange, but they dont have a store anywhere near me in the North East, and Jessops seems expensive. Would you recommend buying online, and where from?

Amazon is fine, jacobs digital used to be fine but I think they are going bust.

edit: re talkphotography - absolutely right, you don't need a UV filter. However that's not the same thing as saying you need a hood. It's only if you were worried about scratching the front element during the act of taking a photo (the rest of the time your lens cap is on). This is actually really hard to do unless you're shooting macros.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The Jacobs store near Centre Point was still open when I was in London a few weeks ago.

[dankellys]

Have you considered the 18-105MM standard zoom instead:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001EO6W8...SIN=B001EO6W8K

It gives you a wider range than the 18-55MM. Also with the telephoto lens,I would save up some more money and get the following eventually:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003ZSHNC...SIN=B003ZSHNCC

Really like the look of both those lenses, but budget is really tight at the moment (probably an absolute max of £500, for everything I need to get started), as I am also purchasing a new laptop at the same time (which is another £800). But I may sell the kit lens in the future, and go for those 2 lenses.

Also,have you considered the Pentax K-X:

http://www.dixons.co.uk/gbuk/pentax-...trmaa&istBid=t

It has got good reviews and the standard zoom set is cheaper than the Nikon D3100 set. It also uses AA batteries.

Hadn't really considered Pentax, as a brand. What are they like generally? Im trying to be conscious of the future, and trying to bear in mind that I may replace the body further down the line, aren't I better sticking with a brand like Canon or Nikon, who have a massive range of lenses and accessories?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Hadn't really considered Pentax, as a brand. What are they like generally? Im trying to be conscious of the future, and trying to bear in mind that I may replace the body further down the line, aren't I better sticking with a brand like Canon or Nikon, who have a massive range of lenses and accessories?

Pentax is nearly as old as Nikon and older than Canon. They have been around for 83 years and the K mount has been around for 37 years. With the lenses,you are buying there is no real advantage to Nikon and Canon and Pentax will be around for a long time IMHO.

If you consider the Nikon as a camera is better,then get it,but don't get caught up with branding. Really do consider the other options from Pentax,Olympus and Sony - you might find they suit you better. Judge the cameras on their merits.

In the end you will still need to get better lenses to make full advantage of a higher end body,so would need to ditch them too.

Like I mentioned before shops will push you towards Nikon and Canon as chains like Jessops are being financially supported by then. Jessops got £10 million from Canon recently for example.

Here is the K mount lens range on the Pentax website:

http://www.pentax.co.uk/en/system-kb-zoom.html

smc DA 10-17 mm / 3,5~4,5 ED (IF) Fisheye
smc DA 12-24 mm / 4,0 ED AL(IF)
smc DA 14 mm / 2,8 ED (IF)
smc DA 15mm f/4 ED AL Limited
smc DA 16-45 mm / 4,0 ED AL
smc DA* 16-50mm F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM
smc DA 17-70mm f/4.0 AL (IF) SDM
smc DA 18-55mm II f/3.5-5.6 ED AL (IF)
smc DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AL WR
smc DA 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 ED AL [IF] DC WR
smc DA 18-250mm f/3.5-6.3
smc DA 21mm f/3.2 AL Limited
DA 21mm f/3.2 AL Limited Silver
smc FA 31 / 1,8 AL Limited
smc DA 35mm f/2.4 AL
smc DA 35mm f/2.8 macro
DA 40mm F/2.8 XS
smc DA 40 mm / 2,8 Limited
DA 40mm f/2.8 Limited Silver
smc FA 43 mm / 1,9 Limited
smc DA 50mm F/1.8
smc DFA 50mm / 2.8 Macro
smc DA* 50-135mm F2.8 ED (IF) SDM
smc DA 50-200mm f/4-5.6 ED
smc DA 50-200mm f/4.0-5.6 ED WR
smc DA* 55mm f/1.4 SDM
smc DA 55-300mm f/4.0-5.8 ED
smc DA 60-250 f/4.0 ED (IF) SDM
smc DA 70mm f/ 2.4 AL Limited
DA 70mm f/2.4 Limited Silver
smc FA 77 mm / 1,8 Limited
smc DFA 100 mm / 2.8 Macro
smc D-FA 100 mm f/2,8 Macro WR
smc DA* 200mm f/2.8 ED(IF) SDM
smc DA* 300mm f/4.0 ED (IF) SDM

The only lenses which I see are missing are some very wide aperture lenses,ie, F1.4 ones,a telephoto over 400MM and specialist stuff like tilt-shift. However,this is not relevant to all photographers though. On top of this there are a whole load of older KAF lenses which should work and loads of independent lenses which will fill in the blanks too. The K mount has been around for decades.

However,even then for the vast majority of people,the Pentax themselves have a big enough range of lenses anyway.

Here is the list of Nikon lenses(the list has many repeated lenses):

http://www.cameralabs.com/lenses/Nik..._listing.shtml

A few of them seem to be older legacy lenses which are probably not used that much any more and a number of them exist to service the 35MM frame sized sensor cameras which means they are irrelevant to most of their customers,unlike,in the film days and many of them are older designs from that era.

DX lenses

AF DX Fisheye 10.5mm f/2.8G ED
AF-S DX 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5G ED
AF-S DX 12-24mm f/4G IF-ED
AF-S DX 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR
AF-S DX 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II
AF-S DX 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR
AF-S DX 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED
AF-S DX 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G VR
AF-S DX 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED
AF-S DX VR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VRII
AF-S DX VR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED
AF-S DX 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED
AF-S DX 35mm f/1.8G
AF-S DX 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED
AF-S DX VR 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED
AF-S DX VR Micro 85mm f/3.5G ED

So that is 16 DX lenses.


Non-DX lenses

AF-S 14-24mm f/2.8G ED
AF-S 16-35mm f/4G ED VR
AF-S 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED
AF 18-35mm f/3.5-4.5D IF-ED
AF-S 24-70mm f/2.8G ED
AF 24-85mm f/2.8-4D IF
AF-S VR 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED
AF-S 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED
AF 28-80mm f/3.3-5.6G
AF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5D
AF 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED
AF 35-70mm f/2.8D
AF 70-300mm f/4-5.6G
AF-S VR 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VRII
AF-S VR 70-200mm f/2.8G IF-ED
AF-S VR 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED
AF 80-200mm f/2.8D ED
AF VR 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D ED
AF-S VR 200-400mm f/4G IF-ED
AF 14mm f/2.8D ED
AF Fisheye 16mm f/2.8D
AF 18mm f/2.8D
AF 20mm f/2.8D
AF-S 24mm f/1.4G ED
AF 24mm f/2.8D
AF 28mm f/2.8D
AF 35mm f/2D
AF 50mm f/1.4D
AF 50mm f/1.8D
AF 85mm f/1.4D IF
AF 85mm f/1.8D
AF DC 105mm f/2D
AF DC 135mm f/2D
AF 180mm f/2.8D IF-ED
AF-S 200mm f/2G IF-ED VR
AF-S 300mm f/2.8G IF-ED VR
AF-S 300mm f/2.8G ED VR II
AF-S 300mm f/4D IF-ED
AF-S 400mm f/2.8D IF-ED II
AF-S 400mm f/2.8G ED VR
AF-S 500mm f/4G ED VR
AF-S 500mm f/4D IF-ED II
AF-S 600mm f/4G ED VR
AF-S 600mm f/4D IF-ED II
AF Micro 60mm f/2.8D
AF-S Micro 60mm f/2.8G ED
AF-S VR Micro 105mm f/2.8G IF-ED
AF Micro 200mm f/4D IF-ED
PC Micro 85mm f/2.8D
PC-E 24mm f3.5D ED

52 non-DX lenses and many of them seem to be older legacy designs from the 1980s and 1990s.

The vast majority of people will be buying the DX lenses listed,and some of the FX primes listed,ie,the 50MM and maybe the macro lenses.

Most of the FX telephotos are for pros and cost silly money(irrelevant to most dSLR owners due to cost and weight),loads of the zooms were kit lenses for 35MM film bodies(irrelevant now),many have been superceded by DX lenses and newer FX lenses(probably made to order now) and the rest are for FX bodies and some are very specialist lenses. Very few people would buy many of those lenses for DX bodies any more.

Pentax has as many APS-C optimised lenses as Nikon. These are the lenses which are relevant to you.

Nikon has more legacy 35MM lenses though which need at least a D90 or D7000 to work with and many are ancient designs - I can remember reading about them when I was younger. Some of the FX telephotos are thousands of pounds,so are you really go to buy one and put it on a cheaper body??

So,really go into a shop and try them out.

[dankellys]

In that case, Pentax are definitely worth considering, £450 for the body with 2 lenses is a really good deal. And, like you mentioned earlier, the reviews are really good. Will have to get down to Dixons and have a go with it.

Have been to Jessops already, but as soon as i mentions the Nikon D3100, all they did was try to push me towards a slightly more expensive Nikon/Canon.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

In that case, Pentax are definitely worth considering, £450 for the body with 2 lenses is a really good deal. And, like you mentioned earlier, the reviews are really good. Will have to get down to Dixons and have a go with it.

Have been to Jessops already, but as soon as i mentions the Nikon D3100, all they did was try to push me towards a slightly more expensive Nikon/Canon.

The Pentax uses AA batteries,so I am not sure if you get some rechargeable ones already with the package - but I would still take a set of 4 alkalines with you just in case there are,ahem,no batteries in the shop. Its a common tactic I noticed - they have a Pentax,Olympus or Sony camera but either "lose" the battery or don't charge it up.

In that sense companies like LCE and Jacobs Digital are so much better!

I suspect they might be pushing you towards the D3200 and D5100.