Canon 70D

[TheAnimus]

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-70d

Full Disclosure: I have used video mode on my cameras maybe twice.....

So the main feature is they have a kind of phase detection for focus in live view mode, I seldom use live view mode, but isn't this what we have seen already with some micro 4/3rds such as the Nikon 1? I mean ultimately by using the filters the way they have the sensor will be less sensitive, or throwing away information. I really get the design from a mirror-less point of view, but not on a DSLR. Do I want to sacrifice my image quality? Considering the flack people having been giving Nikon for cramming their sensor so full of diodes, I find it odd that Canon does the same, but for focus, which won't work in 'mirror mode'.

So that leads me to worry that the sensor isn't very good, it doesn't have full viewfinder coverage (is this because we are ment to prioritise live view? On a DSLR? Sure you can do some clever stuff for focusing when you engage the sensor) but has a list price of well over a grand. Not sure who it is for! Is it for Videotography?

Anyway, bring on the hands on reviews.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Any point releasing a 7d that is not just a rebadged 5d3?

[kalniel]

Yeah we need the lab tests too, but the sensor has the potential to be interesting - shouldn't be throwing away the kind of information that's useful - no-one really expects a 40MP APS-C sensor at this time, so having 'only' 20MP by combining the twin sites shouldn't be any compromise.

If lenses suit this, then it's a bonus to the AF system - true, it's designed with live view in mind but then canon need something as their live view really sucks compared to others now, and a whole generation of photographers prefer it. But coverage is one thing that's vastly improved with this sensor - before AF points hardly covered much of the sensor at all, now almost all the sensor can be used for AF, which you need if you want touch-screen-to-focus modes (which you need to try before passing comment on it - it's seriously nice for m4/3rds cameras, but then they have lightning fast live view AF these days).

It also has some nice features that were missing/dropped from the 60 - wifi, autofocus microadjust etc. etc. Granted, some of us can look back at Canon catching up with pity, but for those tied into the system this could be quite an improvement (albeit at a high initial price).

Any point releasing a 7d that is not just a rebadged 5d3?

The 7D has been out for ages mate

[TheAnimus]

Yeah we need the lab tests too, but the sensor has the potential to be interesting - shouldn't be throwing away the kind of information that's useful - no-one really expects a 40MP APS-C sensor at this time, so having 'only' 20MP by combining the twin sites shouldn't be any compromise.

My question is how did they filter the left/right without effecting the light gathering ability.

The fact the regular cross phase is raited for only -0.5ev doesn't really fill me with confidence.

[Bobster]

The 7D has been out for ages mate

7D2 is where crop is at! rumours looking interesting.. shall see if any is true!

[TheAnimus]

7D2 is where crop is at! rumours looking interesting.. shall see if any is true!

Would be interesting to see what they do. I think the 70D is very much for the video types.

The 7D2 has had speculation about all sorts even talk of 3D which could be rather cool, thou not sure how performance would suffer (assuming they just split the regions of the sensor). However, the 7D is a bag of crap, so they have plenty to work on, when your given a spanking buy entry level cameras that cost half to two thirds of the price tag.

The 70D I can see having some great features for those who do video. But for everyone else, it had better have upped the image quality, or else its just another camera for those who are stuck on canon mount.

[Bobster]

However, the 7D is a bag of crap, so they have plenty to work on, when your given a spanking buy entry level cameras that cost half to two thirds of the price tag.

didn't realise you'd owned one..

[kalniel]

My question is how did they filter the left/right without effecting the light gathering ability.

I would guess (and purely that - not my area of expertise) that you're not actually losing much light when in phase, the problem would be how much light you're gathering when out of phase, which would affect...

The fact the regular cross phase is raited for only -0.5ev doesn't really fill me with confidence.

That.

But then dedicated AF modules seem to be rather out of fashion these days - see SLT.

What gets me is they're still using a mirror and traditional AF module as well. If this system was any good then they could do away with that and go down the EVF route (oh I can hear the nashing of teeth already) - OK so EVFs still have problems, but the lack of mirror makes cameras faster and cheaper. Perhaps it's a test run for their mirrorless offering, which again, they're behind on.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

7D2 is where crop is at! rumours looking interesting.. shall see if any is true!

what rumours are they?

I just cant see where a 7d2 will fit in the canon line without affecting sales of other bodies

[TheAnimus]

didn't realise you'd owned one..

How long does one have to own one for?

It isn't as if its bad by a little bit. It's massively bad. For still photography. I completely accept that for Video this 70D on paper looks very interesting. Which is nice and everything, but why not make it mirror less, lighter and more obvious that the target market.

http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EOS_7D-vs-Pentax-K-30
The sensor is very poor. The price tag is very high.

Compare against the D7100
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EOS_7D-vs-Nikon-D7100
I mean its 20% cheaper. If someone is doing sports work, or similar where the extra fps is useful, but then with the shutter lag of the D7100 it isn't for such work anyway. But if you were doing such work, why would you choose the 7D over the incredibly outdated now K-5? It's half the price, vastly better image quality and the DR would really help, not to mention its got significantly less shutter lag.

I mean, how on earth do they justify those prices? Why on earth would anyone buy a 7D for photography? It is incredibly over priced, whilst having really crap quality for that money. It isn't small or portable, it isn't as if they had to compromise something! They just knew they could put out a very out of date sensor, and it would sell.

Video work aside, why would you recommend anyone buy a 7D?

[kalniel]

Don't shoot your argument in the foot by using snapsort - it's a terrible resource and worse than quoting wikipedia! You can make the valid point without it

[Funkstar]

I think the new sensor tech does sound very interesting, and I personally can't wait for the proper hands on tests. If it wasn't for the physical size of it, I would be very interested in it as a replacement for my 40D. (ignoring being able to afford it for the time being).

Something the size of the 7D, with this new sensor and a few more fps in stills mode (I would really like 10fps) and some more 5d3 like features would be exactly what I want. I'm not ready to move to FF, too many EF-S lenses that I don't want to give up.

[TheAnimus]

Don't shoot your argument in the foot by using snapsort - it's a terrible resource and worse than quoting wikipedia! You can make the valid point without it

I don't think its terrible at all, except for the headline score.

The breakdown by attribute is normally correct, and allows for simple comparisons.

Headline scores will always be inconsistent, because if your doing some kind of fast action stuff, the startup delay of say a D7100 will be a deal breaker on an otherwise brilliant bit of kit. It doesn't matter how good the sensor is, the delay is too high, its useless for that specific case.

However, it shows nicely that it is beaten in pretty much every important field.

[TheAnimus]

I think the new sensor tech does sound very interesting, and I personally can't wait for the proper hands on tests. If it wasn't for the physical size of it, I would be very interested in it as a replacement for my 40D. (ignoring being able to afford it for the time being).

Something the size of the 7D, with this new sensor and a few more fps in stills mode (I would really like 10fps) and some more 5d3 like features would be exactly what I want. I'm not ready to move to FF, too many EF-S lenses that I don't want to give up.

Do you do much video? I am guessing this sensor will be quite a way behind the current generation when it comes to SNR and dynamic range.

I still think, as I said above, it might be a brilliant mirror less camera, in an SLR body!

Is it ultimately you have some lenses you like and want the best out of them for still photo work? I gave serious thought to jumping to Nikon, when looking at it, I could happily sell most of my glass without loosing much (if any!) money.

[Funkstar]

Do you do much video? I am guessing this sensor will be quite a way behind the current generation when it comes to SNR and dynamic range.

I would do a lot more video if I could do it with my SLR rather than needing a compact/video camera as well.

As for image quality, I don't think I'm being overly optimistic, but I'm not going to write them off until the actual reviews are in. I think it was dpReview that were speculating that this development could have been why Canon have had to re-use the old 18mp sensor so many times while they get this working as they want. Pure idle speculation I know, and it still might be crap. But I do like the sound of what this could achieve.