Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts

[Robscure]

CBN? Christian Broadcasting Network, no doubt a very unbiased source

No, lol not Christian LOL....

I'm sure they are showing a peaceful rally in the video clip, and they dubbed over it with hate-speech because they can't find any real angry mobs to film.

Nice argument but it fails when you hear what they have to say, they're just filming them, not really much they can lie about when the people being filmed speak for themselves.

[iranu]

This was something that I brought up in the previous discussion. Basically how these courts don't listen to women. Thankfully in this case she had a male relative to help her. But my point still stands these courts are anti-women and adjudicate against them because their word is not held at the same value as men. They are NOT monitored and therefore are open to abuse. They should be banned until muslims can bring themselves into 21st century Britain. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/wo...h.html?_r=2&hp

Basically if you are a woman you get a very, very, rough deal.

[shadowmaster]

No, lol not Christian LOL....

I'm sure they are showing a peaceful rally in the video clip, and they dubbed over it with hate-speech because they can't find any real angry mobs to film.

Nice argument but it fails when you hear what they have to say, they're just filming them, not really much they can lie about when the people being filmed speak for themselves.

No, you have misunderstood what I was trying to imply. I'm not saying that those extremists dont exist, they do and what they say is terrible, no doubt. But that video only chose to focus on them, and not on what the majority of muslims are, moderate and peaceful. I think throughout that whole video they intervied one moderate muslim and that was like for 6 seconds. There was no attempt in giving a balanced view.

And this does not just apply to CBN, I could forward you quite a few Al Jazeera videos that make the 'west' look like a bunch of racist animals just make they took videos of people in Southern USA.

Anyway this a thread on Civil Sharia Law in the UK, so lets not get sidetracked. I do undersand the point you were trying to make, islamic extremist is a problem but tbh I dont see it ever taking over this country.

[Robscure]

No, you have misunderstood what I was trying to imply. I'm not saying that those extremists dont exist, they do and what they say is terrible, no doubt. But that video only chose to focus on them, and not on what the majority of muslims are, moderate and peaceful. I think throughout that whole video they intervied one moderate muslim and that was like for 6 seconds. There was no attempt in giving a balanced view.

And this does not just apply to CBN, I could forward you quite a few Al Jazeera videos that make the 'west' look like a bunch of racist animals just make they took videos of people in Southern USA.

Anyway this a thread on Civil Sharia Law in the UK, so lets not get sidetracked. I do undersand the point you were trying to make, islamic extremist is a problem but tbh I dont see it ever taking over this country.

Iran didn't either, when it was the Persian Empire, one of the greatest Empires of all time.

I've read the Qur'an and Hadith, and I see where this is going with Shariah being implemented, it's all just history being repeated...

However, I sincerely hope you are correct.

I can have optimism too, especially since more and more people are embracing science and are becoming more civilized... as evolution takes its course...

Thank you, everyone, for your input and opinions.

And yes, I understand the video has a bias, but it's not meant to show how Islam is evil, it's showing how there are Muslims seeking to take over, and guess what? They're succeeding in many places...

Or do you not know about the Islamic areas where non-Muslims simply don't go?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...n-Muslims.html

"No-Go Zones in France" http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2006...of-france.html

It's serious... Imagine if you were black, for example, and want to go some place, but you can't because there are Klu-Klux-Klan members everywhere, and they block entrance into their little "town" and nobody can enter unless they're white... And the police don't do anything to stop this... And it spreads and becomes a greater presence... slowly, but surely... That is a problem. That's exactly what's happening with this case...

Like I said, I hope you're right, I hope more "moderate" (read unknowledgable about the Qur'an) will appear, then they won't continue this trend.

[OilSheikh]

I myself am a Muslim and I dont approve of this.

[Robscure]

I myself am a Muslim and I dont approve of this.

First, thanks for your feedback, as it is good to show that Muslims are not "bad", and nobody should think that, they're just people with differing views. Unfortunately there aren't enough Muslims standing up and speaking out against these other types which make your lives harder than they need to be. And it's not plausible for them to do so, because people like you just live normal lives and don't visit rallies and protests lol... And I don't blame you, but it would be nice if there were a platform for progressive Muslims to take action.

It's horrible, yet true, that there's a great number of people who do agree with this sort of behavior.

I'm very close to several Muslims and they also disagree. However, they only believe in their religion and practice the basics, without getting into it too much, and following Sunnah, etc... As a result, they have a very moderate view of things, as opposed to the more traditional views which cause such conflicts in modern times. (Seeing as Shariah and even the Sunnah often conflict with anything that is not Shariah and Sunnah.)

[Blitzen]

I cry when I see how the 1001 different versions of God and all their man-made bye-laws force some human beings to kill other human beings.

All religion is a crock of crap.

There is no God, Jesus lived, he was a self-styled prophet, there were also a lot of other so-called Prophets.

Religion is mankind's worst affliction, appeals to the primitive and is more dangerous than AIDS & Cancer combined.

This is one of the Top Ten Best posts i have read here
(Even though some will hate it)

[Robscure]

This is one of the Top Ten Best posts i have read here
(Even though some will hate it)

Blasphemers... lol

[OilSheikh]

EDIT:

Just read through and the Sharia courts are ONLY for Muslims! And even then, it is upto a Muslim whther he wants to take the matter to a Sharia court.

Btw,

Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously operated under a precursor to the act.

[Perfectionist]

Should remove em both then, this is meant to be a country based on democracy and real justice not religious decrees. :/ It works in Turkey fine, it just seems to be when you get a small minority of like in England people they tend to radicalise more when there is so much difference between the rest of the community and so you get the state of affairs here - a bit like the idea that "Irish get more Irish the further away they are from Ireland " if you see what I mean.

[Robscure]

Should remove em both then, this is meant to be a country based on democracy and real justice not religious decrees. :/ It works in Turkey fine, it just seems to be when you get a small minority of like in England people they tend to radicalise more when there is so much difference between the rest of the community and so you get the state of affairs here - a bit like the idea that "Irish get more Irish the further away they are from Ireland " if you see what I mean.

Agreed.

A country should have one equal law for everyone.

It's not a matter of "only for Jews/Muslims, and optional" it's a matter of principle.

Separation of Religion from Politics = good, fair for everyone.

[Salazaar]

EDIT:

Just read through and the Sharia courts are ONLY for Muslims! And even then, it is upto a Muslim whther he wants to take the matter to a Sharia court.

Btw,

Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously operated under a precursor to the act.

That was my point earlier, all it is, is an arbitrator operating under a specific set of guidelines (sharia law). There is no way to force people to take part in such an arbitration, and though the decision is binding by agreement of both parties it doesn't take precedent over the law.

[Blitzen]

EDIT:

Just read through and the Sharia courts are ONLY for Muslims! And even then, it is upto a Muslim whther he wants to take the matter to a Sharia court.

Btw,

Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously operated under a precursor to the act.

Sorry but you cant even begin to equate these Judaism and Islam.
Judaism doesnt treat the women from their society with the same contempt as Muslims do.

[shadowmaster]

Sorry but you cant even begin to equate these Judaism and Islam.
Judaism doesnt treat the women from their society with the same contempt as Muslims do.

Do a google search on ultra Orthodox Jews, and you'll see how they treat women.

[Zadock]

While I don't share your zeal, I do agree that it's very sad when any life has to suffer. I'm a vegetarian and I don't like to hurt even little insects, let alone a human.

You should be a budhist sounds like you share some of their ideals already.

Blitzen, the same can be said for those religions that all find their origins in the same book (old testament) i.e. Islam, christianity etc. Woman is the underdog in all those religions, always has been. Pretty shocking when you consider the native religions on the UK (going back a way here) in which the woman was "the man" so to speak... women were revered under the old "pagan" relgions, mostly because of child birth (bringers of life) they had the same if not more rights than men

These days its more to do with culture how women are treated, in the west anyway.

[iranu]

That was my point earlier, all it is, is an arbitrator operating under a specific set of guidelines (sharia law). There is no way to force people to take part in such an arbitration, and though the decision is binding by agreement of both parties it doesn't take precedent over the law.

Actually you may think that but you underestimate grossly the effect of peer pressure and community mindsets. We know that women are forced into marriage in alot of these communities often taken to Pakistan and other countries to marry at young ages, 13 is not uncommon. If communities can force these people to do this and not complain until the relationship gets so bad their only recourse is an arbitration with a sharia court then you must see that these people are not going to go to the authorities. There have been many cases of women being shunned, outcast and threatened with physical violence by fathers, brothers, uncles with the worst cases leading to murder - I refuse to call them Honour killings. If this isn't a culture of coercion I don't know what is. It may be the minority but those are the people the law should protect and we shouldn't give into ethnic minorities just because that aspect is in their culture.

Here is a good example. It is absolutely shocking, but that goes to show you what goes on in some muslim communities and what's more they actually accept the abuse instead of bringing the teachers and imams to court to be prosecuted. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle5315021.ece

Several disclosed that they had asked social services to investigate complaints of physical abuse in madrassas made by pupils but that the victims' parents refused to press charges against the perpetrators either because they felt that physical abuse was normal practice or they feared being ostracised by their community.

No coercion there then.

They have the same problem as sharia courts, namely that it is not British born people who are being used as arbitrators and teachers, but those from parts of the muslim world that are backwards and have a culture that is not as morally advanced as we are. Secondly these courts and the madrassas are not regulated or monitored. This leaves them open to abuse. Until the muslim moderates get up off their collective behinds and decide that they aren't going to accept this medieval mindset then they are just as responsible for these crimes and injustices as the perpetrators are. They have the power to stop it so why don't they? Again it's a problem with religion and the fact that people bow their heads to religious leaders and are cowed by them.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"