Is the world any safer?

[Pete]

human beings are probably the most stupid thing on earth i cant understand why people have to oppress other people and why if one man is crazy then millions will do what he says and take his views i mean surely hitlers followers must have known they were doing something wrong surely? they cant all have been crazy?
im only 14 and so i probably dont understand this kinda thing to well but surely it wouldnt be too hard just to get along with each other we are after all the same people i wish everyone could just wipe the slate and start over the world would be a much better place indeed then.
and angus if al queda arnt going to target where its expected does that mean they arnt going to target england? because everyone is saying were next?
one more thing i wanna ask is in twenty years is the us still going to be the superpower of the world or will it be someone like china hopefully they will handle the world with a bit more care than the usa have?
Pete

[Angus]

human beings are probably the most stupid thing on earth i cant understand why people have to oppress other people and why if one man is crazy then millions will do what he says and take his views i mean surely hitlers followers must have known they were doing something wrong surely? they cant all have been crazy?
im only 14 and so i probably dont understand this kinda thing to well but surely it wouldnt be too hard just to get along with each other we are after all the same people i wish everyone could just wipe the slate and start over the world would be a much better place indeed then.
and angus if al queda arnt going to target where its expected does that mean they arnt going to target england? because everyone is saying were next?
one more thing i wanna ask is in twenty years is the us still going to be the superpower of the world or will it be someone like china hopefully they will handle the world with a bit more care than the usa have?
Pete

For starters, it's difficult to understand other people's behaviour in lots of scenarios. People argue, arguements sometimes lead to fights. Even our parents have argued with each other and some couples end up fighting. That's what happens in international politics.

However instead of two fists and a bread knife, political leaders have huge arsenals and the repurcussions can be devastating on a global level.

When I say Al Quaeda aren't going to target expected targets I mean on a local level rather than international level - their next target may well be England but rather than take a plane out of the sky at Gatwick (been done before, higher level of security surrounding airports) they may blow up and flood the Dartford tunnel.

To get a better idea of international politics keep an eye on the daily news, read a paper or two (but don't believe everything they say) and try to pick out stories that interest you and research them a little - try and ask yourself why something is happening; sounds a bit boring but with the internet you can often find the same stories from different view points and history often explains the present.

[Pete]

However instead of two fists and a bread knife, political leaders have huge arsenals and the repurcussions can be devastating on a global level.

When I say Al Quaeda aren't going to target expected targets I mean on a local level rather than international level - their next target may well be England but rather than take a plane out of the sky at Gatwick (been done before, higher level of security surrounding airports) they may blow up and flood the Dartford tunnel.

To get a better idea of international politics keep an eye on the daily news, read a paper or two (but don't believe everything they say) and try to pick out stories that interest you and research them a little - try and ask yourself why something is happening; sounds a bit boring but with the internet you can often find the same stories from different view points and history often explains the present.

First paragraph i quoted- so is the anwser i suppose not to stop people arguing as that is impossible but to disarm everyone and resolve it through words thats what kids are taught in the play ground and its the best view i think as long as both sides cooperate although i dont know how terrorist are going to cooperate or even believe youve disarmed....

second paragraph i quoted- that is a good point it would be easy to target a tunnel as there are no checks which is a git. we obviously need checks everywhere but that just goes against the supposidly western theory of freedom is best. i guess that is what terrorists are trying to cause as well as millions of deaths

third paragraph- i do read newspapers although i dont buy them i read ones on the train to school there is a free one called the metro which isnt very intellectual but has a few pages to do with world issues sometimes i get lucky and find a daily telegraph on one of the seats that only on some good days tho...

also one last thing...i remember at the start of the iraq war all the kids who were getting filmed in basra were saying yeh if i saw an american marine and i had a kalashnikov i would kill him,
well if u saw a suicide bomber about to blow someone up would you pick up an m16 and kill him? i think the anger against the west is much more than the anger if any we have against the middle east? is it?
Pete

[turkster]

also one last thing...i remember at the start of the iraq war all the kids who were getting filmed in basra were saying yeh if i saw an american marine and i had a kalashnikov i would kill him,
well if u saw a suicide bomber about to blow someone up would you pick up an m16 and kill him? i think the anger against the west is much more than the anger if any we have against the middle east? is it?

Good point but dont forget that war is much further removed from our life than to the lifes of most Iraqis.

People seem to make the assumption that we shouldnt expect any retaliation from Iraq/Muslim extremists. Why? If the US+UK etc drop bombs on Iraq why shouldnt they drop bombs on us. It's not terrorism, its WAR.
By attacking Iraq the West was giving Muslim extremist groups an excuse to attack the west. The problem is we are too removed from the realities of war to understand the kind of feelings generated by that kind of carnage. Westerners can carry on a normal life while their troops are over in IRaq fighting a War. Then we are all surprised when someone starts killing us.
Our assumption that we cannot be touched only heightens the desire of Muslim extremists to make some impact.

[Pete]

yeh your right so do you think that if some say christian or another common western associated religion group went and performed a serious terrorist attack in the middle east then it wouldnt be though of as bad as if it were here?
Pete

[turkster]

Well the problem is that religion is much more important in the majority of muslim countries than it is in the west. The whole problem is that a large proportion of muslims take their religion so seriously that they are willing to sacrifice a lot for it. That is not the case in the west where religion has become much more insignificant over the last few decades. The muslim extremists believe they are acting on behalf of the muslim population and seemingly a good proportion of the population of countries such as Afghanistan and Iraq support them.
As such they see themselves as allied with these countries in the fight against the west.

[Pete]

but this isnt all about religion is it?
saddam hussien good or bad wasnt really a religious man was he?
he didnt look it he just looked evil basically
also do u think libya is sincere in its apparent sudden help for the west sorta treaty or do u think it could be trying to gain something?
i think the thing im most worried about is if we go to war with north korea next theyve just reenacted there nuclear campaign.
Although china japan south korea and all the other countries that are pissed with north korea would help us, all it only takes is one push of the button and millions will die, probably in america first
Pete

[turkster]

I dont think its all about religion but it is definatly a big factor in the Middle East. After all religion is basically just a set of social values with a bit of ritual thrown in, you could say that capitalism is the religion of the West.

Certainly I think the trouble will come when America turns its nose towards countries that have large cold war financed arsenals. North Korea could end up being a nasty mess if the Americans dont realise that they are getting into water too deep to paddle in.

[Pete]

yeh it does scare me alot also i watched a program bout two months ago on north korea they are all told by the new that bush is a bad person the get a picture or video of him saying some stuff and then put a bubble saying i hate north korea they must die in his mouth. Or translate the video into korean in the way they want it. They are breeding west haters for what purpose? also they have this thing where by if u grandfather was a convicted spy or traitor u would be imprisoned and tortured for no reason this is so harsh i really cannot come to terms with why a goverment would do this?
Pete

[turkster]

Isn't he a bad person?
(sorry i'm being a bit mean but he does seem to like going around finding small countries to beat up)

News is never objective. Our news looks objective because it is prepared by people with similar views. That does not mean it is.
I didnt see the program i wouldnt doubt that news in North Korea is heavily modified to show the governments viewpoint.

As to Governments doing nasty things to people, thats almmost universal.
Just some flaw in Humans that makes them (us!!) want to hurt each other for no reason.

[fondie]

spain was well behind us in the pecking order and yet they have been attaacked first, probably just because nobody seen it coming. also seeing the effect it has had on the elections seems to show that they have achived their goal and spain will probably withdraw its support for the occupation of iraq. imo this can only be a good thing for spain, if they do this they may well save themselves from further attacks. unfortunately I belive we are too far into this to pull back now and to do so would leave the country in ruins, so I suppose even if we get hit 3 days before our election it wont make much difference in government policy no matter who wins.

there is a reason why a 'no negotiations with terrorists' policy is adopted by many countries. spain has just sent out the message that terrorism does work, choose your target and bend them to your wishes, it's as easy as that, i could have managed it! the action of spain alone has almost rendered this """war against terror"""(tm) lost already. maybe spain will not be attacked for the same reasons again, but they have left themselves open for anyone to have a go now, and if spain will crack so easily no doubt terrorists every will have new found hope that any power can be bent to their demands, a few dead citizens is all it takes.

obviously the terrorists commiting these acts feel aggrieved, i don't know the personal reasons for each one, but i understand that many attacks are a direct consequence of western powers rather over zealous meddling in foreign affairs. to comdemn the terrorists actions is very easy to do, but i certainly symapthise with their views. as has been said, as a nation we are far removed from the wars in which our troops are fighting and the consequences our government's foreign policy on other nations is, but just as i see so much generalisation of 'muslim nations/groups/etcetc' over here, from their point of view they are under attack from the UK and the US, which happens to include you and me, regular citizens, whether we agree with our own governments policy or not, they are our representatives.

bla bla

in my overly simple mind i see these solutions,

1. alter foreign policy so we don't piss so many people off in the future and live with option 3 for the short/medium term, time does heal all ills after all.

2. bend over to the terrorists, swallow the bitter pill of defeat and wait until someone with a parking ticket sees if he can't have a go at being a terrorist to get his fin waived

3. live with the consequences of out actions, through security measures we reduce the chances of attack and just deal with the consequences when they do occur

4. we wipe out everyone we've pissed off

overly simplified and most probably incomplete, but that's what you're getting from me all key in the number corrisponding to your answer on your keypads now..

[turkster]

4. we wipe out everyone we've pissed off

Hmm I think thats what the US thinks.

Would work too untill they piss off someone else!

[Pete]

i think the idea the US has had seems to be a good one that if you wipe out all the leaders of the terrorists Mr. bin laden and Mr.Hussein as such, no one will be there to command terrorism, of course someone is always going to replace those people but if you kill them too, would be terrorist leaders will get scared and not go for the head boy job in the terrorist cell..this would mean you dont have to kill the whole terrorist cell just the ones that are lying to there memebers and telling them to blow them selves up in the name of allah (i asked my prs (philosophy and religious studies) teacher, whos muslim if any where in the kerran it says you must blow yourself up in the name of the terrorism i didnt use those words exactly but along the lines of them, she said "no") it says the contrary apparently it says some stuff about helping others even if they are different to build a better world, this was last year so my memery is a bit hazy ill ask her again when we get back to school.
oh and i heard on the news last month that americans say theyll have osama within the year imo this isnt fast enough how many terrorist attacks could there be within the year? some of them wont be by al queda as well!
Pete

[turkster]

Of course the Korran does not tell you to go around blowing people up but neither does the Bible or most other religious texts. That does not mean that people dont kill in the name of religion. Christianity expressly encourages you to forgive your enemies not blow them up with airstrikes etc.

Seemingly any religious beliefs go out the window when when people start killing each other. It is hardly surprising after all it must be very hard to forgive your enemies when they are killing your friends and countrymen.
A lot of strife in the world is caused by religious hatred. It is not the fault of the religion itself but the people who practice it.

[Pete]

thats the idea i was missing ive been going around thinking that religion is responsible its actually the strange people who misunderstand the teachings
aha
Pete

[turkster]

The problem is its not just isolated people who interpret religion in strange ways, its whole societies.