Originally Posted by matty-hodgson
Do you think drugs has contributed to some of the issues you have had to deal with over Christmas?
For years I had the same attitude as you, but when I was diagnosed as bi-polar I had to face the fact that my social/habitual drug and alcohol use was a contributory factor in my condition,
I am all for heavier sentences for drug related crimes and its about time that drugs was completely stamped out of society,
"If you don't live for something, you die for nothing"
And how do you propose we do that?
Don't ask me I'm not the one of the people in power, I am just a everyday person who has seen the affects of drugs first hand and would love in an ideal world to see them gone.
"If you don't live for something, you die for nothing"
Drugs are horrible aren't they? All that pain relief they help with. All the euphoria they induce. All the social stimulus they provide. All the medicinal cures they provide. Awful.
The problem isn't drugs, it's society.
~'Armaments, universal debt, and planned obsolescence--those are the three pillars of Western prosperity'~ Aldous Huxley
Since when did heroin,crack or crystal meth ever contribute to society in any good way??
All I have ever seen is bad things whenever these drugs have been involved.
I am quite sure society would be a much better place without them.
"If you don't live for something, you die for nothing"
You are judging potentially thousands of different drugs on the basis of 3. Does that seem fair?
Alcohol causes far more trouble that those 3 drugs combined. Should we ban that too?
~'Armaments, universal debt, and planned obsolescence--those are the three pillars of Western prosperity'~ Aldous Huxley
You are quite right, how unfair of me not to mention the other thousands of drugs that wreck peoples lives, but if you wish me to do so i will.
And seeing as I am a recovering alcoholic, yes that should be banned also.
I am not having go at drugs that have a medicinal purpose, just the recreational variety.
Are you a recreational drug user???
"If you don't live for something, you die for nothing"
Yes. I partake in a couple of drugs for recreational purposes. It has yet to wreck my life, because I am responsible when using them. For example - I started smoking cannabis at the age of 13. Looking back, I think that was far too young to start taking any sort of recreational drugs. However, I recognised it's effects and accordingly when I started taking my Highers (not sure what level this is in England - we take these subjects in the last 2 years of high school) I decided to stop.
Smoking cannabis makes me lazy and demotivated. It also doesn't help my attention span much. So, given that the Higher material was a little more challenging than the Standard Grades (GCSE level I think) I decided it wasn't smart for me to be smoking anymore. I still indulged during holidays but not during term. I was smart and responsible about it. I don't see why I should have to suffer because other people can't do the same.
Educate youth about the dangers of drugs. I won't deny that they exist. But telling some scary stories about how people rip off their own testicles on whichever drug isn't the way to do it. Educate them the facts. The rest, no matter what we try, is up to them. If a teenager wants to try drugs, they will do it, no matter what the law says.
On the point about alcohol. My uncle (on my mother's side) and both my granddad and great granddad (on my dad's side) died of alcoholism. My uncle (on my dad's side) is a recovering alcoholic and my dad is well on his way to having a serious drinking problem. My parents divorced last year because of it So I have plenty of experience of that.
Have a look at the impact of the prohibition in America. Susbstance control will never work.
~'Armaments, universal debt, and planned obsolescence--those are the three pillars of Western prosperity'~ Aldous Huxley
I'm a bit confused?
What part of consuming a illegal and potentially lethal substance is responsible?
"If you don't live for something, you die for nothing"
What kind of reasoning is that?
Cars kill and maim thousands of people a year. What part of driving a car is responsible?
If you want a serious debate on this - please don't ignore a long post by quoting a small part and asking inane questions based on ridiculous logic.
~'Armaments, universal debt, and planned obsolescence--those are the three pillars of Western prosperity'~ Aldous Huxley
Ok, I'll bite
My personal arguement against legalising drugs is simple, many of them either have a longer effect than those currently legally available, or have a *much* higher level of physical addictiveness. As a general baseline, you either have to look at alchohol (max of 1 day incapacitated if you take a less than lethal dose), or cigarettes (generally addictive after a few hundred)
Now, I don't have the knowledge or experience to decide which drugs are safer judged on those terms, I know there are various "harm" indexes that are used but I've not seen a clear explantion of what those harm indexes judge to decide whether or not they're an appropriate tool, or instead a piece of propaganda.
More importantly, if you legalise drugs against the general view of the rest of the world, how do you ensure your supply? We can't exactly grow opium poppies easily, which means buying from criminal sources anyway and all you're doing is giving them a legitimate outlet from which to smuggle more easily.
Also, you have to consider why make a change? What *benefits* does opening up the laws provide? Is the funding spent on enforcement go to better uses, or does it simply get spent on more and more treatments for addicts, in much the same way as late night drinking or smoking consumes a large proportion of NHS funds? Could you tax it effectively to cover the costs when you're looking at plants people can easily grow themselves?
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This is bunny and friends. He is fed up waiting for everyone to help him out, and decided to help himself instead!
Yes that is true that cars kill and maim thousands of people every year.
The responsible part of driving a car is the fact that you have to sit a test to show that you are responsible enough to do so. To date there is no such test for recreational/habitual drug and alcohol use.
I personally think its a bad idea to give a drug user more responsibility in seeking
and attending drug user services.
I have meet people who attend said services only to get their prescription for methadone and subutex
(which are both used to ween users off drugs) so they can sell it to score drugs.
Providing more services in my eyes is only going to expand this side of the drugs trade, might as well pour petrol on the fire so to say.
Might as well hand out raw heroin in my opinion.
I am also glad to meet a person who is qualified enough to deem me or any questions I may have insane.
I do believe I read somewhere here on Hexus "The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask"
Who ever posted this please forgive me if I miss quoted.
Last edited by Consfearacy; 29-12-2010 at 02:19 PM. Reason: More to say.
"If you don't live for something, you die for nothing"
Yet these tests apparently do nothing - many thousands still die on the road every year.
Clearly far more harmful than recreational drug use. Should they be banned just because people misuse them? Of course not.
Let's have a look at what happens when drugs are decriminalised.I personally think its a bad idea to give a drug user more responsibility in seeking
and attending drug user services.
I have meet people who attend said services only to get their prescription for methadone and subutex
(which are both used to ween users off drugs) so they can sell it to score drugs.
Providing more services in my eyes is only going to expand this side of the drugs trade, might as well pour petrol on the fire so to say.
Might as well hand out raw heroin in my opinion.
Read my post again. I typed 'inane' not 'insane'.
I am also glad to meet a person who is qualified enough to deem me or any questions I may have insane.
I do believe I read somewhere here on Hexus "The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask"
Who ever posted this please forgive me if I miss quoted.
~'Armaments, universal debt, and planned obsolescence--those are the three pillars of Western prosperity'~ Aldous Huxley
The real issue with the current drugs policy is that it isn't based on any form of logic and has come about primarily as a consequence of historical precedence, knee-jerk reactions and political posturing. Thats before taking into account the fact that prohibition of easy to manufacture chemicals doesn't work and in many respects makes things far worse, e.g. Mexico.
To put some of this into perspective;
1. Nicotene is arguably the most addicitive and toxic substance consumed and yet is legal
2. Alcohol is more addictive and toxic than the majority of illegal substances, yet is legal and products can be advertised on TV
3. The Americans have been "chasing" drugs manufacturers all over the world; golden triangle, afghanistan etc. and have never managed to put a dent in production or distribution
4. Prohibition takes control out of the hands of government and places it in the hands of the criminal element, who are under no obligation to ensure that; what they manufacture doesn't contain other toxic materials, doesn't have a negative impact on the environment and that it isn't sold to individuals who clearly shouldn't be consuming it
5. Psychopharmachology is big business in the US and most of what is peddled for depression etc. has far worse side effects than illegal drugs
Now I'm not saying that taking drugs (legal or otherwise) is a good idea, as it can lead to all kinds of problems. However, until governments and the media wake up to the fact that most of what they spout is utter nonsense the situation will just carry on as it is, i.e. getting worse. Especially as the legal and policing system is heavily prejudiced against those from poor backgrounds / areas. It's hardly surprising that they react badly to the police etc. when they get hammered from pillar to post and yet "celebrities" get away with it left right and centre.
If Wisdom is the coordination of "knowledge and experience" and its deliberate use to improve well being then how come "Ignorance is bliss"
format (29-12-2010),matty-hodgson (29-12-2010)
Tbh... Drug Addict's should be tossed on an island and left to fend for themselves. Why should WE as tax payers have to be penalised for there health? Methadone etc.
Drug Addict's break into peoples home/mug folk only to feed their habit, why should we tolerate it? If we defended ourselves, most likely we would be given a criminal record :/, imo the justice system in UK is an absolute joke.
It really really needs to be reviewed to favour the victim.
Yet more reason to legalise drugs. Much in the same way that cigarettes are taxed to pay for their effects, drugs could be taxed to pay for their adverse affects.
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