What the green movement got wrong.

[chuckskull]

Absolutely fantastic documentary on C4 the other night.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/w...ng/4od#3136406

Have a watch.

Thrown in QT as it's going to cause a debate. Well I hope so any way

[aidanjt]

Just watching it now, looks good.

[peterb]

Thanks chuckskull - half way through it atm - fascinating - at last the green movement discovers pragmatism

[aidanjt]

Finished watching it. Quality stuff. Now if only everyone else got up to scratch with modern fission tech.

[Splash]

Did anyone else feel that the Chernobyl cancer rates were somewhat brushed under the carpet? Otherwise a good show, but it did rather seem to me that the "only the thyroid cancers were down to the explosion" attitude was a little blasé. Granted, it was old tech and in theory something like that could never happen again but still...



I mean, haven't these people played S.T.A.L.K.E.R?

[aidanjt]

Did anyone else feel that the Chernobyl cancer rates were somewhat brushed under the carpet? Otherwise a good show, but it did rather seem to me that the "only the thyroid cancers were down to the explosion" attitude was a little blasé.

That was kinda the point of the documentary though. Eco-warriors regularly ignored the cold hard facts.

Granted, it was old tech and in theory something like that could never happen again but still...

But it still can't happen again.

I mean, haven't these people played S.T.A.L.K.E.R?

Has anyone ever managed to play that game? :O

[SeriousSam]

I still find it amusing that all of the environmentalists involved in the program and debate are in denial about the fact that they do make decisions based on ideology. That plus the imagery and rhetoric they use instills fevour in their supporters which blinds them to the alternatives. Hence, the lack of consensus within the movement and the adversarial way they deal with those that question their opinions which they view as unassailable fact.

[chuckskull]

Was half expecting this thread to get flamey, seems we're all in agreement though. Has this ever happened before?

[SeriousSam]

Was half expecting this thread to get flamey, seems we're all in agreement though. Has this ever happened before?

It's much easier to agree that someone else has got it wrong

Ultimately we have got to find a way to take as much of the global politics out of the situation as possible. That may sound a bit contrary but half the issue currently is the lack of trust between nations as seen by the GM food aid to Africa debacle. Yes we have got to agree to a common set of ideals such as properly valuing the benefits our environment brings, curtailing excessive consumption and so forth. But how individual nations go about it should be up to them because as shown in the program different places can take advantage of different solutions. Of course countries can work together if it is in their common interest, but for example what would be the point in us investing vast amounts of money into solar energy? It would be far more sensible to let someone else get on with it and we find other solutions. Then as and when we both make significant advances we find ways to share the technology within a "ecoeconomic" system.

[iranu]

I always find this clip from Brian Cox interesting when debates about energy and green issues/politics etc crop up. Puts things into perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34VASgdmU7s

[SeriousSam]

The thing is even fusion and other forms of energy production rely on resources that we currently have no way of sustainably managing. We really have to get back to basics on this one and start from scratch taking into account that there will be limits on such factors as our population, land usage and what we actually use our resources for in the future. Of course step one is to face the biggest question in regards to our long term survival... "Do we stay or do we go?". The sun, which ultimately provides the energy for all life on earth will eventually die and in the process render our planet uninabitable. If we seriously want to be able go on then now is when we should be directing our efforts towards acheiving this goal, which would include not wasting our resources frivolously.