You hit the nail on the noggin there Knoxeh! The only way to educate some people is by force. Those people are few and far between and most 'neds' would learn in other ways before beating the living ****e out of them! The other point you made is true, when you were a kid you got a clip, you got a clip (not a thorough beating) when you were young and that is the point, people learn most about ethics and the like when they are kids.Originally Posted by Knoxville
Yeah, I more or less agree with you but I think the education system and society in general still needs to at least try and get the message across to all kids.
If some still don't take the hint then a swift belt across the ass or a clip round the ear might do the trick.. but who's going to do that when they know they'll probably get done for child abuse?!
cheers,
dave
why don't we teach them to use office ?
The Welsh have Hambones.
And I'm sorry if I offend anyone but the growing chav culture in this country is pissing me right off, it's not the clothes, the jewelry, or anything like that it is the attitude that some of them have, that I don't give a f**k' attitude to everyone else that has the poor misfortune of being on the same planet as them.
Beat them by all means after all it's not like you can communicate with them.
I have a simple answer tbh, If a kid of say under 20 gets in bother, say assaults somebody. Dont give em a fecking anti-social order or send em to jail, send them to the army, we have a lack of willing recruits, so why not teach these dumb charvs to have some discipline. At the very least we have some cannon foder...
ohhh yes I am a bastard.
HEXUS FOLDING TEAM It's EASY
we knew that already
Sadly G4Z the army is nothing like the diciplinarian organisation it used to be. Too many politicians messing with it and the 'I know my rights' attitude has permeated it's ranks to a scary degree. Quite frankly raising ones voice at a junior rank can have repercussions on the senior who did the voice raising. One of the reasons I left and why many of my colleagues left too.
I may sound a bit of a dinosaur to some but the strict enforcement of dicipline had it's reasons. It enabled individuals to function reasonably well in extremely unreasonable conditions. One of the reasons for example that troops are often used in disaster recovery situations. Less prone to disaster shock than civilian counterparts. That strength of mind is being eroded.
But sending chavs to the army simply gives a professional body (which it still is despite my moanings) a bunch of useless bodies that don't want to be there. Our effectiveness is largely down to the fact that our armed forces are a voluntary organisation. The mindset of a volunteer is much more desirable than a pressed individual with a strong grasp on how to use the 'rights' issue to sling a spanner in the works at any given opportunity. I wouldn't put some poor git in a fire trench with some pressed chav. It would be risking his/her life (not bothered about said chav here)
No, you wanna be a bastard and make good use of them? Press them into mine clearing operations in Angola and Bosnia. That would hold their attention
"You want loyalty? ......get a dog!"
hmm.. how about just forcing them through some military training ? not ever having them anywhere NEAR the actual army. Until they can hack the rules in the army for like 3 months.
Obviously after then it is up to them if they fancy joining the real army... If they screw up again in civ life? then back in the training.. FROM SCRATCH. They will soon see that messing about it pointless.
On another note. I would probably NEVER sign up for the army, but i have always said a watered down conscriptive version for teenagers would do this country unbelievable good. Say you are 17 and one summer you have to spend a month working and training out of a barracks. Sure its something some might not want to do. But the country might have a lot less fat people and a more professional attitute.
mind you.. I don't matter I think vegetarians should be sent to war.. cheaper to feed the troops....
[edit]
might I add... mwahhahahah.
That was true in France until they got rid of conscription recently it certainly made alot of young people grow up quick and would I think do alot of good to alot of people in this country as well.
But there were downfalls to forcing people to do military service I liked the military (albeit weekend bashers) but some people just plain hated it from the off to the extent they would injure themselves to get out which is not good (we mixed alot with regulars) so whereas 80% may find the experience good theres 20% which may then have such a bad experience that all sorts of disasters can occur ranging from self injury to suicide.
I alwasy remember with fondness being the nasty Russkies at Purbright during a small exercise and we ambushed a regular squad and the refs gave us the winWe had to hide the rest of the weekend because they were looking for us afterwards.
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If you want a legal framework in which to operate then sending offenders to the MCTC (Military Corrective Training Centre) Colchester would be a good move. The draconian organisation of the 'old' army is still alive and healthy there. I think at the last count they had something like a 7% re-offender rate. Former inmates really don't want to risk going back.
The onus isn't on detention so much but on training. Many soldiers who are sent there return to unit well qualified and an asset to their regiment. However the regime at 'Colly' is strict in the extreme. No infringement of the rules is tolerated.
Might be a viable option. A model to be expanded upon. I'm sure the Provost staff would be only too pleased to take our chavs under their wing and show them a different way
"You want loyalty? ......get a dog!"
No - i dont think thats right at all. It IS a parents duty to tech their kids right and wrong, good and bad, how society expects them to behave. It always has been and it always will be. It is a schools duty to teach them maths english science. Teachers have already been forced to become cousellors and religious advisors thanks to stupid gvmt legislation. They should not be expected to replace a childs parents totally!
The parents that shirk their responsibility in this area, are the parents that don't bother making sure their kids go to school (so taching them in school wont work). So these kids just fall out opf the loop, it is not the schools job to teach them how to be humans, and the parents dont bother. = Chavs/Neds.
The situation needs to be addressed by taking it to the parents. Punish them for not teaching them right or wrong, punish them for not sending their kids to school. If you poke eachother and bring a child into the world it is your duty to enable the child to function in its environment.
Butuz
I'm still leaning towards the mine clearing option
"You want loyalty? ......get a dog!"
well... if you want to get totally draconian. The victorian poor houses are an option !
The inmates were made to do insane repetitive tasks that had NO function. Like grind up bones to dust. Or stand in a solitary room turning a handle on a box. If they were heard to stop turning it without permission they got a good 'ol slap.
BUT really.. i think the military option is better. In germany u get the choice of military or civil service for a year. My mate had to run a shop inside a sheltered old folks home. And another had "military" when he ran the bar on an airforce base.... Still good work experience.
I know its not the schools responsibility to do it but parents obviously aren't doing it properly in alot of cases so someone has either got to make them do it (a difficult job to say the least) or the concept of right and wrong and morals have gotta be taught at an early age in schools.No - i dont think thats right at all. It IS a parents duty to tech their kids right and wrong, good and bad, how society expects them to behave. It always has been and it always will be. It is a schools duty to teach them maths english science. Teachers have already been forced to become cousellors and religious advisors thanks to stupid gvmt legislation. They should not be expected to replace a childs parents totally!
The parents that shirk their responsibility in this area, are the parents that don't bother making sure their kids go to school (so taching them in school wont work). So these kids just fall out opf the loop, it is not the schools job to teach them how to be humans, and the parents dont bother. = Chavs/Neds.
The situation needs to be addressed by taking it to the parents. Punish them for not teaching them right or wrong, punish them for not sending their kids to school. If you poke eachother and bring a child into the world it is your duty to enable the child to function in its environment.
Butuz
Agree 100% - National service for the lot of emI have a simple answer tbh, If a kid of say under 20 gets in bother, say assaults somebody. Dont give em a fecking anti-social order or send em to jail, send them to the army, we have a lack of willing recruits, so why not teach these dumb charvs to have some discipline. At the very least we have some cannon foder...
ohhh yes I am a bastard.
But of course that's never gonna happen, but they need to get alot tougher - soon. Its getting stupid the amount of yobs getting away with putting ppl in hospital.
Ive had several friends beaten senseless by ppl out for a fight, and they
weren't even pissed.
edit* It makes my bl00d boil! .. Grrr
Last edited by MasterFlash; 30-06-2004 at 12:42 PM.
Luckily for us we have articles like this to keep us informed of what Chavs are like and how they act:
http://www.comfortmind.5u.com/chavs.html
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