Women in Germany loose benefits if they wont work as prostitute!

[Zathras]

Quite simply because what is acceptable and obvious for one person is not for another. I'm merely saying one cannot have an all-encompassing rule forcing loss of benefits because cases like these will come up. I'm sure we could have a debate between members here about what would be an acceptable job to do and what wouldn't. It's not clear-cut at all. Let's take Rave's example of working in Ann Summers. Now you may not have any qualms about working in Ann Summers but I bet you know people who would have. Where'd you stand on this?

[Galant]

Selling lingerie or other products is not the same as selling oneself or promoting such trade. Or would you disagree?

[Zathras]

Of course it's not. That's not the point I'm trying to make. Talking hypotetically, working as a government assassin would be completely different from working as a prostitute, but people could have a moral issue with doing both. Do you know people or could you understand people who may have a strong moral issue with working in a place like Ann Summers selling their various wares, some of which are a bit more invasive than lingerie?

[Galant]

I'm not talking hypothetically, I'm suggesting that you can draw the line right there, regardless of various other issues where people might find offence. The issue isn't keeping everyone happy in every last issue, it's about taking against against the greater evils in soceity, recognised by the vast majority of soceity and around the world.

Selling oneself, forcing others to do so, or working in a job which directly promotes such trade is wrong. There's your line.

[nichomach]

Except that it's a line that is not the same for everyone; some might consider it perfectly morally acceptable to freely undertake work as a prostitute, or to undertake work which facilitates it (the old line about being piano player in a brothel leaps to mind). Forcing someone to is clearly a different issue, and the same person might well hold that to be morally wrong. You have one view Galant, but don't assume that it's a view shared by the whole world. In that sense, Zathras' point about what is morally acceptable to different people being different is very well made.

[Galant]

Except I said, "recognised by the vast majority of soceity and around the world." A point I think you'd agree with.

[Rave]

Well clearly not, since Germany has legalised prostitution. Do you think that such a measure would have been allowed to get through their parliament if the vast majority of their citizens were opposed to prostitution in any form? I doubt it.

[Galant]

It's possible. I wonder what would happen in Britain if a referendum was taken on the issue. Or just Liverpool.

Having said that, I take it then that you don't disagree with my point.

[nichomach]

In fact, in Germany, every town has a free vote on whether to allow licensed brothels; it's legal, and there IS a referendum taken before any licenses are granted. And I rather suspect that were a similar referendum to be taken in towns in the UK, some would and some wouldn't allow it. You're assuming that everyone, or at least the vast majority, agrees with you, Galant, and that's an unproven assumption. I don't "approve" of prostitution, necessarily, but given a choice between streets made unsafe and unpleasant by kerb crawlers seeking people plying a trade which has existed forever, regardless of legality, or licensed premises, subject to inspection and regulation, then I know what I'd choose. And I don't assume that everyone in the whole world shares my morality either.

[Rave]

Having said that, I take it then that you don't disagree with my point.

Well, your point seems to be that everyone disapproves of prostitution? I personally don't disapprove of it, subject to certain provisos.

I do of course agree that nobody should be compelled to work as a prostitute-or as in this case, face financial sanctions if they fail to do so. The point is that some people are prepared to do a certain job whereas others are not. I also don't think that a Jewish or Muslim person should lose benefits if they refuse a job in a non-kosher/ non-halal butcher. Ultimately you can't make laws that cater for every single eventuality that could possibly arise; sometimes a little common sense must be applied.

[malfunction]

recognised by the vast majority of soceity and around the world

Just to ram the point home on this one:

If the vast majority of the world thought it was so very wrong then it would be a much rarer thing than it is - if you were inclined to do so I imagine you could quite easily find a prostitute in any part of the country - probably any part of the world. The fact that prostitutes manage to ply their trade most of the time and aren't spending the rest of their lives imprisoned tends to support the idea that even though lots of people don't like the idea it's hardly the worse thing in society.

[Galant]

If it's voted in by citizens, then on that level I'd be happy. Were it just declared top down I'd have a problem.

[joshwa]

In Liverpool - it's still in discussion, and there's a majority of people (even officials) who think it's a very bad idea - so we'll just have to wait and see, but the latest I heard on it is that it's unlikely to happen...

[RVF500]

I thought that it had gone through in Liverpool and now they are seeking a change of law from parliament to allow them to proceed. Or has the media reported it wrongly?

[Rave]

This week's Private Eye exposes this story as being, not to put too fine a point on it, made up. The woman in question actually was interviewed for a job as a barmaid in what turned out to be a brothel (CBA to read the whole thread back, but I think someone mentioned that before). The job centre hadn't realised, and when the woman twigged she made her excuses and left, benefits completely unaffected.

So, panic over.

Rich :¬)

[Swafe]

it's crazy - they're treating women like dog poop - absolutlely shocking that it has come to this.

What about treating men like dog poop too ? What if a guy gets offered a job as an escort? Isnt it escentially the same thing