Police state?

[G4Z]

Came across a couple of stories a week back whilst at work.

The first involved no2id.net as a mate and I were planning to take a wander up to the Home office roadshow in the metrocentre to join the no2id guys, unfortunately we didnt have details of the time and figured by the time we finished work it would all be over.

Next day found out about This

Also came across a couple of stories,This and This .


What the hell is going on here? has the police state that has been discussed for so long arrived?

[Taz]

You are okay as long as you agree with General Blair.

[TeePee]

While I don't particularly like any of these instances, when viewed in a different way, they aren't exactly extreme.

The ID card roadshow thing has paid the metro centre to be there and to distribute their information. The no2id people are there to disrupt it. If the IDcard people complained, as customers, to the metrocentre management, it's up to the management to decide if the no2id people can stay (this being private property) The police simply assisted with that, they didn't make the decision, that was simply metro centre staff protecting their customers.

The T-Shirt doesn't bother me, but the word 'Bollocks' could be considered vulgar.

As for the guy with the backpack, three weeks after the failed tube bombings, I'd be concerned if they weren't stopping and searching suspicious people with backpacks who went to the tubes. After stopping him, maybe some of the electronic gear was suspicious, but I think more likely the police assumed (perhaps rightly?) that theis guy was one of the large number of people who went on the tube that day trying to look suspicious with the intention of maliciously causing disruption. (The public niusance suggestion supports this.)

[specofdust]

Well, call my calous, but I don't see that the terrorist thing was that big a deal. Untill people start dying on a weekly basis, I dont want any extra special laws, or police mandates being carried out. 50 people died, in the first terrorist attack in years, its not exactly the end of the world.

Let people get on with their lives, and let everything get back to the way it was before.

[iranu]

Only when it's too late will; we realise what we have lost in this country. The Terrorist Act basically gives police cart blanche to arrest anyone on suspicion regardless. Look at that 87 year old who was thrown out of the Labour Party conference hall. When he tried to get back in with his pass the police arrested him using the Terrorism act. We are now being terrorised by the police in this country.

Where once the local bobby was given powers to protect us, the militarised police now only carry out the duties of silencing those that are against their paymasters.

Policing has become politicised and the interests of the public have been dropped in the gutter. This is why policemen and women are no longer approachable. They have no common sense, judgement or sense of humour these days, they just cite some rule or regulation and cart you off.

The guy with the backpack was obviously not a terrorist and anyone with 2 brain cells would have been able to establish this within 5 minutes, instead the police bring the sledgehammer of the law down on him. Really creates a good rappour withtthe public.

[specofdust]

Where once the local bobby was given powers to protect us, the militarised police now only carry out the duties of silencing those that are against their paymasters.

That's pretty sensatonalist, and...frankly sounds dumb.

Policing has become politicised and the interests of the public have been dropped in the gutter. This is why policemen and women are no longer approachable. They have no common sense, judgement or sense of humour these days, they just cite some rule or regulation and cart you off.

The guy with the backpack was obviously not a terrorist and anyone with 2 brain cells would have been able to establish this within 5 minutes, instead the police bring the sledgehammer of the law down on him. Really creates a good rappour withtthe public.

I'm pretty sure you can't generalise an entire collection of police forces with your description, however, the police have become politicised, I'll agree with that.

The police went way OTT though, and thats what needs to be kept in check.

[iranu]

well I can cetainly say that the police now wear stab resistant vests and have their side armed battons and other paraphernalia dangling from their belts when they walk into Tescos to buy a sarnie. The way in which they conduct themselves amongst the general public is certainly aggressive and they are much less approachable. Certainly as far as the Met and the Thames Valley are concerned.

How do I know this well the old man used to be a copper. He used to
train coppers at Hendon and was considered one of the top bods for doing it. Things have changed massively in the last 10-15 years. The emphasis is much more on the policeman using a more aggresive technique when dealing with the public regardless of circumstance whereas it used to be a more passive response that allowed flexibility in how you deal with the situation. I'll dig out a diagram that shows this later from a police training manual.

As for silencing those who are against their paymasters all you have to do is read the "bollocks to Blair" article. You have also said yourself that the police are politicised so if thats not being one sided and non impartial then I don't know what is.

Basically this government says jump to Sir Iain Blair and he says how high. Until we have police commisioners elected by the public and held accountable (like they do in the USA) we will continue down a route where you will not be able to trust a copper for fear of being wrongly arrested or protest against the government without being smashed over the head with a truncheon.

Witness the countryside alliance march against the foxhunting ban in London which resulted in people being detained against their will without arrest even though they were nothing to do with the protest and people being beaten sensless by police which iirc has resulted in the prosecution of police officers all because of this governments lack of tolerance to peaceful protest.

I was brought up to respect a policeman knowing full well that if you were in trouble or needed help, you could approach the bobby and expect to get help. Nowadays your'e just a waste of time to them.

The police are a service to the general public and no-one else, that is why we ALLOW them the powers they have through parliament knowing full well that they are here to protect us. I believe that the "ethos" of public service has been lost and as such do not trust the individuals I have met that are in the service. I wish it was different.

[iranu]

^ not unless we suffer a hurricane Katrina incident where the man power would be needed. I much admire them too but heaven forbid them becoming police. shudder...

[specofdust]

Martial law. Hmm, it might happen, given a bad enough terrorist occurence, or a large natural disaster.

People don't care these days, 50 people die in the first terrorist attack in years and everyones rushing to totaly destroy our rights and way of life in order that it must never ever ever happen again. It's stupid, reactionary, and the media are doing a good job of making peolpe think that its acceptable for our rights to be forfitted for "security" that the government couldn't even provide if they really wanted to.

[TeePee]

Gone are the days when police were safe patrolling the streets with only a truncheon concealed in a modified pocket. Maybe you should blame society?

This is the same society where a few weeks after these terror attacks people dressed in clothing similar to backpack guy stand up in the middle of a tube journey and scream 'Allah Akbar' at the top of their voices just to amuse themselves at the reactions of other passengers. I have no problem with police qustioning them for a few hours.

The world has changed since your father was a copper, but they are to be commended, that the majority of coppers will still go out of their way to be helpful and to assist the public.

Of course, the system isn't perfect, and you could easily have confused a Community Support Traffic Warden for a copper, and they tend to go out of their way to be utterly useless.

[Big RICHARD]

This is the same society where a few weeks after these terror attacks people dressed in clothing similar to backpack guy stand up in the middle of a tube journey and scream 'Allah Akbar' at the top of their voices just to amuse themselves at the reactions of other passengers.

And that, my friends is terrorism by the very definition of the word.

[oralpain]

...Maybe you should blame society?

This is the same society where a few weeks after these terror attacks people dressed in clothing similar to backpack guy stand up in the middle of a tube journey and scream 'Allah Akbar' at the top of their voices just to amuse themselves at the reactions of other passengers. I have no problem with police qustioning them for a few hours.

Maybe you should blame yourself? Aren't you part of the society of which you speak?

Detaining someone just for saying "God is the greatest" sounds like a good idea to you?

Personally, I think anyone who is seriously bothered by such a plainly harmless act is the one with the problem. People freak out over nothing and then go about ignoring or failing to recognize real danger right up to the second it kills them.

[specofdust]

Let's not even get started on the obvious hypocricy involved by nation states when discussing terrorism. Anti-Terrorist agencies can't arrest governments afterall, thats just not the done thing.

[TeePee]

Maybe you should blame yourself? Aren't you part of the society of which you speak?

Detaining someone just for saying "God is the greatest" sounds like a good idea to you?

Personally, I think anyone who is seriously bothered by such a plainly harmless act is the one with the problem. People freak out over nothing and then go about ignoring or failing to recognize real danger right up to the second it kills them.

I am not a part of this society.

Detaining somone who goes out of their way to terrorize others for their own sadistic pleasure sounds like a fantastic idea.

I think people who think that such behaviour is acceptable are part of the problem. People do freak out about the strangest things, and ignore real danger. Most people are stupid.

[Taz]

I, again, agree with Pyle. Bush and Blair scared the US and the UK into believing that we were under an imminent threat from Saddam Hussein's alleged WMD. Even now Bush ties Iraq with Al Qaeda with 9/11. By the definition of the word 'terrorist', Bush and Blair are terrorists.

It's also worth noting that the so-called ogres of the world, bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were created and supported by US administrations.

Here's another definition of terrorism: being rounded up and imprisoned indefinitely, with no evidence and no access to a lawyer.

[Byatt]

I'll dig out a diagram that shows this later from a police training manual.

Have you managed to find this?