£2500 of faulty parts in one scan order.

[callumturner]

I ordered two i7 machines from scan in june.

After weeks of problems (buzzing, EMI, BSOD, etc etc) I eventually got an RMA and returned one machine.
This was found to be 99% faulty, with everything but the cpu (which still gives off EMI-electro magnetic interference) and the HDD being broken.

If this wasnt enough Scan reps were rude on the phone and very unhelpful with emails, sending me in circles and not reading my replys fully and forcing me to repeat everything in consecutive emails.

The icing on the cake was today when the HDD in the second machine (also with EMI problems too) Died.
Im not even going to bother sending it back because of the headaches involved in the RMA process.

Dont get me wrong, I used to love scan. I have bought 4 machines from scan now and the first two, despite a few problems, were great and lasted me and my brother longer than was expected.

But over 2.5ks worth of faulty gear in one order is a disgrace. half the stock i ordered in the first place was incorrectly specc'ed in the website(or not atall) or it said it was in stock when it wasnt.

Ontop of all that to date, I have had no apology and offered no compensation for my time being wasted or stress caused. not to mention the £60 it cost for me to RMA the items.

As I say im not going to do anything but I thought other people deserve to know what kind of potential treatment to expect from scan now.

good luck

callum

[callumturner]

I am a professional sound engineer. I record high quality audio and make it better. If my pc is giving off EMI this isnt just affecting my pc, headfones, monitor etc. this is affecting all the equipment in my studio and all the audio i record is tainted with it.

as for sorting it out, maybe i ddnt make it clear in my origional post but I did RMA the first machine, which was found to be near enough 100% faulty. This was all replaced apart from the CPU and HDD which still cause slight EMI. not as much as it was mostly the PSU causing it, but still enough EMI for the machine to be useless for my buisness at the moment.

now the other machine is starting to fail after only 6 months use. Its only the HDD so far but for £40 that it cost id rather just goto another company. oh yes and I had to RMA the ram from this machine too along with the whole other machine.

[PeteG@Scan]

Hello,

I ordered two i7 machines from scan in june.

We're these machines parts chosen by yourself or complete systems bourght from us designed for the use in question?

I design, stress test and pretty much our audio systems into the ground before they are made available to the public and I can confidently say out of the hundread's sold this year alone I've never had a compaint about EMI issues from components.

If you purchased a complete system from us can you give give me the invoice number so I can look into it please. If not can you give me a list of key parts in the systems your having this issue with.

After weeks of problems (buzzing, EMI, BSOD, etc etc) I eventually got an RMA and returned one machine.
This was found to be 99% faulty, with everything but the cpu (which still gives off EMI-electro magnetic interference) and the HDD being broken.

I've never heard of a CPU causing interference outside of the case although it is possible in theroy. It's more prone to causing on board noise which is then amplified across the buss signal and replicated by the sound output stage (soundcard). The's normally in most cases work arounds for this common problem but they differ from board to board. These are applied before the shipping of complete systems from Scan so if they have been missed on your 3XS system I will look into a resolve for you.

If this wasnt enough Scan reps were rude on the phone and very unhelpful with emails, sending me in circles and not reading my replys fully and forcing me to repeat everything in consecutive emails.

If you contact us via our email system it is logged via OLQ and collated in our system. If your moved from one department to another they may ask you to reliterate to clear up some points but a complete repeat of a convosation shouldn't be required. If it was a complete system it should have been delt with by myself, if it was parts then being forced to repeat points shouldn't of happened and we can review what went wrong there once you let us know the details of the order.

The icing on the cake was today when the HDD in the second machine (also with EMI problems too) Died.
Im not even going to bother sending it back because of the headaches involved in the RMA process.

I'm finding it hard to belive that all the components have emi issues that your recording set up is picking up on. I think the maybe a central unsuitable component that shouldn't be in the system but without a list i'm unsure what. Can I ask what you have that is this sensitive to the parts in question?

Ontop of all that to date, I have had no apology and offered no compensation for my time being wasted or stress caused. not to mention the £60 it cost for me to RMA the items.

If items are faulty in the first 28 days we collect at our cost. Did it take more than 28 days to discover the EMI issue?

Pete.

[wesleyaldred]

Please note none of your purchases were from our 3XS department and were purchases for components to be built by yourself.

Please accept my apologies for the problems you encountered in regards to your return. I note the comments above and apologise for the fact certain questions were overlooked at points, however, in defence of my staff I have to say looking through the history of communications from yourself it is quite confusing and at points very hard to keep up for example of one day there are 4 emails from yourself all asking different questions and all sent within 3 minutes of each other and there are more examples of the same, had i been dealing with this myself i'm pretty certain I would have missed some of your questions at points.

As you state you are still encountering EMI problems, even though none of these purchases were ever made as a 3XS configured system, I will arrange for our 3XS support engineer to contact you with hopefully some solutions to your EMI problems, he is very experienced in the audio side of things.

Wesley Aldred
Returns Manager

[PeteG@Scan]

Hi Callum,

Right Wesley has passed me over your OLQ to check the parts list to look for a resolve.

As you noted in your email that you had another machine in the past that had a simuler issue, this isn't that uncommon and the are normally small work arounds for these things.

You have a UD5 on the order and yes the is a known electrical pick up issue. It only tends to manifest itself when a high end audio setup is attached to the board through as it it takes an unballanced connection somewhere in the setup to cause this issue (not something 90% of our customers tend to see). In fact this is the reason I refused to move to the UD5 on the audio systems we do until we were forced to by public request after the UD4 was killed off from the range.

The's a fix for it through which will resolve it in most cases.

The noise issue is triggered by constant manuplation of the voltage by bios. This comes down to power saving features on the board being active.

if you go into bios and disable:

C1E <<< most important
EIST
SpeedStep
Anything labled "Spread Spectum"

and indeed any other power saving features you can spot (sorry, I don't have a board in front of me right now, but those should cover it (let me know if not, i'll find a rig to check)) then the noise will clear up in the vast majority of cases.

If that doesn't clean it completly then a ground lift box for the sound card may help remove whats left on the singal chain, but it's rare anyone has to go this far to resolve the issue.

Let me know if that removes the EMI issue for you, and if not I'll check for further solutions but that should cure it.

Pete.

[callumturner]

I appricciate your apology and help.

But to be honest its 6 months too late and I still feel like iv been ripped off and used and even a little abused.

Its funny how when you ask for help personally you are treated badly or not atall. But as soon as you go public you have people racing around at your feet.

These machines were desighned and built by myself.

however, in defence of my staff I have to say looking through the history of communications from yourself it is quite confusing and at points very hard to keep up for example of one day there are 4 emails from yourself all asking different questions and all sent within 3 minutes of each other and there are more examples of the same, had i been dealing with this myself i'm pretty certain I would have missed some of your questions at points.

The reason I sent questions in seperate e-mails was that it seems that if you ask more than one question per email they get ignored. I then split a 3 question email into 3 emails. hoping to get an answer for each. These were still ignored.

If you say you would ignore me too wesley then thats just a testement to the bad service I have experienced.

To make it clear to everyone Il list the faults I listed in the RMA:

GPU: GTX260: Blank screen at startup in high resolutions
PSU: corsair 750w: Massive EMI
MOBO: UD5: Audible buzzing. botched bios. EMI from onboard sound.
RAM: 6GB kit: 1 stick tested faulty in memtest. had to return whole 6gb kit.
CPU: i7 : NOT replaced and still giving off EMI.
HDD: maxtor 500gb: just had total random failure.29/09/09

lucky I bought the case from amazon or that would have probably fell to bits too!
(sory that was a joke, i dont mean to be obnoxious

As for your fix steve, thanks, and yes the first thing I done was turn off the UD5 geared bios features in question as they were screwing with everything and obviously not working properly. Independant forums confirmed this.

There is no spread spectrum options in bios. I fixed most of the noise by muting system beep in the other machine (with evga board). This hasnt fixed EMI, only muted it from giving you a headache when using headphones. Iv tryed your other suggestions also to no avail

The point im trying to make here is even your returns manager approves of the way I was treated ie. staff ignoring questions in emails etc

There is no compensation offered for months of stress, wasted money and time.

The first time I ordered with scan in 2001, when a part was found to be out of stock, I was offered an alternative for free...and the same again in 2004.

I see your policys have changed, and NOT I must say in the coustomers favour!

What im trying to do here is make people aware of how scan has changed over the years as it has grown.

You confirmed yourself, my whole machine was faulty. I was offered nothing but a replacement and had to fight for it along the way. This is bad buisnes practice as its obvious you dont value your long term coustomers (or any for that case)

And now it has came to light that your managers encourage this behaviour.

The reason people come to places like scan is because they want to avoid being ripped off by big corporate stores like PC WORLD etc. SCAN used to be friendly, coustomer orientated. Beginners and experts would come to them and order goods and enjoy good service and relations.

This is no longer the case as scan has (to my eyes) adopted the same behavior as the big corporate companys.

Who cares if its not in the small print or the contract. Its the right thing to do to be nice and help people. And thats what I had came to expect from scan. Im Very sory to hear its not the case anymore.

C

[wesleyaldred]

Callum,

I stated had I been dealing with the OLQ, I would probably have missed the odd question as there were many and we are all human, it happens.

Why would you interpret that to read "you would ignore me too wesley" and that "your managers encourage this behaviour"

I understand your frustrations but I find it very hard to accept my comment being twisted in such a grossly over exaggerated way.

In your OLQ you even at one point sent the following email,

"excellent. perfect, just what I was looking for.

all questions answered.

thanks alot mate. this one is getting saved for refrence "

I note also this OLQ was closed on the 3rd July 2009, with no further contact from yourself since.

Do you have a particular example of Scan being deliberately unhelpful or impolite in any of our communcation with yourself because I certainly cannot find one.

[callumturner]

Why would you interpret that to read "you would ignore me too wesley" and that "your managers encourage this behaviour"

I would interpret that because thats what it says:

had i been dealing with this myself i'm pretty certain I would have missed some of your questions

Im twisting your words?

Anyone who reads this correspondance fully can see that its the other way round.

I really dont appriciate this aggressive/defensive behavior. Can we just have a constructive conversation here please?

Im sory if you take offence to my honest observations but maybe you shouldnt be dealing with coustomers if you cant hold your temper and make honest judgements.

Im not getting into an argument with you. I want to hear some positive feedback from scan NOT excuses and petty jabs at my grammar.

And yes at one point I did say that I was very thankful for your staffs reply.

This is what we call manners and I try to keep them all the time, no matter how angry people make you.

Now has anyone got something constructve to say here?

C

EDIT: I request moderator to remove last two posts. totally inapropriate and unhelpful. nothing to do with the issue at hand.

[Chris P]

Can we just have a constructive conversation here please?

I am glad to hear this.

Peter G is still on hand to provide assistance...

Best Regards

[callumturner]

Thanks chris. appriciated.

C

[PeteG@Scan]

To make it clear to everyone Il list the faults I listed in the RMA:

GPU: GTX260: Blank screen at startup in high resolutions
PSU: corsair 750w: Massive EMI
MOBO: UD5: Audible buzzing. botched bios. EMI from onboard sound.
RAM: 6GB kit: 1 stick tested faulty in memtest. had to return whole 6gb kit.
CPU: i7 : NOT replaced and still giving off EMI.
HDD: maxtor 500gb: just had total random failure.29/09/09

lucky I bought the case from amazon or that would have probably fell to bits too!
(sory that was a joke, i dont mean to be obnoxious

I did at least chuckle

Going down that list just to clarify the faults:

GPU - Blank Screens at high resolution points to a issue with the output chip. It does happen and is unfortunate that anyone should experience it.

Ram - The memory is sold as a triple pack and we are not permitted to return memory unless the whole pack is returned. This all or nothing requirement comes from the memory manufactures themselves and is industry wide no matter what retailer you purchase from.

Motherboard / PSU / CPU

I've checked on this. The parts were put together as a rig and tested. As the fault couldn't be confirmed but you yourself put in the notes it was suspected to be the motherboard or psu our returns guys upon finding but not confirming the fault RMA'd both taking on board that you had pointed out the fault correctly so they assumed you had fully tested and pinpointed the issue.

The CPU is unlikely to be causing the issues your seeing in the rest of the studio and I know they not the source of EMI in any of the rigs i've done in the past.

Out of a 2 system order you've had a failed GPU and a stick of memory fail. Not great I admit but it does happen and they both came in sealed packs to you so it's not as if we could have tampered with them.

If my pc is giving off EMI this isnt just affecting my pc, headfones, monitor etc. this is affecting all the equipment in my studio and all the audio i record is tainted with it.

All cases on the market are manufactured to a certain level when it comes to EMI emissions. If your seeing interference outside of the box that is caused by the internal components then I'm afraid the are far deeper issues here that a component problem that we may have supplied.

I've looked through the manual to refresh my memory on the bios layout. Indeed the is no spread spectrum on there. The one's you need to turn off (just to try) are:

C1E
C3/C6/C7 state support
Cpu Thermal monitor 2
Cpu EIST function
Virtualization technology

Although as you state you may have already tried all these.

The buss problem could taint the internal signal path but if your hearing this in conjunction with the external equipment then it may be a grounding loop issue.

What sound card do you have in or attached to the system. If it's a firewire card have you tied attaching a ground lift box to the firewire card to see if that helps resolve the issue?

[callumturner]

I did at least chuckle

hehe, anything to level the mundanity of your day

Out of a 2 system order you've had a failed GPU and a stick of memory fail.

I assure you the PSU was making audible buzzing without speakers or headphones plugged in. The onboard sound (therefore mobo) was passing on this interference due to ground lift that may be cureable if what you say is correct.

I think you are right saying its not the cpu making the current EMI but it is changing and effecting the frequency of it which led me to believe it was the cause.

hopefully this ground lift will fix it.

anyhoo, appriciate the tech help and gonna try out some of your fixes tonight.

BUT I re-iterate that the main purpose of this is to let people know how bad things have got recently with scan.

I have to say these forums are great but the first stage of customer support and returns is shocking compared to a few years ago.

Its a real shame to see.

After spending a large amount of money and having the amount of issues I have had it has taken all of this just to get an apology.

I just feel I have given you guys the commitment of being your customer however I haven't really got anything back.

Maybe some sort of goodwill gesture is more fitting?

C

[PeteG@Scan]

hehe, anything to level the mundanity of your day

I assure you the PSU was making audible buzzing without speakers or headphones plugged in. The onboard sound (therefore mobo) was passing on this interference due to ground lift that may be cureable if what you say is correct.

hopefully this ground lift will fix it.

anyhoo, appriciate the tech help and gonna try out some of your fixes tonight.

Some further reading from the hive mind. We've had a few debates about this on the S.O.S forums over the last few months. Try a quick read through of this thread:

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/sh...rue#Post765129

for a couple of working solutions that have helped others.