Bit disappointed by Scan's retail sales today.

[acrobat]

Hi ChrisP. I am sorry. I wanted to send this privately, but it was too many characters and probably would have been 3 PM's which might be hard to digest etc. So I will have to put it here. Its nothing too terrible anyway.

Ok anyway, I needed to order a 19" Rack Mounted Server for somebody today. I know my computers, but not rack mounted servers, or this would have been simpler. I looked on the site and found one that looked good. It mentions integrated graphics, a PSU, etc.. So I emailed from the page, because I just wanted to check something. I linked the specific product, and I asked, if I am right that this just needs a CPU, RAM, and Hard Disk for it to work? And is there anything else it might need?".

The reply was from "vicky", who said, "The main components to build a PC / Workstation would be:", and then just listed a bunch of components like Case, PSU, Motherboard, etc.. So they didn't answer my question, but I just said "Thank you" anyway, and continued to research it myself.

I was then concentrating on finding a 19" one. I looked at a lot of them, and they all seemed to be smaller. So this time I called, and spoke to someone on the sales team (a lady), who seemed a bit irritated. I managed to explain that, I need a 19" Rack Mounted Server, and that I'm having trouble finding one that size. She said, something like, "What?" So again, I said, "A 19 inch Rack Mounted Server". She then explained that the size was catagorised as 1U, 2U, 3U etc.. and she then said, I would need a 4U.

This surprised me, because the 1U's that I looked at, where just slightly short to fit 19". So I expected that she would suggest a 2U, but she said 4U. I said, "Ahh, thank you, I will find one of those then, goodbye"

So I look on the website again, and I research it some more myself on the internet. I find that there are only four 4U rackmounted servers listed. None of them are 19".
I do some more research, and I find out that the 1U, 2U etc.. is the height not width. So I do an advanced search on the Scan site, and I also go through most of them, one by one, checking the dimensions. There where only a few that where 19", and none of them would take SATA disks. (They all take SCSI).

So I replied to "vicky"'s earlier email, and explained that I was still having trouble finding a 19" rack mounted server that takes SATA. I'll cut and paste the emails here:

Me
Hi. I am still trying to sort this Rack Mounted Server out. I need a
19" (inch) Rack Mounted Server, which uses SATA hard drives.

I just called to ask about the width, and the lady on the phone
(you?), told me that would be 4U. On your website, there are only four
4U rack mounted servers. None of them are 19" wide.

By looking at the dimensions of each rack mounted server, it seems
that the 19" ones, are 2U. But from the list of 2U ones, there are
none which are 19" and use SATA.

If you have any that meet those requirements, could you please provide
me with a list of them? If not, I will have to buy from somewhere
else.

She replied with:
As per our telephone conversation, I never said that a 19" width would be a 4u server.
I did state that all of our severs & server cases where meausred and described by either 1u / 2u / etc.

ALL are 19" width..... it is the height which is measured in 1u / 2u/ etc.

1u = 1 unit high
2u = 2 units high

Kind Regards
vicky
Scan Computers


I replied with
First off, whoever I spoke to on the phone, told me 4U.

Secondly, they all have different widths on your website. So either
they are NOT all 19" wide, or almost every listing is incorrect on
your website. For example:
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...oductID=535515
this one is 424 x 43 x 356 mm
and
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...oductID=572793
this one 435 x 43.5 x 393 mm (etc..etc..etc..)
Neither are 19" and both have different dimensions.

And thirdly, you still haven't suggested 19" Rack Mounted Server that uses SATA.

If getting this help from you is a problem, I will gladly buy from
somewhere else.

She replied with:
The information provided to you earlier was given to us by a technical member of our staff, from what you have stated it appears that the information you were given was incorrect.
However we did double check this info. using this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19-inch_rack

According to our website, most of the servers are 434mm wide, which converts to 17.086inches.

19 inches would require 482.5999mm which NONE of our servers appear to state. Therefore we would be unable to recommend ANY of our products as it doesn't appear that we have one which would meet your requirements.

I am sorry that we have been unable to assist you on this occasion, if you require any help or information in the future, we will try our best to help in any way we can.

Kind Regards
vicky
Scan Computers

me:
Ok, Thank you.




So I'm hoping you can gather what my complaint is from that. If not, its only a few small things, but they add up to something that makes me unhappy enough to atleast send this.

1) First off, her very first reply did not answer my question. I know what is needed to make a computer. I asked her about a specific "Rack Mounted Server" which I linked for her. (Its this one). I was hoping she would look at that, and basically say, "Yes, that just needs a CPU, RAM, and Hard Disk".

2) Secondly, she sounded slightly irritated on the phone. And she also gave me incorrect information. All I said, was that I wanted a 19" rack mounted server, and she told me they are catagorised into 1U, 2U, 3U etc.. Those catagories are for the height (which she later realised), so that was a mistake. But she also told me to find a 4U, which was also wrong.

3) Thirdly, she denied saying that, when I emailed her back. This is what upsets me the most, because you could look at it either she was lying about not saying it, or she was suggesting I am liar by claiming she said it. This alone, upsets me, and is the kind of thing that would make me reconsider buying from a particular supplier etc.

4) The final email, did not really acknowledge any of these things satisfactoraly. She applogised for not being able to assist on this occasion (I will have to buy from somewhere else), but not for giving me incorrect information, and not for later denying that. She also blames the incorrect info, on "a technical member of our staff", and she mentions using wikipedia to double check the info. Wikipedia being a place that doesn't always have correct information. She then makes a further mistake by saying, "19 inches would require 482.5999mm which NONE of our servers appear to state". You have atleast a few servers which are 19". They are only not suitable because they require SCSI disks.


So basically, I don't feel that she handled any of this well at all, and I would be concerned if this kind of thing goes unchecked by supervisors etc. I am particularly sensitive to some of this, because the company I work for, has been though all this before with another supplier. The last time I called them, there was a lady there who was quite rude to me on the phone. I ignored it and wondered if I was being over sensitive. But my colleague happened to call there the same day, and he thought she sounded rude too. So in other words... I have the confidence now to tell you straight, vicky sounded irritated on the telephone. Whether I'd go as far as to say she was rude, I'm not sure. Hopefully that will never happen in the future, should I ever have to call again.

Besides that though, giving me incorrect information, and then denying it, is not good. If this was the first time I had dealt with Scan, I might make a big deal about it. I am registered to dozens of forums on the internet, and I know many people personally who buy a lot of equipment. The reason why I am not, is because Scan have been good to me, up to this point. Which is partly why I am telling you this - because I want to continue to have Scan as a trusted supplier.

If I ever contact a member of Scan like this, and ask for some help with something, and they don't know... I would MUCH rather them say, "I am sorry, but I really don't know enough about this to be able to help". They could offer to spend time researching it for me, but even if they basically say, "Tough luck buddy", and I then have to go and research it myself, that is fine! I will know where the boundaries are... I will know that Scan are good at stocking gear and sending it, but its best to not ask them for help choosing said gear. In which case, I will research everything myself, thoroughly. I would much prefer that, than giving me some incorrect information, which could end up wasting my time and money, both of which are precious.

So no major harm done. But I personally, have spent around £2000 at Scan, in less than a year. There is a lot more I want to buy, my brother has his own business which needs a LOT of new gear, and the company I work for are almost constantly buying equipment. On top of the 2 grand, today I was hoping to buy a rack mounted server. So basically, this kind of expenditure would be a regular thing. Its maybe not tens of thousands like maybe some customers, but its a fair amount. Perhaps a mere, annual £2000-£3000 or so, is not something Scan cares about? But I always thought that was a fair amount, and might make me a decent customer? But none of this was taken into account today, and I was dealt with the same respect as someone who buys a mars bar with £50 note in a newsagents. Thats not to say I expect special treatment. I don't. But I atleast expect to not be treated in a disrespectful way, which is how I consider this to be. And when you consider I could have been a new customer, its surely in your best interest to improve the situation.

Good luck, Scan.

[not_my_ip]

I hope that u don't mind my reply.

I think that from start sales person should explained how server are categorizes by dimension. Because if some one do it for first time would not know.

It is true that servers (if they are for rack mount ) are described as 1u, 2u etc. It is a standard for rack cabinets, and not only for server but as well for switches, routers and all network equipment.

Usually if server/switch/any other are designed for rack mounting and dimension is not exactly same as cabinet, there would be attached special mount system for this item. I have seen lots of rack mount cabinets and all of them have same mounting width - it is a standard. Usually dimensions are given in 1U, 2U etc, because they would fit in any standard rack mount.

This link might be helpful : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19-inch_rack

But anyway I think that customer should be given explanation. I guess the sales person assumed that you knew what you exactly wanted and how to fit it. And I'm sure all rack mount servers at scan can be mounted in 19" rack.

I hope I was a bit helpful. Good luck.
PS HP does quite good servers.

[acrobat]

Thank you. And yes, that was helpful.

I was going on the dimensions listed on the website. Some of them where 19" and some of them where not. I will read that link you provided anyway, and by the sounds of it, I should be able to buy one from Scan after all.

[young_one]

I am just going to point out that to be considered rackmount the machine must either be 19" wide or have fittings to become 19" wide, for eample the ones you mention above that are around 17 inches will also have mounting brackets or rails on the side to make them 19", this is kinda goofy to explain but when you see one in place it makes sense.

The 'U' numbers depict the height of the case front on for example 1U - 1.75 inches and 2U = 3.5 inches.

Also if you are not hot on servers, and this isnt personal as I would say it to many, just buy a Dell/HP/IBM. They come pre-configured, contain server grade hardware and most importantly come with on-site service contracts. When dealing with mission critical machines it best to know that if it goes down it will be fixed by someone who will be able to get the parts within a maximum of 24 hours no matter the day or time of year, if say the CPU dies and needs RMA'ing to scan over xmas then the machine is going to be down a long time...Just something to think about.

[acrobat]

I am just going to point out that to be considered rackmount the machine must either be 19" wide or have fittings to become 19" wide, for eample the ones you mention above that are around 17 inches will also have mounting brackets or rails on the side to make them 19", this is kinda goofy to explain but when you see one in place it makes sense.

The 'U' numbers depict the height of the case front on for example 1U - 1.75 inches and 2U = 3.5 inches.

Also if you are not hot on servers, and this isnt personal as I would say it to many, just buy a Dell/HP/IBM. They come pre-configured, contain server grade hardware and most importantly come with on-site service contracts. When dealing with mission critical machines it best to know that if it goes down it will be fixed by someone who will be able to get the parts within a maximum of 24 hours no matter the day or time of year, if say the CPU dies and needs RMA'ing to scan over xmas then the machine is going to be down a long time...Just something to think about.

Thanks a lot, thats a big help. I'll definitely consider doing that, although its not really mission critical. Its just going to be to host some websites and stuff. We also know somebody who can configure and manage it properly. All I need to do is buy it. The first one I saw used C2D rather than P3 or Pentium D. So I was hoping to just get that, and put a low end C2D processor in it, 2 gig of (ECC) corsair ram, and a decent SATA hard disk.

Now that I know they all come with brackets to make them fit, it gives me more choice to work with anyway.

[Chris P]

acrobat

Apologies for the mis-communication here... we always try to help as much as we can as Vicky has done and too add to this there are many other e-mails, which have not been pasted, which DO show this ....

However .. our technical dept has looked through your query and the following information should answer all of your queries.

1) Every rack mount server we sell is indeed for 19” Rack as that’s the industry standard size.

2) Our (and manufacturers’) product descriptions will normally report differing widths because these will often be the width of the chassis without the rack-ears installed.

3) The product LN17394 does indeed just require CPU, Memory and HDD to make it a full system. One important note though is that it will be VERY picky with memory – in the case of Supermicro (or most manufacturers for that matter) servers it’s prudent to check the memory compatibility list on their site before ordering to ensure you get stuff that’ll work.

4) While our own site offers pretty reasonable information on rackmount servers, the manufacturers always go into a lot more detail – sometimes this can confuse things but more often than not it can be quite valuable so I’d always recommend cross-checking any products the customer is interested in there.

5) For most queries, our tech/system build dept can help help and we can provide a direct contact to Rob Bolton in our system build dept who is extremely knowledgeable and can answer any further queries you may have

Best Regards

[acrobat]

acrobat

Apologies for the mis-communication here... we always try to help as much as we can as Vicky has done and too add to this there are many other e-mails, which have not been pasted, which DO show this ....

Are you talking about emails sent to me? Or emails sent to other customers? The only email I didn't paste, was the first one which I just described, where I linked her the specific server and asked her to confirm that it just needed a cpu etc. Her reply was a complete list of components required to build a PC, not a confirmation that I just need 3 components to fit the rack.

I'm sorry but, the fact that she tried to help, is no consolation here. Its how she did this that I am unhappy with. I have explained it well too. She sounded short with me on the telephone, she gave me incorrect information instead of telling me she didn't know, and then she denied giving me the wrong information.

Like I said, its better to not help at all, than to fake an understanding of something and then give false information.

Thanks for the information anyway

[Mossy]

acrobat

not everybody posses certain information on products, even the best of the best like myself have to ask every now and again. I agree conflicting information my have been given at some point during the conversations and I do apologise for this. Some servers which need to be rack mounted do require drive rails hence the differnet physical sizes but you will notice most are under 19"

I have spoken to Vicky and read all the mails which to me seem quite polite I can not comment on the phone call as we have no record but I assure you if you felt the way you mention it was not intentional. We would not give false information Vicky has used evry means possible to find out the information you required by speaking to technical and other members of staff if some information was mis-leading this certainly was not the intention.

Regards

[acrobat]

I agree conflicting information my have been given at some point during the conversations and I do apologise for this.

Ok. Thanks.