Bad experience with Oyyy.co.uk

[Saracen]

Actually, they haven't, in that I am still annoyed that Oyyy can ignore their obligations and fob me off to the manufacturer.

But did they "fob you off"?

Assuming you're talking about who you appear to be talking about, their Terms and Conditions are clearly available on their website, and state that going to the manufacturer "is often the best solution", and also that this does not affect your statutory rights. They are correct on both points.

They then outline the situation if you opt for a Distance Selling Regs return (para 3) and it seems to me to be a pretty fair summation of the rights you have. The only point I would take exception to is that IF the goods can be rejected because of another contract clause, including an implied clause embedded in the contract by, say, the Sale of Goods Act, such as the goods being faulty, then they are not entitled to expect you to pay the return shipping cost.

Obviously, we're not privy to any direct communications between you and the supplier, but they're quite within their rights to suggest that you'd be best advised to deal direct with the manufacturer IF you want the monitor replaced. BenQ may well do it straight away. But if you return goods to a retailer, you do it either under the DSR (in which case replacement is not an option), or you do it under the SoGA, in which case you're entitlement to repair, replacement or refund is contingent on it not meeting the SoGA requirements, which usually means it's either faulty or not fit for purpose. And in that case, they're perfectly entitled to check the goods out, and decline to do anything about it if they aren't actually faulty.

Retailers, for instance, are NOT liable for problems that occur because of compatibility with your hardware or software, UNLESS you made that requirement clear before purchase. It would be entirely impractical for any computer retailer to be held to that standard, because of the vast range of permutations of hardware and software out there.

I'd bet that any retailer will have a lengthy list of situations where goods have been returned as "faulty" when in fact they work perfectly, and the problem is either to do with some other component or software in the customer's system, or even faulty installation by the user. I'm not suggesting that applies to you, but retailers can't tell how technically savvy or competent their customers are, and there's some right numpties out there.

So IF you return goods under the SoGA and it turns out they're not actually faulty, you're likely to end up paying both a service charge and for the shipping both ways. If, on the other hand, you get BenQ to come to your door, you avoid that.


It obviously depends on exactly what you were told by the retailer (which is a level of detail I'd rather not get into), and it's possible that an individual in CS didn't word a reply very well, but the retailer I assume you're referring to makes the general situation pretty clear on their website and, in many cases, will be right in suggesting that going to the manufacturer is the best option, because it often will be. That, in itself, isn't fobbing you off. If, on the other hand, they refused to deal with you at all and insisted that the manufacturer was your ONLY option, then that's when Trading Standards will likely explain the reality of the legislation to them. Given the pretty clear explanation on their website (far, FAR clearer than some retailers, I have to say), I'd suggest that if they did refuse point blank to deal with it, that it'll be a mistake by an individual not company policy.

[fat jez]

If, on the other hand, they refused to deal with you at all and insisted that the manufacturer was your ONLY option, then that's when Trading Standards will likely explain the reality of the legislation to them. Given the pretty clear explanation on their website (far, FAR clearer than some retailers, I have to say), I'd suggest that if they did refuse point blank to deal with it, that it'll be a mistake by an individual not company policy.

Hi Saracen,

They didn't respond to my emails following on from the original, which I would consider to be "fobbing me off." Had they come back to me and said something along the lines of "We are very sorry about this. You can return the monitor to us and we can get you a replacement in a week while you wait for it to be tested as faulty. Or you can contact BenQ who can arrange a straight swap" then that would have been more than acceptable.

The one thing I would love to have clarified is the clause on their website (and many other companies have it too) is about whether they can insist on goods being unopened and unused. Clause 13 in the Distance Selling rules (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm) states:

Exceptions to the right to cancel
13. - (1) Unless the parties have agreed otherwise, the consumer will not have the right to cancel the contract by giving notice of cancellation pursuant to regulation 10 in respect of contracts -

(a) for the supply of services if the supplier has complied with regulation 8(3) and performance of the contract has begun with the consumer's agreement before the end of the cancellation period applicable under regulation 12;

(b) for the supply of goods or services the price of which is dependent on fluctuations in the financial market which cannot be controlled by the supplier;

(c) for the supply of goods made to the consumer's specifications or clearly personalised or which by reason of their nature cannot be returned or are liable to deteriorate or expire rapidly;

(d) for the supply of audio or video recordings or computer software if they are unsealed by the consumer;

(e) for the supply of newspapers, periodicals or magazines; or

(f) for gaming, betting or lottery services.

In other cases, the people I spoke to at Trading Standards (and I would hope they know the law) informed me that you have the right to try and things and return them, as how else do you know if the goods are what you wanted? You can't have a shop demo, so trying them in your own home is the only option. Surely none of the stores who state they will only accept goods back unopened or unused are followingthe terms, unless they are covered by Clause 13. I could find nothing else in the legislation that a retailer could give as a reason for not accepting unwanted and trialled goods back. I have to assume what they state in their terms is legal though, or I am sure they and many other companies would have had their knuckles rapped by now.

Cheers,
Stephen

[Saracen]

.... The one thing I would love to have clarified is the clause on their website (and many other companies have it too) is about whether they can insist on goods being unopened and unused. ....

Well, as I understand it, no, they can't insist on things being unopended, except for the specific items the DSR lists.

Trading Standards and the DTI both have written opinions that that "unopened" clause does not apply to other things. But neither TS nor the DTI are the arbiters of what the law says. The actual Regs don't have anything to say on that point, but my interpretation would be the same as the DTI and TS. The DSR says that you must take "reasonable care", but that's about as far as your duty of care goes.

However, what is "reasonable care"? If the retailer interprets it one way and you or I interpret it another way, it may come to having to get a court to decide because the courts, at the end of the day, are the ones that decide what the law means. Maybe there's been a case that's decided that point, but if so, I haven't seen it (and I'm not a lawyer, so that's quite conceivable).

My feeling is that having specified "unopened" in relation to specified items, the absence of that criteria for other items certainly suggests that it was not the intent of the Regs in relation to anything else. But if "reasonable care" could be interpreted that way ....?

I'd suggest that TS and the DTI being prepared to state, in written advice about online trading to business, that you CAN'T claim that is probably indicative of how courts are likely to rule. But the only way I know of to be sure is, if and when it happens to you, to be prepared to take it to court.

[chocolateorange]

Hi I'd like to tell my experience with Oyyy and the same monitor, I had slight defect in my screen (some trapped dust or something), sent an e-mail to Oyyy who told me I should contact benq direct. I was pretty pissed as you could imagine after having read this post after I purchased it.

"Now, BenQ have an on-site replacement scheme and will replace it next day, but this is a brand new monitor and I don't fancy a refurb as a replacement."

It makes sense for Oyyy to get you to contact benq directly but also to yourself (except if you want a refund) since you can get the delivery arranged to your terms. BenQ were brilliant and sent me a new machine the next day after I sent proof of purchase and a picture of the problem.

I experience that blackout rarely ( and only once just after I powered the machine on with the new display) Get a refund and speak to them on the ****ing phone, email doesn't help anyone. Be nice, and they're likely to offer the refund!

[Bob Agnews]

Was just about to buy a laptop from OYYY when I read your post, not the sort of customer service I'm looking for so will take my business elsewhere.
Cheers

[Disturbedguy]

Holy thread revial...