Text messages from debt collection

[Agent]

Just got a text message (no SMS return number) asking me to phone 01256 306796 and ask for David Shaw, along with a reference number.

After a Google it appears this is from a debt collection agency: 01256306796 - who calls me?

They seem to be legitimate company, but with serious people skills issues.

Thing is, all my subscriptions are at a minimum, and I rarely give my mobile number out other than to friends. Current subscriptions are:
Virgin Broadband (Direct Debit)
Virgin Mobile(Direct Debit)
Web-hosting with Evo hosting (Paypal paid and up to date)
Newsgroup server access via Giganews (Direct Debit IIRC)

All are paid up. I have no idea where this debt could have come from. I have no intention of phoning them....no letters via the post either - I would have thought they would have had to do that by law?

The only 'debt' I am in, is on my credit card (but all monthly payments are made, and no letter from the bank) and my student loan.

A lot of the people on the previous link mention Lovefilm....I was with them, but years ago, and it was certainly all paid off and up to date.

Any ideas?

[Blitzen]

My Mrs had a call from these clowns a few years back on her mobile.
The fella said she owed £212 to Tiscali (we have never used Tiscali) and said if it wasnt paid within 7 days the bailiffs would appear. Once i asked him to gladly send them he got very annoyed. If they had your address then they wouldn't phone a mobile remember

IF you phone them you will never hear the last of them.
Ignore it and dont play ball.
They are chancers and nothing more.



Even if you did owe anything it is actually illegal for them to contact you and not outline the reason why, how much for, and who the person calling for payment actually is.

The question they must ask and confirm are:
Name
Address
Date of Birth
Dont answer these unless they tell you what the debt is for. Only phone them if you are worried though.

IF it is something from more than 6 years ago, and it is yours, you can quote 'Statute Barred' which means if you have had no contact with the person calling in the debt for 6+ years, it is considered unjust to chase you for it and there is nothing legally they can do to enforce it.

If you leave it though, it will effect your Credit Rating (as you already prolly know), and it will be hell trying to get it removed even if its not your debt

[GoNz0]

time for a trip over to the consumeractiongroup website m8

[OilSheikh]

Ignore.

Anything other than POST is not official

[GoNz0]

yeh wait until they start phoning people on your street to see if you live at the addy they have listed, then it really starts taking the piss.

[Clarky]

As said above; from my experience its not a ring first and then call round. Its a break the door down and take what they like sort of business.

Bogus definatley.

As for how they got your number, it's quite possibly they bought it off one of those companies you listed as subscribers. Apparently it's common practice, it breaks several human right and data protection laws but it goes on anyway.

[elrao]

All sounds like a scam to me, if you are genuinely sure you are not in any debt then ignore it. As others have said you would need something formally in writing, such as a final demand, giving formal written notice before they could send any form of bailiff round.

[GoNz0]

it wont be a scam, its one of there underhand illegal tactics.

[Agent]

This seems to be still going on - I appreciate any input people can give

A few days after posting the thread I got a letter through the post about this "debt".

To cut a long story short - the card that was registered to pay my Vonage account had expired and had not been updated. I noticed this when my Vonage service stopped working and phoned them directly to pay (and updated the card).

In the mean time, Vonage had decided that I was scum and sold the missing payments onto these guys. I got the Letter from the debt collection agency after the payment had been made to Vonage. Presumably they had sold the debt on before the letter reached me.

I emailed Vonage and explained the situation. They said I was to ignore the letter and that it had been sorted:

Dear <full name>

Thank you for contacting Vonage, the #1 rated digital phone service!

I understand you have paid your outstanding balance.

I am sorry for the inconvenience caused.

As per our records, you paid your outstanding balance of £43.81 on 04-June-2008. Please ignore the automated email sent by the Collection Agency.

If you have any questions, your Vonage team is available to assist you from 8 a.m. to midnight, 7 days a week. Contact us whenever and however it suits you!

- On-Line Help Centre at http://www.vonage.co.uk/help.php
- Contact Us at http://www.vonage.co.uk/help_contactus.php
- Or call us free by dialling 150 from your Vonage line or FreePhone 0800 008 6000

If you call us for Technical Support, in order for our highly trained specialists to successfully assist you, it is highly recommended that you are near the Vonage device you are calling about and in the location you intend to use your Vonage service.

Thanks again for choosing Vonage, a better phone service for less!

Sincerely,

Vonage Customer Care


> > [<email addy> - Fri. Jun. 13 12:59:30 2008]:
> >
> > Telephone:
> > <>
> >
> > Account Number:
> > <>
> >
> > Billing Invoice:
> >
> >
> > I received a letter a few days ago from "C.A.R.S" debt collection
> > agency.
> >
> > This money was paid off to you BEFORE this letter was
> > received.
> >
> > Please ensure you contact C.A.R.S and confirm that I own
> > you or them NO money immediately.
> >
> > Regards
> > <Full name>
> >
> >
> >

I thought nothing more of it. Then another letter came from this debt collection agency. I emailed Vonage again and sent a letter to the debt collection agency:

Vonage email:

Dear <full name>

I understand that you have received another letter from C.A.R.S that states they will start court proceedings against you. I have reviewed your account and can confirm that there is no further outstanding balance due.

In regards to the agreement made between Vonage and yourself, if you are referring to the Terms of Service, you may review this information in its entirety at the following link:

http://www.vonage.co.uk/features_ter...d=footer_terms

We will contact C.A.R.S to confirm that you do not owe any further payments to Vonage, and to cease from contacting you any further. I am very sorry for the inconvenience this is causing.

Thank you for your time and patience regarding this matter.

If you have any questions, your Vonage team is available to assist you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Contact us whenever and however it suits you!

-On-Line Help Centre at http://www.vonage.co.uk/help.php
- Contact Us at http://www.vonage.co.uk/help_contactus.php
- Or call us free by dialling 150 from your Vonage line or FreePhone 0800 008 6000

Thanks again for choosing Vonage, a better phone service for less!

Sincerely,

Michael
e-Specialist
Vonage Customer Care



Hello

Today I received ANOTHER letter from C.A.R.S saying that they are going
to start court proceedings against me.

You have already confirmed I owe NO money below.

Please talk to C.A.R.S immediately and get this sorted. If I hear from
this debt collection agency again, I will be reporting you to
appropriate authorities for letting the debt collection agency pursue an
illegal, none existing debt.

In addition - You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged
agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply
a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1)
Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your
obligation also extends to providing a statement of account.

I owe you no money. Get it sorted now please.


Regards
<fullname>

As you can see I requested a copy of the alleged agreement, which they ignored.

I got a further email off them not too long after:

Dear <full name>

I have just received correspondence from C.A.R.S and they have confirmed that your records have been updated, and you do not owe any further payments to Vonage.

Please disregard the letter you received from C.A.R.S as it was processed and sent prior to you paying the outstanding balance.

Thank you.

If you have any questions, your Vonage team is available to assist you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Contact us whenever and however it suits you!

-On-Line Help Centre at http://www.vonage.co.uk/help.php
- Contact Us at http://www.vonage.co.uk/help_contactus.php
- Or call us free by dialling 150 from your Vonage line or FreePhone 0800 008 6000

Thanks again for choosing Vonage, a better phone service for less!

Sincerely,

Michael
e-Specialist
Vonage Customer Care

The letter I sent to CARS via recorded delivery was:

Dear C.A.R.S

Ref: <number>
Creditor: Vonage Limited
Client Ref:<number>

I suggest you contact Vonage to confirm that I owe no debt to them. I have spoken to them and have written confirmation that I am not in debt and I have a clear balance with them.
There was no debt either with Vonage before I was contacted by you by post. You will also be able to confirm this with them.

Included are two copies of correspondence with Vonage at the back of this letter.

Therefore, with reference to the above account, I request that you send me a true copy of this credit agreement before I will correspond further on this matter.
This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request.

Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose £1 postal order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.
I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.
Also, since you are a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.
In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER:
1.True copy of original credit agreement
2.Statement of account
3.Copy of the executed deed of assignment from Vonage
4.Fair Processing Notice.
As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.
Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.
Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by yourselves is made in writing only to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment.

As this account is now in dispute, I would also draw your attention to The Banking Code section 13.6:-
We may give information to the Credit Reference Agencies about personal debts you owe us if:
•The Amount Owed is Not in Dispute.
•The Office of Fair Trading provided a Code of Guidance that is in relation to Debt Collection: OFT 664 Response to consultation paper and final guidance on unfair business practices dated July 2003
Deceptive and/or Unfair Methods-
2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:-
k. Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.
If you continue in your pursuance of this account I will have no other alternative than to report you to both, The Information Commissioner and The Office of Fair Trading.
Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then seek advice from your legal department.
I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.
Yours faithfully
<fullname>

I enclosed A £1 postal order and copies of the Emails with Vonage.

I never heard back from them.

Today I got another letter from these jokers. In it they include utter lies about how I have agreed to pay off the debt in instalments and that I have defaulted on them. Suffice to say no communication has been made between me and them bar via post.

I am going to post another letter tomorrow via recorded delivery along with a request for the information they old on me under the data protection act. I will also be contacting consumer action group and sending a copy of these to the police - the last thing I want is bailiffs appearing. Is there anyone else I should be contacting?

Also, Vonage never sent me a letter by post before selling on this debt - is this legal? They seem to think they sent me emails (which I dispute, but never mind) and no other correspondence - not even a phone call (where it would have been sorted instantly)

Many thanks

[finlay666]

Is there anyone else I should be contacting?

Watchdog? They seem to like things like this

[chadders]

Forget watchdog (waste of time), forget bailiffs (unless they take you to court, and you lose - somehow - and then don't pay the court/debt and they get court appointed bailiffs in).

Not being an expert, but from what I've read your next letter should simply re-state:-

1. the debt is disputed (and they should pass it back to vonage).

2. any further correspondence (other to confirm the debt is disputed and passed back to vonage, or cancelled), including text messages and phone calls, *will* be taken as Harassment (Administration of Justice Act 1970, section 40 I think) - and you will have no alternative other than to contact the Police and Trading Standards.

edit: I see you're on moneysavingexpert already

[GoNz0]

tell em to [*** Oi - read the rules on swearing ***] and take you to court so you can show the proof to the judge and get awarded damages for harassment and intimidation

also see this website if you feel you need more help http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/

they wont give up and may well have used the &#163;1 as payment toward your debt as its one of there tactics to prove you have paid something toward the debt therefore acknowledging it.

[joshwa]

Debt collection companies are scum, subhuman scum, and any company that employs them, by default is also sub-human scum.

I had a similar thing happen - I sent letters to both the debt company and original company and stated the debt was in dispute, any further contact would be considered harrassment (as they should not be chasing debt in dispute), and stated any and all contact must be made by letter, and you can also deny the bailiffs (and company / associated companies) any implied right of entry onto any part of your property.

[greenalien]

Debt collection companies are scum, subhuman scum, and any company that employs them, by default is also sub-human scum.

In my experience, the 'sub-human scum' are the people who incur debts and then try to wriggle out of paying them, something that we all end up paying for in increased costs of services.

Of course, that's no excuse for incompetance on the part of collection agencies, where someone is harassed for a non-existent debt, but if everyone paid their debts then there would be no need for debt collectors.

[albertknowles09]

I got more details from this post about Text messages from debt collection.

[Ypnos]

There is no point contacting police as there is nothing they can do at this stage. The people you want to contact are the Financial Ombudsman Service and the FSA. You need everything you have in writing showing that you owe nothing (if you haven't already, get Vonage to write to you confirming what they say).

When all this blows over, bear in mind that you can charge the collectors £15/hour plus VAT for your time and postage costs. Also, you want to check your credit rating too.
DO NOT send them any more money. DO NOT let them worry you, it is not your fault or problem. In order for them to send bailiffs round they have to produce evidence to a judge that you owe money.

Greenalien - that's an unfair sweeping generalisation. No one knows what will happen in the future after taking out a loan or a credit card. If someone loses their job and cannot keep up payments, does that make them scum? Have a look at the thread on CAG about the inner workings of a debt collector and how they are trained to treat people.