As compared to anything. MS = Overpriced software. As i said before, i don't mind paying for the software as long as i can use it umteen times without having to buy another copy because i have changed a mobo etc. That is just plain daft! Plain greed by MS.Originally Posted by directhex
osx 10.5.1: $129
rhel 5 workstation: $179
sled 10 sp1: $50
vista home premium: $239
if you don't agree with the pricing, vote with your wallet, and use a competing product
Put it another way, as I have before in this thread. OEM is a perk that once wasn't even available to us unless we bought a machine. Retail should be the one you buy, but MS has allowed (or been forced to for all I know) users to buy OEM licenses at a discounted price.
Everything seems overpriced to some people in this something-for-nothing age.
//edit: directed at Koolpc, not directhex.
"As compared to anything"? That has to be the single worst qualifying statement I have seen since... well, since your posts in the Abu Graib thread.
If Microsoft's software is overpriced how about Adobe's? Photoshop is hardly cheap, is it? Oh wait - they offer a cut down version for those home users that don't actually need all the functionality...
Vista as an OS isn't cheap. But an OS is a key component of a PC build, and I really struggle to understand people who will happily spend £250 on a graphics card, £200 on a CPU, £150 on some RAM and then balk at spending cash on a relevant license for their OS. Perhaps it's because you can't pirate a graphics card? If you think Vista is too expensive you should be aware that there are free alternatives out there - why not give them a whirl?
EDIT - ooh - didn't realise SLED was that cheap - I may look into converting some seats here at work... cheers Hexxeh!
I agree with that, I like the Nero Burning ROM version bundled in my DVD-RW drive CD. But as for Nero 8, I do think Nero Showtime is not that bad, it has the functionality of Power DVD..
Check out my Tech Blogs: Budget Gaming Rigs and The Droid ReviewHomer Simpson: "It takes two to lie Marge. One to lie, and one to listen"
150 quid on RAM? 12gb then?
It's because software isn't tangible - it makes a difference. All too apparent when your a software dev
Crosshair VIII Hero (WIFI), 3900x, 32GB DDR4, Many SSDs, EVGA FTW3 3090, Ethoo 719
I have to admit that XP outlasted many individual components of my PC, some of which cost significantly more than XP did. As such, it was good value for money in providing me with my desired level of service at a cost over time that was less than other parts of my PC.
I don't see Vista being much different.
To the end consumer, sure. But we happen to know that the development costs of a new OS the magnitude of Vista are probably many many times that of some components.It's because software isn't tangible - it makes a difference. All too apparent when your a software dev
At the end of the day we can prove it's not over-priced - people still buy it. Therefore to them it is priced at a level which they will still pay. That MS remain a viable company proves that enough people consider it not over-priced to sustain the business model, which is all the reason you need in our capitalist world
I do vote with my wallet. I buy OEM!!
Why don't MS just do one version that costs say £80 everyone can use and then select what components to install?
Home Premium and Ultimate don't have that much of a difference between them but the price difference is a lot.
Everyone knows MS are greedy gits. They are on the news often enough and in court too!! I like Vista but i am not willing to pay £300+ for retail version when i can get the OEM version at a vastly reduced price which does the same job. Probably 90% of people who upgrade their PC's buy OEM versions.
Overclockers stopped doing the 'Retail' versions because people were not buying them! Check out their website.
I just think that it is so greedy of MS to ask someone to pay again and again for Vista if they upgrade their MOBO! One version should suffice. One price should suffice. Let everyone be able to buy Vista OS, one version for say £80 and also be able to re-use that OS again and again as after all, MS are always bringing out new OS's after 5 years or so!
Meh, I bought 2Gb when I built my rig and it cost me the best part of 90 quid. I bought another 2 at 60 quid a while later, so... Granted in todays market I can get *checks* 7Tb of RAM (and rising) for that cash, but such is life.150 quid on RAM? 12gb then?
Well you have the freedom of choice this way - imagine the uproar from people who only use Windows on one machine at being charged the same as people who use it on several
I think they'll go to a subscription model soon anyway, then we can forget about all these worries and be charged a fair (read, more expensive over time for the likes of me) price.
With Windows, the vast majority pay when they grab a Dell/HP etc. so the cost is hidden (and it's OEM too). I would quite believe people are going for OEM over retail because of the huge gap in pricing - particularly because we all know how lax MS are with reactivation (not that I condone it but that's the reality). But I agree - they charge what they can get away with (as does any company I hasten to add) and in the UK we're apparently much richer than the yanks..At the end of the day we can prove it's not over-priced - people still buy it. Therefore to them it is priced at a level which they will still pay. That MS remain a viable company proves that enough people consider it not over-priced to sustain the business model, which is all the reason you need in our capitalist world
They've often talked about such things and our German division does actually 'rent' MSware whilst we buy it. I can't see it being a big hit with home users though in all honesty.
Crosshair VIII Hero (WIFI), 3900x, 32GB DDR4, Many SSDs, EVGA FTW3 3090, Ethoo 719
And as such you're entitled to use it under the terms of the license associated with it.
They do a version that everyone can use and transfer from machine to machine as many times as they like. It's called Ultimate Retail. And let's be honest - if you owned a company selling a product that people would happily pay £350 for would you sell it for £50/£80 (do make your mind up)? Seriously?Why don't MS just do one version that costs say £80 everyone can use and then select what components to install?
Domain support. The single most important thing (I bought Ultimate: I could have got by with Business, but the cost difference meant it was worth me stumping up the difference for the MCE components.Home Premium and Ultimate don't have that much of a difference between them but the price difference is a lot.
Microsoft are a business, with responsibilities to shareholders to turn a profit. They're not a charitable foundation - they have a dominant position in the market due to the popularity of the product. You clearly think that the product is worth owning, and I'd argue that if you think it's worth using then you should be using it within the terms of whatever license you have bought.Everyone knows MS are greedy gits. They are on the news often enough and in court too!! I like Vista but i am not willing to pay £300+ for retail version when i can get the OEM version at a vastly reduced price which does the same job.
That's as may be. I upgrade my PC from time to time and I bought an OEM license. When the time comes to move to a full new build (new motherboard, full new system) I'll buy another license. You feel it's ok to breach the license terms, I don't. If you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living? I'm just trying to get some sort of insight into your mindset.Probably 90% of people who upgrade their PC's buy OEM versions.
That's their business decision. Other places continue to sell them, and I fail to see how this is in any way relevant to the discussion.Overclockers stopped doing the 'Retail' versions because people were not buying them! Check out their website.
They're not - they're offering you the option of buying it once to use through machine upgrades (retail) or to stick with one machine (OEM). Only you can make the decision as to which is most relevant, but you cannot buy budget and expect deluxe.I just think that it is so greedy of MS to ask someone to pay again and again for Vista if they upgrade their MOBO!
An OS for £350 (if bought retail) that lasts 5 years equates to around £70 a year. How long will you have that 8800GT before you replace it?One version should suffice. One price should suffice. Let everyone be able to buy Vista OS, one version for say £80 and also be able to re-use that OS again and again as after all, MS are always bringing out new OS's after 5 years or so!
I've said it before, and it seems I must say it again: the license is clear (at least in this respect). Ignorance is not an excuse. If you want the convenience of transferring the license without breaking it then buy retail. If you want to save your cash and have the license tied to the hardware then buy OEM.
Would somebody care to explain how MS manage OEM volume licensing? The reason I ask is that on a previous system I owned, one that was built in a reputable shop using a volume licensed copy of XP, I suddenly found one day without warning that MS had decided that my copy of windows was no longer valid/genuine and then proceeded to essentially sabotage my system by downloading updates and then refusing to let me use the programs until I passed thier automatic validation test (yes I had foolishly forgotten to disable automatic update). Anyway, to cut a long story short, I ended up having to hack a perfectly genuine copy of windows just so I could actually use my computer again.
So what Im wondering is how and when do MS decide that a given license is no longer valid as I would hate for that to happen with the OEM copy of Vista I have just bought for my new system.
I'm not sure that's because of the volume licensing thing rather than when MS cackhandedly pushed Windows Genuine Advantage on everyone...
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OEM volume licensing? You mean those keys with DELL, HP or LENOVO on? Or are you talking about Volume Licensing? They're 2 largely different things. Did your OEM install have the Windows COA attached to the case?
It's not unknown for PC shops to install illegal licenses, and Microsoft themselves would tell you that the Genuine Advantage thingummy is designed to let these people know. If I recall correctly if you were someone flagged up by this and could prove you'd bought your system with it installed, and where you'd bought it from (I guess a visit from their friendly neighbourhood licensing officer would then be in order) Microsoft were offering a legitimate license for your machine.
They charge £300+ for a retail version. You are then 'Allowed' to change components willy nilly to your hearts delight. How is it fair for them to charge that amount so you are 'Allowed' to change mobo etc many times?
I agree that when buying a version of Vista that it should only be used on one PC at a time. But to charge £300+ to do so, just so you can change hardware time after time is beyond.
No way Retail is worth £300+ compared to an OEM version!! Just so you can upgrade hardware as and when required!! It is just another way for MS to make more money from the consumer. There are people out there dull enough to pay £300+ and by doing so MS will continue to charge such high amounts.
I am dead against piracy but i can see why people do it. I have always bought my OS's and various software. I just disagree with having an OEM and a Retail at such a huge price difference with such hard restrictions (That MS don't really adhere to anyway).
Overclockers are a big company and it is relevant, that is why i mentioned it. They have noticed that most people are buying OEM, surely that tells you something?
As for buying budget and expecting Deluxe, that is MS all over!! They used to do that with Flight sim etc etc. Another way for them to get money off of us. Why can't the make one OS with one price? They could do, easily! They make millions in profit every year so don't tell me it is expensive to produce an OS and not get much profit!! That is a joke!! They could easily make the OS more competitive in price. They don't have to hike up the prices!
I have never heard of MS taking any tom, dick or harry to court for breaking the EULA. I very much doubt they would as for a start they re-activate 99% of the time and all they are really concerned about is (a) people buy the product and (b) they make efforts to stop the piracey kingpins. They are not interested in the average guy in the street like your or I.
They have never refused to re-activate an OEM for me or anyone else i know.
I have a cousing that works for Ebuyer and he has said that Vista OEM flies out of the company compared to retail. So, wether people admit it or not, most will be using OEM and reactivating it. Enough said.
Last edited by Koolpc; 10-03-2008 at 07:37 PM.
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