More bad news about Vista

[ikonia]

I simpley missed that you where planning to buy it - not actually bought it,

I don't think it makes me look stupid, the point is still valid. You've made a good arguemtn for why its pretty bad call to buy the upgrade, so really you're not going to get it so I don't see the point of complaining about it.

I do take you point that people arn't happy with the licensing - but thats the whole reason I made the "take it or leave it" post as thats just how it is, if you don't like it your only option is to vote with your feet and not buy it.

Same way this forum has a terms of use - if you don't like the no swearing rule - your choice is to bite your tounge or not post on the forum, complaining about it won't change it, however if everyone stopped using the forum I'm sure they would consider a re-think of the policy (just as an example)

There are tons of thread recently about how poor the vista license is in peoples opinions.

From a personal point of view, I don't have a problem with it, and I'm pleased they are enforcing it.

The only issue I've seen that would effect my purchase of it is DR's comments about a lot of activations on hardware additions like a UPS.

As I said - I wasn't having a pop at you, but the question still stands but re-phrased, after your investigation do you still plan to buy the upgrade ?

[Thebatfink]

As I said - I wasn't having a pop at you, but the question still stands but re-phrased, after your investigation do you still plan to buy the upgrade ?

He already said he "was" considering it until he found this out in his opening post :S

Now, another upgrade question. If you brought a PC off a joe bloggs like me rather than from the shop, and later found the damn windows XP wont validate.. Can you still upgrade XP to vista? Or do I need to buy a full retail copy?? Dont want to order an upgrade if it wont install over the top and cost me 130 sheets!!

[charleski]

If you brought a PC off a joe bloggs like me rather than from the shop, and later found the damn windows XP wont validate.. Can you still upgrade XP to vista?

No. It appears that you can only run the upgrade installer from inside the old OS, and it requires that XP be fully activated. This is going on the limited reports from people who actually have upgrade discs and are trying them out.

If you're still considering getting the upgrade version and are worried about future activation issues it looks like the best course is to make a disc image of your activated XP install now.

[excalibur2]

He already said he "was" considering it until he found this out in his opening post :S

Now, another upgrade question. If you brought a PC off a joe bloggs like me rather than from the shop, and later found the damn windows XP wont validate.. Can you still upgrade XP to vista? Or do I need to buy a full retail copy?? Dont want to order an upgrade if it wont install over the top and cost me 130 sheets!!

Joe Bloggs computers usually have Winxp corp installed they never needed validating, and cant see how MS Vista could check the serial number whilst upgrading (so many combinations). So maybe after upgrading, the old winxp serial number is stored some where and checked when validating Vista.

[Thebatfink]

Yer I just figured that the validation checker stopped me getting the IE beta's etc, so maybe it will know. But then Microsoft seems to try help those out with dodgy copies that would rather go legit at least a little bit. I have XP Professional, wether its corporate licensed I have no idea. But Windows Update thinks something wrong with it thats for sure.

Only thing I can see on MS site is info regarding license keys for upgrading dodgy copies to retail copies of XP. I suppose the lack of information in this instance is likely to be bad news.

I know its not MS fault of course, Im just not really happy to blow 200 quid on a new OS when pc is working fine sort of thing, seen an upgrade for like 125 quid i think and thought I'd have a look in for that money.

Maybe time will release some more solid answers once people have attemped it as I'm sure we all know how wide spread piracy of windows is everywhere!

[peterb]

This depends on your XP licence.
If you upgrade a OEM copy of XP, you have an OEM version of Vista.
If you upgarde a retail copy of XP, you have a retail version of Vista.

Considering this is an enthusiast forum and most people here get licensing issues confused, god knows what the average bloke on the street makes of it all.
They really need to make licensing simpler for ‘the bloke off the street’ if they wish to combat piracy. If it’s harder to choose the install version of vista over grabbing a copy and crack of their mate, they aren’t going to be spending their money anytime soon.

I guess the average bloke on the street won't bother! He'll be looking to upgrade his whole computer, and if he isn't an enthusiast, he'll be sucked in by the PC World adverts, go for something branded like Dell, or HP etc, and get an OEM license with the PC - the details of which he will neither know nor care about. (Until something goes wrong, and he has to re-install frowhatever disks are supplied, or in some cases, he was invited to make at first boot - just hope he did!)

It is the enthusiast/PC builder/corporate user that has to wrestle with the licensing conditions. I suppose large corporate users will have their personal MS account representative who will advise (and isn't there a method using a licence server that dishes out licenses to clients on large networks?)

As Ikonia wisely says - as an enthusiast, you look carefully at the various license terms, and you buy the one that fits your current (and possibly future) requirement, and budget. If you don't need the latest and greatest all singing mega expensive license, don't buy it. If you are building the ultimate machine (well, ultimate this month until the next upgrade in CPU/chipset/graphics card) and you qualify for an OEM license, then that may represent the best value for money.

But ultimately, you do your homework, and make an informed decision. Only you know your requirement.

[Dorza]

I've scanned through the rest of this thread and I don't think this has been posted:

There has apparently been a loophole to this situation found.

When I first heard of this I thought "damn you ms", but thinking about it they are completely in the right here. You buy the upgrade version to upgrade your old system, therefore you will no longer require the old OS. If you plan to use the old os disk after upgrading the system you should not be buying the upgrade disk in the first place.

[charleski]

but thinking about it they are completely in the right here. You buy the upgrade version to upgrade your old system, therefore you will no longer require the old OS. If you plan to use the old os disk after upgrading the system you should not be buying the upgrade disk in the first place.

Certainly, though the loophole (which actually comes from MS via Paul Thurrott) means you don't need a previous OS licence at all, you just need a particular 32bit environment in which to run the upgrade installer, which makes even less sense while still providing inconvenience for the customer. No point plugging small security leaks when you have a gaping hole in your system.

I was really expecting them to do the compliance checking by leveraging the database of XP keys used by WGA. Maybe they decided that wasn't sufficiently reliable to tie it to Vista, hmmm.

[directhex]

Certainly, though the loophole (which actually comes from MS via Paul Thurrott) means you don't need a previous OS licence at all, you just need a particular 32bit environment in which to run the upgrade installer, which makes even less sense while still providing inconvenience for the customer. No point plugging small security leaks when you have a gaping hole in your system.

I was really expecting them to do the compliance checking by leveraging the database of XP keys used by WGA. Maybe they decided that wasn't sufficiently reliable to tie it to Vista, hmmm.

32-bit environment you say?

[charleski]

Yes...
Actually, I wonder if it can be run in a PE environment - that would remove a great deal of the inconvenience.

[mike306dt]

Not what dailytech says guys -

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932

[mike306dt]

Bah beaten to it - sorry

[Thebatfink]

Does this mean I can use an upgrade disc with the version of XP I got dumped with?