Rowing machine for strength?

[ringring7]

Hi,
I am a intermediate level runner. I run about 6 or 7 hours a week. My upper body (arms, shoulders, back and abs) are fairly weak. So I was wanting to do some exercises to strengthen them. I dont really like doing weights.
I have a basic rowing machine though. So I thought about doing some rowing. Ive been doing about 10 mins after running 3 days a week on a low resistance setting. I dont need to do rowing for cardio as I am getting that from the running- but I do want to strengthen my muscles.
My questions are...
1. How often should I be rowing?
2. How long?
3. How intense?
4. Will pulling the rowing machine handle, higher up towards your chest, or lower towards your stomach, make a difference to which muscles are worked?
Any other tips would be appreciated!
Matt

[sp3n]

1. not at all with the amount of running you are doing
2. see 1
3. see 1
4. see 1

Other tips: If you want more strength, lift weights...

[kalniel]

Other tips: If you want more strength, lift weights...

This.

Ergos are for cadio work.

[ringring7]

Ok, so are you saying that rowing machine has absolutely no muscle increasing effect? Its only cardio?

What is an 'ergo'? The machine?

[LWA]

Basically a rowing machine is a cardio workout with toning benefits. It really won't increase your strength.

To increase strength try the following:

Weights
Sets involving pull ups, dips and pressups / pushups
Using the machines rather than free weights (as weights bore you)

Also consider training with someone else - they incentive from watching someone else / competing will really help.

[SiM]

Basically a rowing machine is a cardio workout with toning benefits.

I am intrigued. What are these toning benefits?

[LWA]

I am intrigued. What are these toning benefits?

I didn't realise there were so many pedantic people on this forum....

Anyway - toning is a commonly used term for losing fat and obtaining greater muscle definition (feel free to carry on the debate as to whether or not the word toning should be used ). As rowing is a resistance cardio activity it is useful in achieving this goal.

[SiM]

I didn't realise there were so many pedantic people on this forum....

... and you have been a member since 2003!!!

There are loads of pedants here - more than the average forum. I admit I am slightly pedantic, but I am far from the worst.

Anyway - toning is a commonly used term for losing fat and obtaining greater muscle definition (feel free to carry on the debate as to whether or not the word toning should be used ). As rowing is a resistance cardio activity it is useful in achieving this goal.

It is as good as any other cardio for burning fat (if you can keep up the same intensity - which is unlikely). As far as I know, rowing has no additional benefits for burning fat or gaining muscle* over the treadmill. Please correct me with some evidence if I am wrong. I am genuinely interested why you think it is better for "toning" than other cardio.

*a rowing machine might be considered a resistance exercise for the very, very weak who have never used their upper body - but after a couple of months rowing this would no longer be the case.

[kalniel]

Ok, so are you saying that rowing machine has absolutely no muscle increasing effect? Its only cardio?

Yep. Unless you have no thigh muscle at all, but as a runner you'll have some, so rowing won't make much difference at all.

Used properly they won't increase non-leg muscle in the slightest - your arms and body are simply a linker to transmit leg power and to finish the stroke. Talking of which you should be pulling the handle to the correct position, no lower or higher.

What is an 'ergo'? The machine?

Yup sorry. We called them ergos, short form of ergometer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoor_rower

[scaryjim]

We called them ergos, short form of ergometer.

I'm intrigued, which "We" is this? The only place I can ever remember hearing rowing machines called ergos was back when I rowed for about 3 weeks at Cambridge (fresher's flu kept me out of the trials, and early mornings were never my thing anyway... )

[ringring7]

If i have the resistance on a high setting, wouldnt that be similar to weight training?

[circuitmonkey]

I'd like to throw my 2 cents if you guys don't mind.

To start with, my back ground to rowing is as follows;

Started in my final year of my undergrad at uni, made the 1st crew that same year.
went on to win many events, mainly sprint regattas 500m and 1k's, but also a couple 5k's, 2k's and even a 50k (yes that's right, boston marothon, love that race!). These where over the 1st year and a half of my PhD.
I then blew my shoulder out (stupid arm wrestling in a pub) and went onto a unofficial coaching capacity and filled in for the odd sick crew member (yes, my one armed rowing was on par with some of our members able bodied rowing!)

You may tell by now I'm somewhat of a fanatic;

Anyway, as for rowing as a workout its a very good whole body exercise. The main power from a stroke should be generated from the legs (listening to various coaches will give different percentages, but about 90% of the power should come from the legs). This does not mean that the rest of the body doesn't have a part to play however. You must have a strong core to transfer the power to the oar/oars, and powerful shoulders and arms to finish the stroke well.

When we where training for the first crew, we would combine water training with land training (circuit training, weights, and erg (concept 2 rowing machine)) every other day. Now this is probably overkill considering the rest of your training, however our novices would go out twice over the weekend and an erg session during the week (read 3 times). there was no weights training for them, but after their first year every one of them started to look like proper rowers, not only more toned, but also with the broad shoulders you'd expect from a rower.

for this reason I have to argue that there is an argument for muscle strengthening and building.

I would lean more towards a more sprint orientated workout (higher resistance, stroke rate and 500m split) aim for either 500m or 1k pieces, keeping bellow a split of 1.30 if possible and repeat a couple times, aiming for a 2:1 ratio of exercise to rest.

another good exercise is pressure pyramids.
every 20 strokes increase the pressure from light->1/2 pressure->3/4 pressure -> full pressure and then back again.
one pyramid makes a good warm up, but several pyramids back to back make a very good training piece.

the proper technique of a stroke can be found here:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...g+stroke&hl=en

you should note it goes something like this:
1:2 ratio of power:recover
legs -> body ->arm:arm->body->legs
and you should be pulling into the sternum (just about where you chest ends and your stomach starts)

as others have pointed out, weights would be a more effective way of gaining strength, but if you really don't like using weights (which is something I don't understand!) rowing should sort you out.

p.s. have you given free weights a good try?
instead of a machine there really is no substitute for the real thing, and the land training most clubs offer is great! any local clubs you could try?
how about just normal circuit training, can be very sociable and also good mix of cardio and strength.
p.p.s just read this through, somewhat of an essay, sorry, wasn't my intention!

[kalniel]

I'm intrigued, which "We" is this? The only place I can ever remember hearing rowing machines called ergos was back when I rowed for about 3 weeks at Cambridge (fresher's flu kept me out of the trials, and early mornings were never my thing anyway... )

Yep, Cambridge also.

If i have the resistance on a high setting, wouldnt that be similar to weight training?

Nope. Resistance will never be high enough to fatigue muscles as quickly as weight training, and if it was, you'd just do your back in before actually getting much benefit. There's a reason weight training exists.

[LWA]

It is as good as any other cardio for burning fat (if you can keep up the same intensity - which is unlikely). As far as I know, rowing has no additional benefits for burning fat or gaining muscle* over the treadmill. Please correct me with some evidence if I am wrong. I am genuinely interested why you think it is better for "toning" than other cardio.

*a rowing machine might be considered a resistance exercise for the very, very weak who have never used their upper body - but after a couple of months rowing this would no longer be the case.

The OP is after increasing strength in his upper body and hence rowing is a better cardio exercise (albeit slightly) than simply running. The reason for this is rowing machines can be altered to increase their resistance and as such provide a more strength workout than straight cardio.

Lets assume "toning" is to increase your physical look (i.e. removal of fat, mildly increased muscle size) whilst not increasing your strength dramatically. Lots of repetitions at low/mid weight will do this and for this a rowing machine is useful.

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/t...t/HowToRow.htm

[sp3n]

If i have the resistance on a high setting, wouldnt that be similar to weight training?

are you paying attention to any of the advice given in here?

the only thing similar to weight training... funnily enough, is weight training - so stop dicking around and lift some weights!

[scaryjim]

Yep, Cambridge also.

Ah, those were the years (well, year, tbh - I had a few issues fitting in... ).

OP - just in case weight of numbers will persuade you, go do some weights. Rowing machines *really* don't have much resistance. If you are using a rowing machine and think you are getting resistance in your upper body, then you are doing it *very* wrong! Your problem is that combining rowing with running will only mean shifting from 100% leg to ~ 95% leg work.

If you want to do something different and not use weights try swimming. Depending on the stroke you use you can shift most of the exercise into the upper body and (IMNSHO) it would balance better with your running...