Evesham iplayer - the Freeview PVR you've dreamt about!

[damianw]

My own recent iplayer discovery - if you browse to webpages that have links to video files, and then click them, it attempts to play them (streaming over HTTP).

Sadly the video attempted to play in a tiny, truncated window and was neither use nor ornament (to betray my Yorkshire roots), but potential is there.

Glitch number 525: recorded the rallying the other night. Only it didn't. It appeared in My Recordings, but wouldn't play. I think it was a zero length file, as it exported to PC instantaneously.

Plleeeasseeee, Netgem, get that damned firmware updated.

[chrestomanci]

Okay, I've booted up with a Knoppix disc but can't change the name of the file cos I don't have ownership.

The owner is root.

How do I become the owner and then change the name?

Pretty please

Bring up a console (shell window)

sudo su -
cd /media/sda1
chmod 0666 <filename>
or
mv <filename> <newname>

The sudo command changes your role to root. It will not ask for a password.

Depending on your set-up, your USB drive might not mount as sda1, look for other sd<letter><number> drives.

The chmod command changes the permissions on the file so that anyone can access them. You will then be able to rename the file using the GUI.

Alternatively, the mv command renames the file. Be warned, it will overwrite files without warning, so be careful not to overwrite another file on the USB drive.

You can use tab completion in the command shell to save typing.

[Bob Crabtree]

Bring up a console (shell window)

sudo su -
cd /media/sda1
chmod 0666 <filename>
or
mv <filename> <newname>

The sudo command changes your role to root. It will not ask for a password.

Depending on your set-up, your USB drive might not mount as sda1, look for other sd<letter><number> drives.

The chmod command changes the permissions on the file so that anyone can access them. You will then be able to rename the file using the GUI.

Alternatively, the mv command renames the file. Be warned, it will overwrite files without warning, so be careful not to overwrite another file on the USB drive.

You can use tab completion in the command shell to save typing.

Thanks MASSIVELY for coming up with this info - and so speedily.

I'll do a boot and see how I get on - and will, of course, report back directly after.

[Bob Crabtree]

Okay, I think I've sorted out one problem but a bigger one remains.

The first one was that the file name I input was not recognised - cos of spaces and things.

I put in this command:

chmod 0666 Sat 20 Jan 19.00-20.00 - BBC FOUR - Can We Save Planet Earth?.mp2

And got this long list of errors:

chmod: cannot access `Sat': No such file or directory
chmod: cannot access `20': No such file or directory
chmod: cannot access `Jan': No such file or directory
chmod: cannot access `19.00-20.00': No such file or directory
chmod: cannot access `-': No such file or directory
chmod: cannot access `BBC': No such file or directory
chmod: cannot access `FOUR': No such file or directory
chmod: cannot access `-': No such file or directory
chmod: cannot access `Can': No such file or directory
chmod: cannot access `We': No such file or directory
chmod: cannot access `Save': No such file or directory
chmod: cannot access `Planet': No such file or directory
chmod: cannot access `Earth?.mp2': No such file or directory

Fortunately, when I did a dir directory listing, I accidentally discovered what I am presuming is the file's Unix-friendly file name and that was accepted.

The name as I saw it as in a Konqueror window was:
Sat 20 Jan 18.00-19.00 - BBC FOUR - Are We Changing Planet Earth? .mp2

But the Unix-friendly name (from the dir listing) was:
Sat\ 20\ Jan\ 18.00-19.00\ -\ BBC\ FOUR\ -\ Are\ We\ Changing\ Planet\ Earth?\ .mp2

So, I put in the line below (with that supposed Unix-friendly name):

chmod 0666 Sat\ 20\ Jan\ 18.00-19.00\ -\ BBC\ FOUR\ -\ Are\ We\ Changing\ Planet\ Earth?\ .mp2

But what I got was an error message saying, "Read-only file system".

Now, I have a horrible feeling this might be to do with the fact that the drive is formatted as ext2 - which, perhaps, Knoppix can read but not write to (I don't have any such problem with a FAT32-formatted USB stick drive).

I tried changing the rights for the entire ext2-formatted hard drive - which is identified as being sdc1 - but when I put in the following (which may or may not have been the right thing to use),

0666 /media/sdc1

I got the same error message, "Read-only file system"

I thought that all the faffing around I'd had to do beforehand with ext2 - to work around the FAT32 restriction on USB drives - was a serious-enough condemnation of Netgem's/Evesham's decision not to support NTFS on USB but the fact that I'm having to go through all this song-and-dance to rename an errant file (and, I've not even managed to do that yet), is really very, very maddening.

What I want to know (apart from a solution to my current problem - pretty please, chrestomanci) is WTF didn't and can't the iplayer support NTFS-formatted USB drives?

[Bob Crabtree]

Now I am totally confused!

I've just attached a FAT32-formatted HDD and that seems to be behaving the same way as the ext2-formatted drive, possibly (probably) blowing out of the water my theory about Knoppix not being able to write to ext2.

I appear - when I check that FAT-32 drive's properties - to have full permissions.

However, if I try to drag a file to the drive from the Knoppix desktop, I see a no-entry sign and if I try to rename a file on the drive, I'm told,

Could not delete file /media/sdc1/Thu 30 Nov 20.00-21.00 - BBC HD1 - The Innocence Project.mp2.

I've then tried the chmod 0666 route and the result of that with a file on the FAT32 drive is,

chmod: changing permissions of `Thu 30 Nov 20.00-21.00 - BBC HD1 - The Innocence Project.mp2': Read-only file system

I'm cold, very tired and thoroughly hacked off with Evesham and Netgem!

[Bob Crabtree]

I would look around for a tool that allows you to read & write the ext2 file system without actually mounting it. You might then be able to rename the offending file. Similar to the way that zip files where accessed prior to windows XP. (Having said that, I did a test by creating a zip file with an illegally named file inside, and windows just reported it as empty.)

I did some googling and found: a diskinternals tool that looks promising.

Thanks but, just for the record, although this looks like a useful little tool to have in your software tool kit, it can only read Linux partitions, not write to them or in any way change them and it's that ability to change files that I need.

Here's what the site says about the program (my emboldening):

A new free tool for extracting files from Ext2/Ext3 partitions in Windows

DiskInternals Linux Reader is a newly developed software tool for providing access to Linux file systems under Windows.

You can use it whenever you want: the program is 100% free.

It lets you use a familiar ambience of Windows Explorer for extracting information from Ext2/Ext3 file systems.

The only type of access possible here is read-only mode. It prevents you from interference with Linux and guarantees stable work of your OS.

[chrestomanci]

Thanks but, just for the record, although this looks like a useful little tool to have in your software tool kit, it can only read Linux partitions, not write to them or in any way change them and it's that ability to change files that I need.

Here's what the site says about the program (my emboldening):

[...]
The only type of access possible here is read-only mode. It prevents you from interference with Linux and guarantees stable work of your OS.

Well it was just a quick goggle.

I remember a few years ago there was an ext2 access tool as I described that gave read/write access. I guess it got superseded by the tools that let you mount ext2 partions naively.

You should file a bug against Ext2Fsd. it should not leave you in that messed up state. It ought to mangle the filename you see to something you can work with, in the same way that long filenames get converted to 8.3 format in DOS.

[chrestomanci]

So, I put in the line below (with that supposed Unix-friendly name):

chmod 0666 Sat\ 20\ Jan\ 18.00-19.00\ -\ BBC\ FOUR\ -\ Are\ We\ Changing\ Planet\ Earth?\ .mp2

But what I got was an error message saying, "Read-only file system".

Now, I have a horrible feeling this might be to do with the fact that the drive is formatted as ext2 - which, perhaps, Knoppix can read but not write to (I don't have any such problem with a FAT32-formatted USB stick drive).

I don't think it has anything to do with the USB drive being ext2. What has happend is that knoppix always mounts discs as read only by default to protect you from trashing your files. You need to re-mount the USB drive as read write. The command you want is:

mount /dev/sdc1 -o rw,remount

You may find that if you wait until after knoppix has booted before you plug in your USB drive that it mounts it as read/write, because it is now treating it as a removable thumb drive, not a fixed disc, but I am not certain about that.

What I want to know (apart from a solution to my current problem - pretty please, chrestomanci) is WTF didn't and can't the iplayer support NTFS-formatted USB drives?

Patents, copyrights, and the litigious nature of microsoft

Also the NTFS fs driver is beta and the ROM space on the iplayer will be very limited.

Okay, I think I've sorted out one problem but a bigger one remains.

The first one was that the file name I input was not recognised - cos of spaces and things.

I put in this command:

chmod 0666 Sat 20 Jan 19.00-20.00 - BBC FOUR - Can We Save Planet Earth?.mp2

And got this long list of errors:[/INDENT]

As you probably realise, this is a spaces in filenames thing.

You can either enclose the whole filename in quotes (either single or double). or you can let tab completion sort it out. Type: "chmod 0666 Sat" then hit tab, the filename will get completed and all the correct backlashes will get put in before each space and other special character.

[Bob Crabtree]

chrestomanci,

My hero!

I'll shut down and do a reboot into Knoppix and report back.

[Bob Crabtree]

Success at last!

First thing – huge thanks to chrestomanci – whose advice yesterday and today combined to let me sort out the problem file names on the ext2-formatted USB hard disk I have been using with the Evesham iplayer.

I've been using this large-capacity drive as a temporary storage place for programmes recorded on the iplayer and also as a way of conveniently copying lots of these programmes onto other hard disks within my main test PC – some for editing and turning into DVDs, other for playing back by the iplayer over Ethernet - something that requires the PC to be running Windows Media Connect.

++++++++++++++

So, this was what I had to do to successfully change the Windows-illegal file names of two files on an ext2-formatted USB hard disk, each illegal because it included a question mark.

These illegal names were going to remain a major problem because, all the while a file has an illegal name, under Windows, it:

* Can't be played

* Can't be copied

* Can't be moved

* Can't be renamed

* Can't be erased (short of formatting the entire disk)

The question mark that made each file name illegal was actually part of the name of a programme the iplayer had saved to its own hard disk and I had exported via USB to the ext2-formatted hard disk.

So two biggish recordings were sitting there taking up hard disk space and doing nothing useful - and there was nothing I was able to do about that situation under Windows.

The file names, not incidentally, were:

Sat 20 Jan 18.00-19.00 - BBC FOUR - Are We Changing Planet Earth? .mp2

and

Sat 20 Jan 19.00-20.00 - BBC FOUR - Can We Save Planet Earth?.mp2

The problem was fixed using the Knoppix 5.01 self-running (CD-based) version of Linux, which can be downloaded here - actually, the version of the LiveCD that's now available is V5.1.0.

The first step - having downloaded an iso image of the Knoppix operating system and burnt that to CD using the Disc Copier app in Roxio's Media Creator 9 suite - was to change the PC's Bios settings so the computer boots first from a CD, rather than a hard disk.

With Knoppix running, I plugged in the USB hard disk – which the OS recognised and mounted as sdc1 – fired up a terminal window and logged on as the root user by issuing this command,

sudo su –

The USB drive was automatically mounted in a read-only state, so I forced the drive to be remounted using the following command.

mount /dev/sdc1 -o rw,remount

Next, I switched to the USB drive within terminal by issuing this command,

cd /media/sdc1

I'd realise the previous day that I needed the names of the two files in Linux-friendly versions to be able to change them – that is in a form that that took account of the spaces in the names - and that I could get these by doing a directory listing of the disk, so typed this command,

dir

The drive's entire contents were listed but that listing including the names of the two problem files, which were shown as:

Sat\ 20\ Jan\ 18.00-19.00\ -\ BBC\ FOUR\ -\ Are\ We\ Changing\ Planet\ Earth?\ .mp2

and

Sat\ 20\ Jan\ 19.00-20.00\ -\ BBC\ FOUR\ -\ Can\ We\ Save\ Planet\ Earth?.mp2

I then renamed them one at a time, using the mv command.

Terminal let's you copy from its window previous commands and responses issued in that session, so I saved time – and guaranteed accuracy - by copying the file names from higher up the window and pasting them in at the command prompt. I did the same for the new file names by pasting the old file names into a text editor, editing them to what I wanted and copying the new versions from the editor to the command prompt line.

The command issued to change the first file name - taking the form mv oldname newname - and all input on one line) was,

mv Sat_20_Jan_18.00-19.00_BBC4_Are_We_Changing_Planet_Earth.mp2 Sat\ 20\ Jan\ 18.00-19.00\ -\ BBC\ FOUR\ -\ Are\ We\ Changing\ Planet\ Earth?\ .mp2

And, the command to change the second was,

mv Sat\ 20\ Jan\ 19.00-20.00\ -\ BBC\ FOUR\ -\ Can\ We\ Save\ Planet\ Earth?.mp2 Sat20_Jan19_00-20_00_BBC4_CanWeSavePlanetEarth.mp2

And that, essentially was that!

One oddity, though.

I'd wanted to copy the entire terminal session and save it as a text file – the better to write this posting and to have a full record for the iplayer review – but found that, unlike yesterday, a USB stick drive connected to the PC under Knoppix was write-protected.

So, I ended up going online within Knoppix and pasting the contents of the terminal session into this posting – later coming along and tidying it up within Windows.

However, I suspect that, yesterday, I may have forced the stick drive to be writeable by all users – from within its property options available by a right-click - something that was not possible with the USB hard drive and thus prevented me from using chmod command to make the two file names editable.

For the record, the specific command line used to try to do that was,

chmod 0666 filename

Once again, huge thanks to chrestomanci for keeping on keeping on!

[Cliff203]

Had a similar problem and ended up re-formatting drive so I am reluctant to try again. However I wonder if this could be avoided by renaming the file in ‘My Recordings’ before exporting it to the USB drive.

[Bob Crabtree]

Had a similar problem and ended up re-formatting drive so I am reluctant to try again. However I wonder if this could be avoided by renaming the file in ‘My Recordings’ before exporting it to the USB drive.

Cliff, yes, I'm sure it can but I'll try that right now since I'd already renamed the versions of the dodgy programmes on the iplayer's hard disk in anticipation of needing to check this.

Be back shortly - oh, but in the interim - know that the files that had illegal file names on the USB drive but were renamed under Knoppix are indeed accessible and playable (and everything else they should be) under Windows.

I never had any doubts of course - anything else would have been utterly illogical.

[Bob Crabtree]

Yup, as expected renaming the programmes within My Recordings so that their names were no longer illegal did not prevent me exporting them via USB to my ext2-formatted hard disk.

That meant that when they were on the USB hard disk I was able to do whatever I wanted with them - play, rename, delete, whatever.

Trouble is, as best as I can see, the only way to avoid the problem that I had originally with illegal characters on exports via USB to drives formatted as ext2 is to manually check every file name to ensure that it doesn't have any illegal characters - something you'd like to think that iplayer would in fact do itself when creating the original recording but, certainly in the case of question marks, doesn't.

For the record, the Windows-illegal characters are:

/ ? < > \ : * | " (plus, I think, ^ for FAT-formatted drives)

I've also now renamed a programme within My Recordings to give it an illegal file name and checked to see what happens when it's exported to a FAT32-formatted hard disk.

My expectation was that the export would fail and that the iplayer wouldn't tell me why - but, hey, that was just me being cynical (perhaps justifiably, so, though).

The illegal character I chose to add to the programme name - and which iplayer let me add - was,

/

I chose that only because it's easy to access from the iplayer's handset (and I did only add one illegal character).

Happily, and to my surprise, the iplayer applied a bit of intelligence when I went to export that file to a FAT32-formatted drive.

The file name as seen in iplayer's My Recordings was,

Sounds of the Sixties/

[Note - the iplayer doesn't show the .mp2 tail that the file will have when exported, nor the bit that the exported file also begins with - date, time and programme info]

When the file was exported to a FAT32-formatted drive, the file name it was given (as seen under Windows) was:

Sun 14 Jan 18.00-18.10 - BBC FOUR - Sounds of the Sixties .mp2

What iplayer had done is NOT use the illegal / character and substitute, instead, a space.

Bully for iplayer!

I then thought that just adding one illegal character wasn't much of a test and so added a bunch of them.

The massively illegal file name as seen in iplayer's My Recordings was,

Sounds of the* Sixti?es??/

Yes, iplayer did let me add all those illegal characters!

When I went to export that programme, the dialogue in My Recordings informed me that the export had failed.

So, I tried again, this time after a power-down of the iplayer and the USB hard disk.

The result was that, although, the programme's entry in My Recordings showed "Export waiting", that's all I saw, for ages.

Past experience told me this was a sure sign that the export was never going to complete.

The only time this hadn't been the case was when a number of exports were queued up to be exported to a USB-attached drive and one was going over happily and one or more were taking their turns to be exported next.

In the past, I've seen failed exports where the programme didn't have any illegal characters in its name (this illegal characters business was new to me and I only stumbled on it because two exported files had question marks in their names), so, this time round, I presumed the problem was simply to do with lack of good communications between the iplayer and the USB hard disk - a state of affairs that can come about for no obvious reason.

This seemed to be what I was seeing again and things didn't improve even after switching off the iplayer and hard drive and waiting a few minutes and trying to export a completely different programme before trying the one with the illegal name - the Export waiting message was shown but nothing was happening.

And the same happened a couple more times, despite fully powering down the iplayer and USB-attached hard disk,

So, even now, I'm not able to predict for sure what will happen if I try to export a programme that has a lot of Windows illegal characters in its name.

Right now, though, and until I can get the iplayer and USB drive talking sensibly to one another again, I'm making the assumption that my initial test of exporting a programme with a single illegal character - and it being handled intelligently by iplayer - was an aberration, possibly due to the fact that the character I unknowingly chose to use was the one character that's also illegal in Linux, ie

/

D'oh!

Hopefully, I'll be able to get iplayer and USB drive talking to one another this evening and, if so, I'll try to come to some rather more meaningful conclusion about what can be expected when trying to export to FAT32-formatted USB drives programmes that have lots of Windows-only illegal characters scattered through their names.

Now, though, it's time for bed.

Actually, it was time for bed hours ago, but this stuff just takes so long to test and, in truth, I was actually expecting iplayer to apply intelligence once again even though the file name was massively illegal. I simply hadn't expected to still be banging my head on this particular wall.

But, whatever happens this evening, that's the end of my testing of iplayer - the review now absolutely must be written up and published asap, cos the queue of products waiting for review by me is even more stupidly long than usual.

[MarkR]

Hi Bob, I hope the review is now well underway. If I can just add my final tuppence....

There are a lot of niggles but I think the non-stop recording over the hard drive is unacceptable. I switched off the recorder thinking it was just the time-shift but it was everything. Its meant to offer 7 day programming. It doesnt because your disk is full a long time before. [needs to delete timeshift files at say 24 hours or, even better, user defined].

The quality of analogue output is really not good. HDMI is good. The netgem was the same at first. They must improve / adjust the Scart picture quality. Its overexposed and detail lost.

5.1 channels is a must. Its no good offering HD if the sound is from the 90's.

Files bigger than 2Gb is ultimately a must - however they want to achieve it. NTFS seems logical if unlikely.

Cant wait to read the review. Lets hope Netgem / Evesham listen. Good luck.

[damianw]

Mark - I did notice just now that mine has a sound selector that can switch between stereo and Dolby Digital. I assumed you've tried this? I also assume the Dolby Digital is only available through HDMI (which I don't have, although I do have a DD capable telly, which is annoying).

Anyone heard when a firmware update is going to happen? As it stands I think any customer could quite reasonably return this item as defective because of the over-recording issue and undocumented 2Gb limit.

[chrestomanci]

Glad I could help.

Just one tip:

When you booted knoppix, your removable USB drive came up as "/media/sdc1" however different people will get different mount points depending on the settup of their system.

sdc1 means the first partion on the third SCSI device, where linux accesses SATA and USB storage devices via a SCSI interface, so I know that Bob has two SATA drives in his system. If I where to boot knoppix and plug his USB drive into my system it would come up as "/media/sda1" because all my drives are IDE.

The point I am making is that other users should be carefull pasting in those commands, as the mount point may end up pointing to a fixed hard drive, or not exist. Instead you should search around and find out where the USB drive has been mounted first.