Evesham iplayer - the Freeview PVR you've dreamt about!

[MarkR]

Thanks Bob. Probably a firmware glitch but I can categorically say that I was watching something on my USB HD and it interrupted it and asked me to change to channel to be recorded or cancel. Again a glitch but I can also say that on more than one occassion the STB will do nothing during a timed record (The front LED flashes twice when you send it any command). Yesterday it did not interrupt my viewing and was happy to let me do other things.

BTW I read on a panasonic DVD recorder, if you remove the hard drive for any reason and then put it back in, a format is required.

[Bob Crabtree]

Thanks Bob. Probably a firmware glitch but I can categorically say that I was watching something on my USB HD and it interrupted it and asked me to change to channel to be recorded or cancel.

Mark - believe me, I don't doubt what you say!

Again a glitch but I can also say that on more than one occassion the STB will do nothing during a timed record (The front LED flashes twice when you send it any command). Yesterday it did not interrupt my viewing and was happy to let me do other things.

Also don't doubt what you say.

BTW I read on a panasonic DVD recorder, if you remove the hard drive for any reason and then put it back in, a format is required.

Eek!

[Bob Crabtree]

Bob, Have you tried removing the Hard disc form the iPlayer and mounting it in a PC to see what format it is?

No, I didn't think that sort of thing would be appropriate until after I'd completed all conventional tests.

On most freeview PVRs, enthusiasts have attempted to decipher the HD format used, so that they can get recordings from the PVR more quickly than slow USB or Ethernet transfer.

Two things:

First, what other PVR products are there out there that even have the ability to export via USB and/ore Ethernet?

Second, how do people access these internal drives on a regular basis; do they actually move them out of the case and run power and data cables from within?

Otherwise, I can't see that accessing what's on them could possibly be as fast as the USB transfer - which isn't greased lightning but isn't totally rubbish, either.

In the timing tests I did, exports to USB were going out at between 3.8MB/sec and 3.9MByte/sec.

A 2.45GB file, for instance, was exported in 10min 43sec.

That recording, by the way, was of the movie The Shawshank Redemption. Including ads, that had a playing time of 2hr 40min.

If the iPlayer uses ext2 natively (as looks likely). Then that would be considered an advantage by some.

It would also allow you to figure out what those 'Other Files' are.

The only thing I know - more accurately, the only thing I've been told by Evesham - is that the internal hard disk does not record large files.

Instead, each recording is made up of multiple small files - though what maximum size each might be I simply don't have a clue.

[chrestomanci]

First, what other PVR products are there out there that even have the ability to export via USB and/ore Ethernet?

Topfield players allow USB export. I think the Humax player also has a USB port. The data transfer rate is about 500Kb/Sec, this means that it takes around an hour per hour of TV to transfer. If you have a lot of recordings to move it has to be left overnight.

Second, how do people access these internal drives on a regular basis; do they actually move them out of the case and run power and data cables from within?

Some people install cadies into their player so that the hardrive can be quickly removed and mounted in a PC to transfer files. Most people install USB to IDE converters inside the the player, so that all they have to do is connect the player to a seccond USB port on the outside.

The data transfer rate is often close to 50Mb/Sec, so you can transfer recordings in a few minutes.

Otherwise, I can't see that accessing what's on them could possibly be as fast as the USB transfer - which isn't greased lightning but isn't totally rubbish, either.

In the timing tests I did, exports to USB were going out at between 3.8MB/sec and 3.9MByte/sec.

Well that is much better than my Topfield, but still slow compared with what the hard disc is capable of. If the internal HD where larger, then many people would save up a large collection of recordings and move them en-mass, but as the HD is so small, they would be forced to keep on top of their recordings and transfer a little frequently.

The only thing I know - more accurately, the only thing I've been told by Evesham - is that the internal hard disk does not record large files.

Instead, each recording is made up of multiple small files - though what maximum size each might be I simply don't have a clue.

That would be no obstacle to the modders I have met on the Topfield forums.

[Cliff203]

Just recieved an upgrade numbered 4.7.24.
Don't know what it does yet but fingers crossed.

[damianw]

Just recieved an upgrade numbered 4.7.24.
Don't know what it does yet but fingers crossed.

Thats exciting. Except I haven't got one... *sobs*

Was it just waiting for you?

[Bob Crabtree]

Just recieved an upgrade numbered 4.7.24.
Don't know what it does yet but fingers crossed.

I've had a quick look and noticed two very positive things.

First - and most welcome - a workaround has now been put in place for the 2GB export limit via Ethernet. I am presuming that this will apply to FAT32-formatted USB-attached hard disks as well but can't check that right now.

An exported recording I've sent over Ethernet was broken into a series of lnked files - of 1.85GB or smaller.

iplayer sees all these files and can play any of them.

I presume that iplayer will seamlessly play them one after the other but can't check that at the moment.

That's because the recording I exported was of a high-def broadcast and, as I have reported elsewhere in this thread, iplayer simply cannot properly handle playback of these HD broadcast recordings over Ethernet because its incoming Ethernet data rate is not high enough - playback looks like its in slow-motion with large numbers of dropped frames.

Before the upgrade, instead of playing to the end, such files (HD broadcasts played back over Ethernet) stopped a few seconds in and I was told that, "Programme ended - press 'C' to exit".

Now, that message takes considerably longer to appear (maybe two or three minutes, rather than a few seconds) but appear it still does.

So there has been no significant change in iplayer's Ethernet playback capabilities - actually, none at all I suspect,.

The change I am observing may be due to the fact that the size of HD file I'm attempting to play is smaller than before (these were recordings I'd exported to an ext2-formatted USB-attached HD and then transferred to an NTFS-formatted HD in the PC).

Alternatively, or as well, perhaps, iplayer has been tweaked by the update to handle the caching of these files a bit more graciously.

Clearly, what I need to do is make an SD recording that's bigger than 2GB, export that via Ethernet and see what's what but I didn't have any such recording available to properly test, so just used HD for now.


Before I do that, though, I'll do an export to a USB-attached FAT32-formatted hard disk and check out whether my twin assumptions for such drives are correct.

I'm not taking any wagers (though I am reasonable sure).

The other significant improvement I can see is that you can now easily switch between the two possible export locations - USB or a PC.

There is a toggle in the Preferences>Export Recordings menu that lets you, with a couple of button presses, choose either "USB hard disk" or "Shared PC folder".

I need to look further into the implementation of the "Shared PC folder" settings but, superficially, this looks like good news.

There will, doubtless, be other changes but those are the only ones I've noticed.

I have, of course, asked Evesham to let me know the full tally of changes (I can't bear the thought of having to do a whole lot of speculative retesting!) and will report back on what they say and on what else I find myself - but that is very unlikely to be today, I think.

[damianw]

*sobs* why didn't mine upgrade?

Did it happen overnight, just waiting for you?

[Bob Crabtree]

*sobs* why didn't mine upgrade?

Did it happen overnight, just waiting for you?

This didn't happen automatically - there's a highlighted option for it to be installed and that's sitting at the bottom of the main menu.

Well, it was here!

[Bob Crabtree]

So, here are the results of my testing of the new firmware.

That workaround for the 2GB limit we've been seeing for recordings exported via Ethernet and to FAT32-formatted drives

As I suspected, the series of files (each under 1.85GB) that are created for each exported recording - and that you can see from iplayer when they are sitting on the PC (or a USB drive attached to iplayer) - does play back seamlessly, over Ethernet or via USB from a FAT32-formatted hard disk.

Over Ethernet, this playback is restricted to standard-definition recordings (the poor data rate over Ethernet precludes the useful playback of HD broadcasts) whereas over USB, both file-series for HD and SD recordings play well - and seamlessly.

This one change, to my mind, massively increases the attraction, practicality and usability of iplayer to a mass-market audience.

For techies, though, the best way to go - in my view - is still with a USB-attached hard drive that is formatted as Linux ext2.

Exports over USB to FAT32 and ext2 drives are much speedier than those over Ethernet and, but those programmes exported to ext2-formatted discs are each saved as one file (my largest to date is 16GB+), not a series.

That's significant because it's a whole lot less hassle (though not actually a huge problem with lots of apps) to re-purpose a single file, rather than a series.

So, ext2 has more appeal for those who want to repurpose TV programmes.

That might be turning them into DVDs or converting them to a more space-saving new-gen compressed format, be it DivX or H.264 or Windows Media or anything else that you might want to store on a hard disk for playback over Ethernet.

I tend to think that the very reason why iplayer is wrongly said only to support FAT32-formatted USB-attached hard disks and also why it's Ethernet performance is so dire is to try to limit the amount of repurposing that goes on with broadcast recordings.

It's almost as though there is a sort of unwritten contract between the hardware makers and the content owners that the hardware people won't make it ultra-easy for the average user to repurpose content.

That's a bit like - in my less than the humble view - the mindset that has lumbered the average user with copy-protection systems that, in many cases, the technically literate work around with ease.

And, like those copy-protection systems, this FAT32 restriction and the multiple file series business for exports – to anything apart from "unsupported" ext2 USB drives - will do next to nothing to actually protect the content owners, just make the average user's experience somewhat worse.

The change in how you switch between two possible export locations - USB or a PC

Sadly, this has not been implemented at all well.

Yes, there is now a toggle in the Preferences>Export Recordings menu that lets you, with a couple of button presses, choose either "USB hard disk" or "Shared PC folder".

Trouble is, once you have selected USB hard disk, your previous settings for exporting to a "Shared PC folder" are lost. At least, that's the case here.

So, when I want to export over Ethernet after having been exporting via USB, I still have to go through all the old rigmarole within iplayer's Export Recordings menu.

That means it's necessary, as before, to input the PC's IP address on one line and the name of the chosen shared folder on the next line.

This is trivial if you have a USB keyboard attached to the iplayer (though it's not overly practical to use a USB keyboard on a regular basis if the iplayer is in a living room, me thinks), but is a real pain if you are trying to input using the keypad of the iplayer's IR handset.

So, the fix isn't really a fix at all.

What's needed - and I'd kind of hoped had happened - is for iplayer to be able to remember the PC's settings for "Shared PC folder" and for these to be recalled as and when you want to switch to exporting over Ethernet.

But that has not happened and so, of course, nor has the thing I'd have wanted to come next - for iplayer to remember settings for different folders on a single PC and also for folders on more than one PC.

Ho hum.

What else is new?

Evesham did get back to me with further info about what's new in this firmware version.

But the only additional thing the company told me about was a fix for a problem that no one here has moaned about as far as I am aware.

Maybe complaints from users of equivalent products in other countries have driven this one along.

Apparently, with the new firmware, MP3 streams are better recognised – Evesham says iplayer now handles all formats.

[damianw]

Got mine to upgrade by turning it off and back on again. Thankfully it didn't erase all my recordings this time.

If it fixes the 2Gb limit when copying over the network that'll be great. Now I've used the iplayer a bit more I must say its started to endear itself to me, I particularly love being able to assign channel numbers to web pages, that is so neat.

The one bug I would like to see fixed is the constant rebooting of the device after you've put it in standby, pity this latest upgrade does nothing on that score.

[BirdyRob]

Hi Chaps. The iplayer has updated my end.

I've been waiting anxiously for the update as the iplayer hasn't been holding on to recordings at all... so I hoped the update might fix it. Unfortunately it hasn't.

The diagnostics show the disk to be entirely empty, not even the timeshift seems to be recording. Any thoughts? Has anybody had a similar problem - or has the disk has gone?

Rob

[Bob Crabtree]

Hi Chaps. The iplayer has updated my end.

I've been waiting anxiously for the update as the iplayer hasn't been holding on to recordings at all... so I hoped the update might fix it. Unfortunately it hasn't.

The diagnostics show the disk to be entirely empty, not even the timeshift seems to be recording. Any thoughts? Has anybody had a similar problem - or has the disk has gone?

Rob

It's posssible that the setting to make iplayer's recorder active has been turned off.

Check this from Menu> Diagnostics> Digital Recorder.

If the top item in the menu that comes up (Digital Recorder Management) says "Disabled" then you know the cause of the problem and can change that setting to enable it.

If it says "Enabled" then I think what I'd do to try to fix things (no guarantee) would be do an erase of the entire hard disk, wait five minutes and switch to standby mode, then power it off from the switch at the back, leave it five minutes, power it on from the switch and bring it out of standby using the handset.

Check again and see if you are able to record.

If not, then I think you need to speak to Evesham to get the unit swapped out.

[lindien954]

can you give me the files of last the firmware?

[MarkR]

Quick question. I saved a couple of films on my USB drive. Annie Hall for example is < 2GB.

Q1. Why does it expand to almost 4GB when I set it up to burn to dvd?

Q2. It would appear that subtitles are part of the mp2 stream. Can I keep them when I burn to DVD?

Thank you. Appreciated.

[Bob Crabtree]

can you give me the files of last the firmware?

With the Evesham iplayer, you don't actively download and then install an update - you simply press a button to say, yes, install the available update.