Theater 650 Pro Discussion

[jake123]

Given the debut of cablecards next year, where does it leave ATI and their 650 Card? Is it that their "partners" are also looking at this and wondering whether this new card will be able to grab some kind of market? Or are they hesitating, not wanting to commit to this and get stuck with cards they can't sell? I guess time will tell. However, the longer this card takes to hit the market, the less it will be attractive to buyers. After all, why buy a card that could be extinct next year. This is pretty much what is being said out there. Any thoughts MM? Is AMD now changing the game plan?

[hrlslcbr]

Well, at my website SeraphicGate.com, I make gameplay videos of boss battles and dungeon guides from tri-Ace games off my Playstaion 2. So after I capture videos and then encode using xvid or realmedia. Couldn' I use the video card to deinterlace the video before I encode using another format? (I'm trying to find the best way to deinterlace video without a lot of artifacts)

Then you can't use your video card to do it. Don't try, you won't be able to do it (trust me ).
Keep using AviSynth, but try another deinterlacing filter if you don't like the results you're getting. That's probably the best thing you can use now.

jake123: Cablecard? What's that (sorry, never heard of it... ).

[Seraphic-]

How do you need to capture in order to use your video card to deinterlace?

[hrlslcbr]

How do you need to capture in order to use your video card to deinterlace?

For storing it on a file, you can't. The video card deinterlaces video when you play a file (and not any kind of file... normally MPEG-2 or MPEG-4), it's not something you can use to process video on your computer in the way you want (it ONLY works when playing a file). And you can get much better results using Avisynth anyway so... (I see you have a thread at doom9; just listen to those guys helping you over there more than me ; they know much more than me).

@everyone: sorry for the off topic conversation .

[Seraphic-]

So the winamp tv plug-in works the same way? Not for capture, but only watching? (Never got it to work)

Also, nothing wrong with having this off topic talk. I mean, not like there is any new info on the 650. We are just all waiting for it!

However, I do have one question. Will the PCI-E version outperform the PCI version in someway?

Thanks

[hrlslcbr]

So the winamp tv plug-in works the same way? Not for capture, but only watching?

Yes. Exactly.

[jake123]

Cablecards are basically the venue that cable companies will use with Windows Vista for PVR systems in the USA. As I understand it, computer OEMs will be incorporating Cablecard hardware technology into new computers that would in essence be HTPC. What will happen is that all cable broadcast can then be recorded, with some restrictions and copy protection built in. Direct TV (satellite) is reported to be going with their receiver being the venue for all their broadcasting incorporating copy protection for PVR use.

What all that means is yet to be totally worked out with all the parties involved, i.e. cable, satellite, windows/MS, movie makers, broadcasters, studios, etc. All of this is geared for the MS Vista being the operating platform for all this in 2007. You can go to Microsoft and other websites that will explain it in better detail.

Where does that leave us who built their own HTPC? Not really clear yet as there is some unnecessary paranoia about copy protection on "home built systems" not being "compliant" with the standards. I think is another way of monopolizing an industry or product to the benefit only of the industry, not the consumer. Surely, the industry can produce a card that one can buy and install on their HTPCs that would allow cable/satellite PVR recording, and still meet their "protection" concerns. We'll see how it shakes out.

[hrlslcbr]

with some restrictions and copy protection built in.

More DRM crap? No thanks.

I think is another way of monopolizing an industry or product to the benefit only of the industry, not the consumer.

Yep. They don't care about the consumers, but only in getting more money.

[fanbanlo]

WHAT THE.... launch @ Christmas?

AMD-ATI preps DRM infected HD tuner for Vista
Launch for Yuletide, DRM infection guaranteed
"Bear in mind that the management of the company decided to launch the product at Yuletide (Christmas) no matter in what state Windows Vista is in."
- Inquirer

[Seraphic-]

AMD-ATI prep DRM infected HD tuner for Vista

Hmmm...December, eh? Along with "special" Digital Rights Management? Sorry ATI, but the NVIDIA DualTV is looking better and better.

[jake123]

MM, the silence from ATI is deafening. How about one storyline. Is the 650 going to be released in the form that it was originally announced and time (not, July is gone), or is there a change in plans as reported by some. Is this now going to be released in December, with DRM now included? Or is this another card from ATI? I mean, who in their right mind would buy the 650 in August, September, or October or whenever it gets released, if a "new card" with DRM will replace it in December.

If this is the plan, ATI really blew this with all their hype on the didn't happen "July Debut" of their 650. I think ATI owes its loyal customer base a little explanation and straight story here. Many of us have invested in ATI products (not cheap) and waited patiently for the 650 to complement that investment.

Like someone said, the NVidia dual tuner is looking better and better everyday, even without HDTV features. At least you know what you are getting. With ATI, it is getting more and more nebulous and complicated with the so-called partners, who are clueless about when, and if, the 650 is going to happen.

Damn shame.

[Octavean]

More DRM crap? No thanks.

Then you had better forget about the Theater 650 Pro since it undoubtedly has intrinsic DRM built in. All Vista logo tuners must respect and observe the “protected path” and are thus subject to DRM in hardware.

As far as I know, the Theater 650 Pro chip and subsequent cards had DRM at its inception,….again as far a I know DRM is nothing new for the Theater 650 Pro.

BTW, many DVD+/-R/RW drives have BIOS which will supposedly prevent certain digital media from playing properly or at all on a PC once its been burned.

Unfortunately, this is the direction the industry is going in. We can demonize ATI for this but they don’t set the industry standards but rather simply follow them. You can go to another company but they too will soon follow the same route if the don't already. The culprit here is the entertainment industry and the companies that gave the entertainment industry a viable DRM system/infrastructure. Individual governments are also to blame.

The entertainment industry created the need, the software companies provided the vehicle (Microsoft and the like) and the government granted permission and or full autonomy to do as they whished in this respect.

ATI is just a squirrel trying to get a nut,..a leaf in a hurricane,..they are just not a big player here and in this respect.

Do take note of one statement I made earlier:

One minor point, since Vista hasn’t been released or finalized, technically the specifications that presumably the Theater 650 Pro follows to qualify it as a Vista logo part could change.

If such a change were to occur ATI would have to make some tough choices:

1) Delay Theater 650 Pro chips/cards until the new Vista specification is ratified (hard to do if manufacturers already have the chips)

2) Release Theater 650 Pro cards that don’t comply with the already advertised Vista logo support and somehow fix it later (1.0 cards non logo and 1.2 cards logo supported trade up program or the like)

I just don’t see how a company can expect their product to have full compliance with an unfinished OS,…that keeps getting delayed and presumably altered.

I can say this though, each day that Theater 650 Pro cards are not available is a day I lose a little more interest in the product and another day that competing products catch my eye.

[Multimedia Mike]

Hi,
Alright lets try to clear up some of these points/issues that were brought up. I'll try to address everthing, but in case I miss something, feel free to bring it to my attention:
- Regarding that article mentioned above, honestly I don't really know what it's talking about and I'm not at liberty to discuss actual unreleased products. So really it's nothing more than rumours.
- On a related note, ignoring the article, Theater 650 Pro products are not waiting for Vista or anything like that. Don't forget that just because the Theater 650 Pro chip is ready to go doesn't mean there's no time or work related in creating quality products ready to sell. Those products are being worked on as we speak and will be coming out shortly (and by my standards Dec. is not considered shortly, so don't worry).
- Regarding DRM, if you check out the Theater 650 Pro Specifications page, it clearly says there's a DRM engine. As Octavean says, this is nothing new and is something we legally have to do. What it does is prevent you from doing things like capturing and recording protected DVDs playing on a DVD player connected to your computer via Composite video or recording pay-per-view or on-demand content (hence the name "pay" per "view").

[Seraphic-]

Hi Mike,

Yes, I have one. Will the PCI-E version of this card outperform the PCI version in someway? I mean, is it better to get PCI-E over PCI?

[spacded]

DRM has already been broken and it wont be long b4 someone reverse engineers HDMI , so dont get too worried about all the DRM BS!

I would like to try the 650 pro but TBH the last driver upgrade has improved and already excellent picture so i can wait

[Seraphic-]

TBH? Do you mean the 550?