Renault fixed a race. Briatore out.

[malfunction]

Here's what I read:

Oi. You'll let the cat out of the bag.

Seriously, Funkstar is more or less right, though his is the abbreviated version.

Firstly, I enjoy a good debate.

...
...
...



...
...
...

...longer is sometimes quicker than short. It's certainly easier.

(has he done yet... yes, he has, phew )





(in all honesty I am often impressed by your posts as I'm much more prone to saying the first thing that pops into my head which, being the first thing that pops into my head is often not that well thought out or that well expressed)

[Saracen]

.....

(in all honesty I am often impressed by your posts as I'm much more prone to saying the first thing that pops into my head which, being the first thing that pops into my head is often not that well thought out or that well expressed)

Thanks.

I know some people like them .... and I know some people don't. The easy thing is for those that don't to not read them.

The quick answer to the earlier question about why they're long is because that's what suits me, and I post how I like, not to suit what others expect or prefer. The above, really, is merely why I prefer it.

[this_is_gav]

Apparently the track organisers have placed an ad at the offending point of the track - "If cheating, crash here". I can't see that one staying before practice starts.

I'm surprised the other teams haven't as yet called for Alonso / Renault to be stripped of points for that race - as has been said even if Alonso didn't know what was happening at the time he still benefited from it / others still lost out.

The results can't be changed after a certain date - which I don't have on the tip of my tongue - but the results are set in stone now.

Of course, the irony was that had Fuji been before Singapore then they wouldn't have done any of this.

[malfunction]

Apparently the track organisers have placed an ad at the offending point of the track - "If cheating, crash here". I can't see that one staying before practice starts.


The results can't be changed after a certain date - which I don't have on the tip of my tongue - but the results are set in stone now.

Of course, the irony was that had Fuji been before Singapore then they wouldn't have done any of this.

Wasn't aware of that - makes sense I suppose. Should make him give his trophy back. Or eBay it.

[this_is_gav]

They've pledged to give big backing to the FIA's ongoing road safety campaigns, so plenty of good is coming out of it. Not that Renault haven't given massively in the safety department anyway - probably the main reason for buying a Renault in recent years.

Certainly Renault should do something with their trophy. I don't know about Alonso - the way he got to the front was questionable, but he'd have been up at or in the top 4 had he not had a fuel pump failure in qualifying (his driving had been fantastic up until that point, and he was easily fastest), and when he got into a leading position, he was never going to relinquish it. It would be a bit harsh to almost symbolically deny him one of his most hard-fought races. It'll be a nice gesture if he allows it to go up in a charity auction though.

[malfunction]

They've pledged to give big backing to the FIA's ongoing road safety campaigns, so plenty of good is coming out of it. Not that Renault haven't given massively in the safety department anyway - probably the main reason for buying a Renault in recent years.

Yes - I'd read that. Interesting that they decided to donate to what could be seen as Mosley's 'pet projects' ("FIA safety-related projects"). I'm not saying safety is a bad cause but I have to wonder if Mosley somehow profits from such donations (in a non altruistic sense)... Anyone know what the deal is there?

Certainly Renault should do something with their trophy. I don't know about Alonso - the way he got to the front was questionable, but he'd have been up at or in the top 4 had he not had a fuel pump failure in qualifying (his driving had been fantastic up until that point, and he was easily fastest), and when he got into a leading position, he was never going to relinquish it. It would be a bit harsh to almost symbolically deny him one of his most hard-fought races. It'll be a nice gesture if he allows it to go up in a charity auction though.

Yes - fair point - Renault certainly don't deserve their trophy. Can't say I can remember the race that clearly though I did watch the 10 minute video and check the results on formula1.com the other day as I wanted to see if this would have affected Hamilton's 1 point victory last year (I'd also forgotten this was the race that Massa tried to exit the pit lane with the fuel hose attached).

[Dragonclaw]

Maybe Renault could fit it in the toilets at the next race for everyone to pee in!! lol

[malfunction]

Maybe Renault could fit it in the toilets at the next race for everyone to pee in!! lol

Or strap it to Grosjean's nose cone in case he crashes...

[vti_786]

can I ask you all a very serious question though pls?

Will this effect ANYONE's interest in buying Renault cars?

Because, twice today I've heard respected news commentators stating that Renault world wide will be effected by this in terms of business, and for my 4penneth.. Briatore and F1 have no impact on a Clio being a great car.

thoughts?

when you said 'clios being a great car', were you having a laugh, my sister has owned 1 for a couple of years and i can't recall a part not failing, awful build

[beanbandit]

Finally Renault get some sort of penalty, maybe indirect, and may not mean much in the long run, but hopefully their find it harder to get a good sponsorship deal after this.

"In light of the verdict of the World Motor Sport Council of 21 September 2009 concerning the events that occurred at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix, ING will terminate the contract with Renault Formula One with immediate effect," the company said.

"ING is deeply disappointed at this turn of events, especially in the context of an otherwise successful sponsorship."

Mutua Madrilena announced earlier on Thursday they had withdrawn their sponsorship from the team for similar reasons.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8273965.stm

[this_is_gav]

Brilliant moment in first practice earlier... Grosjean (Piquet's replacement) crashed in an almost identical manner at the same place. The remaining Renault guys mustn't have known whether to laugh or cry.

[malfunction]

Brilliant moment in first practice earlier... Grosjean (Piquet's replacement) crashed in an almost identical manner at the same place. The remaining Renault guys mustn't have known whether to laugh or cry.

I chuckled when I heard this earlier today too - at least it shows it's a plausible place to crash

[Rave]

Am I the only one who doesn't actually give a monkeys about this?

As a racing spectacle, Formula 1 is pretty much a dead loss. You can count the number of overtaking moves in a season on your fingers and toes. Personally I reckon that when a commentator has to talk up the speed or otherwise fo a pit stop as being crucial to a race result, you're looking at an engineering excersise rather than a proper exciting sport.

When the technical regs make overtaking so difficult, strategy becomes all important. I don't think Piquet's crash endangered anyone including himself. I do think it enabled Renault to win a race they deserved to win, but which they might not have done otherwise through some other unfortunate happenstance.

You can claim it's unsporting all you like- but Formula 1 is quitessentially unsporting, because the technical regs give such a massive advantage to the man with the best car, or the man who, through luck, gets the holeshot at the first corner. Given that, I think Renault had every right to do what they did. And now I hate Formula 1 even more than I did before. Cheers!

[malfunction]

Am I the only one who doesn't actually give a monkeys about this?

As a racing spectacle, Formula 1 is pretty much a dead loss. You can count the number of overtaking moves in a season on your fingers and toes. Personally I reckon that when a commentator has to talk up the speed or otherwise fo a pit stop as being crucial to a race result, you're looking at an engineering excersise rather than a proper exciting sport.

When the technical regs make overtaking so difficult, strategy becomes all important. I don't think Piquet's crash endangered anyone including himself. I do think it enabled Renault to win a race they deserved to win, but which they might not have done otherwise through some other unfortunate happenstance.

You can claim it's unsporting all you like- but Formula 1 is quitessentially unsporting, because the technical regs give such a massive advantage to the man with the best car, or the man who, through luck, gets the holeshot at the first corner. Given that, I think Renault had every right to do what they did. And now I hate Formula 1 even more than I did before. Cheers!

I maintain an attitude that it's only sport (though it's also big business at the same time so I can see why those involved take it seriously). Races have become much more strategic which does make it hard to stay interested in a fair number of races - you definitely can't watch a race tired or hungover and give a damn about it and often qualifying is more interesting than the race itself. Perhaps the races are simply too long these days?

It doesn't help that many of the new tracks are flat out boring - Singapore was damn boring compared to last year and Valencia should be dropped IMO. I know safety is very important but there has to be some appreciation for the fact that the quirks of the older tracks - and the challenge and danger involved because of them - are largely what makes them interesting.

Personally I don't know how you fix it without making it too restrictive - I'd be in favour of opening up the technical regulations (whether that's to introduce road relevant tech or not) but I'm not convinced that would help. On that note I find it strange that KERS was introduced but on such a restrictive basis - why not let them get as much of a boost as much of the time as is possible?

[kalniel]

Opening up the technical regs makes things worse, not better. At least this year the relative performance across the field has been so close that it only takes a small change and new cars are at the top of the field.

I think a lot of it is track design - some tracks like Valancia are just awful and shouldn't have a place on the calender, but money talks louder than anything else in F1. Other tracks are worth it for the madness (monaco), showcasing of what F1 cars can do (silverstone) while not providing any overtaking oportunities. But to have a track that helps overtaking means it has to be practically stop-start like monza.

I'd love to see the number of laps halved.

[malfunction]

Opening up the technical regs makes things worse, not better. At least this year the relative performance across the field has been so close that it only takes a small change and new cars are at the top of the field.

I know what you're getting at in terms of the racing but part of the appeal has always been the techie aspect of it all - and it would be far more interesting to hear them compare turbo / NA cars or cars with ground effect / fans etc than bloody tyres - especially when there's only one tyre manufacturer in the damn thing and there's a pointless "must use 2 compounds during the race" rule. I can only imagine that Bridgestone insisted upon that rule to keep everybody talking about the tyres but personally it bores and annoys me. I like the idea of having tyre changes / pit stops but forcing the teams to use 2 compounds during the race instead of just using whatever's best for the car / track is too artificial and as such irritates me.

One example that comes to mind is that the racing was - as far as I remember it - more interesting before they rev limited the engines. I'm happy for them to specify cylinders and capacity and for them to say you can only use X engines in one season but I'd prefer it if there were no rev limit in place... I understand they want to cut costs and keep teams in the sport but if all cars were equal it wouldn't be formula 1.