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Thread: Making Drivers Cars?

  1. #17
    Oh no!I've re-dorkalated! Jiff Lemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig
    Over 150bhp needs rwd my arse, just learn to feed the power in properly
    Let's just say I know how to feed the power in eh?

    But its not about feeding the power in, its about avoiding torque steer.
    Equal length drive shafts will go some way to this, But ultimatly you've got to look at adding an LSD to put the power down equally through both wheels, or you'll spin the lightest wheel (Same with RWD).
    And theres the problem.

    RWD the front wheels steer, the back puts the power down.
    FWD the fronts are doing the lot - Heck you could lose a real wheel, as it's only purpose is to stop the ar$e scraping along the ground.

    Add a diff to a FWD and suddenly you're fighting with steering rather than working with it. It's all a case of balance.

    Mk1 golf was a hoot because it was light and therefore didn't need as much power - It left the factory with 110 bhp. It tipped the scales at around 910kg.

    The 106 GTi - Again a hoot to drive, weighs under 1000kg - there's the key.

    Look at the 205 GTi's - the 1.6 is the better drivers car - The 1.9's extra power make it much more of a handful on the road.

  2. #18
    Va Va Voom Lowe's Avatar
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    Hmm, I find my Clio weighing ~800kg with 157ish bhp is perfectly driveable. Doesn't scrabble off the line too much really. Just got to be sensible with the juice pedal - hence why I think a few more ponies won't hurt.

    But getting back to drivers cars, there's little about these days and as you've all said it comes down to safety. People demand safe cars, and this does come at the cost of weight.

    Saftely VS weight is a sobering subject for me. I know if I crash or get hit by something there's a very, very good chance I won't be walking away from it at best. I drive with a 6th sense, rarely take a real risk which often ends up with passengers being disappointed that I don't drive on the limit so much. Bit like a biker I guess.

  3. #19
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    the rwd to fwd "putting power down" is sortable.

    But the VITAL ingredient is that...

    A: you only pull away once per few miles, BUT you corner ever second of every journey.

    B: To be able to adjust the cars attitude with the front wheels with both POWER and STEERING is a balance that most punters will find easier long term

    C: to confidently drift a rwd car at anything over 30 mph is terrifying for 95% of the worlds drivers, and for that reason is WRONG....but I could teach most anyone to do it in a fwd car on a big roundabout with a dab of brake pedal

    D: Sudden weight transfer is the reason RWD cars get up and go so damn quickly, but driver and suspension engineer between them can balance it on fwd to acceptable levels....and from the 3rd gear and up.....forget it. RWD has it all wrong. Lets PULL the car, not push it.


    Less essential but most fun for 1 day per year:

    E: I'd like to be able to drive my car in the snow...thanks very much if its all the same to you, without having 6 bags of coal in the boot, to try to increase my chances of getting up a hill of more than 1:10

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
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  4. #20
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    summit lese exceptional to this thread...

    no one mentions 4x4

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

  5. #21
    Sexiest Hexus user? quite possibly Russ's Avatar
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    it all goes back to TiG's first post. what IS a drivers car? for some people it will be car that revs forever and you could happily cruise down the motorway at 160 with thousands of revs to spare, steering would be simple and the car would be comfortable. for others, they wouldnt care about top speed, just how fast it goes off the lights, how fast you can corner and how little body roll could b e acheived.

    as the famous quote go's

    "you can please most people some of the time, some people most of the time, but never everyone"
    Gamertag - Russonf (xbox and ps3)

  6. #22
    Sexiest Hexus user? quite possibly Russ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5lab
    but if car x is rwd and car y is fwd then car x can accelerate faster off a line.
    prove it.

    i can easily match any list of rwd cars with a fwd list of 0-60 - 0-100 times
    Gamertag - Russonf (xbox and ps3)

  7. #23
    Oh no!I've re-dorkalated! Jiff Lemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ
    it all goes back to TiG's first post. what IS a drivers car? for some people it will be car that revs forever and you could happily cruise down the motorway at 160 with thousands of revs to spare, steering would be simple and the car would be comfortable. for others, they wouldnt care about top speed, just how fast it goes off the lights, how fast you can corner and how little body roll could b e acheived.

    as the famous quote go's

    "you can please most people some of the time, some people most of the time, but never everyone"
    Indeed, think you've hit the nail on the head. A drivers car is a car that the driver feels at home in.

    The FWD/RWD argument is something we could spend many thread debating. I've done both to the extreme - From the "dog against a lampost" FWD to the tail sliding looking out of the passenger window RWD. It boils down to what you feel more comfortable with.

    Tail sliding in RWD is not the most efficient or fastest way to drive either - It's simply show boating

  8. #24
    Va Va Voom Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiff Lemon
    Tail sliding in RWD is not the most efficient or fastest way to drive either - It's simply show boating
    Yeah but it looks great

    Hence why I want a 200SX

  9. #25
    Missing in Action CocoPops's Avatar
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    I can't help but think "Clio172/182/Cup" etc when reading this thread.

    It's FWD, It's "fairly" light, ok so the 172/182 have toys like ABS,leccy stuff etc but it seems to line up with the majority of comments here.

    They are also a car that have tuning goodies abound, so if you're not happy with the "toned down" marketing approach, you can take it a little further.

  10. #26
    Administrator Moby-Dick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowe
    Yeah but it looks great

    Hence why I want a 200SX
    :hugegrin:

    should be getting my LSD fitted soon

    then its time to fit some budget nankyangs and doooooooooorifto !!
    my Virtualisation Blog http://jfvi.co.uk Virtualisation Podcast http://vsoup.net

  11. #27
    Oh no!I've re-dorkalated! Jiff Lemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CocoPops
    I can't help but think "Clio172/182/Cup" etc when reading this thread.

    It's FWD, It's "fairly" light, ok so the 172/182 have toys like ABS,leccy stuff etc but it seems to line up with the majority of comments here.

    They are also a car that have tuning goodies abound, so if you're not happy with the "toned down" marketing approach, you can take it a little further.
    But compare with the orginal.

    Clio 16v - 137bhp
    Clio williams - 150bhp

    Now the Sporty clio needs the extra pony's cos it's having to drag more weight about.

  12. #28
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zak33
    E: I'd like to be able to drive my car in the snow...thanks very much if its all the same to you, without having 6 bags of coal in the boot, to try to increase my chances of getting up a hill of more than 1:10
    There's an easy solution to that problem: put the engine behind the driver. Or, for even more traction, behind the rear axle; an approach favoured by one of the finest driver's cars ever:



    The Skoda Rapid

    Rich :¬)

  13. #29
    www.5lab.co.uk
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    i mentioned 4wd

    incidentally, my car was the only one (out of about 60 or 70) that made it out of a muddy field filled with students a couple of weeks ago. because its rwd and everything else was fwd. that and it was loaded with heavy kit, and the rear tyres were flat. hehe.
    hughlunnon@yahoo.com | I have sigs turned off..

  14. #30
    HEXUS.Metal Knoxville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ
    prove it.

    i can easily match any list of rwd cars with a fwd list of 0-60 - 0-100 times
    Ferrari 2004 f1 car proves you wrong straight off im afraid dude, the main reason being not that it ain;t possible to have a very quick fwd just that mid-engined rwd cars are the easier to make quicker while keeping decent handling, 4wd is imo the way forward for driving safely at the limit, ever seen russ swift in an evo? its perfectly recoverable from damn near anything he does with it, technology and 4wd makes that car what it is, a 300bhp, 4 door, fwd car wouldn't work nearly aswell.

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    Senior Member schrickvr6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knoxville
    Ferrari 2004 f1 car proves you wrong straight off im afraid dude, the main reason being not that it ain;t possible to have a very quick fwd just that mid-engined rwd cars are the easier to make quicker while keeping decent handling, 4wd is imo the way forward for driving safely at the limit, ever seen russ swift in an evo? its perfectly recoverable from damn near anything he does with it, technology and 4wd makes that car what it is, a 300bhp, 4 door, fwd car wouldn't work nearly aswell.
    I disagree with most of that,F1 cars have about 850bhp which would be far too much for fwd,300-330bhp is about the limit for a very well sorted fwd

    4wd is safer yes but not faster,take touring cars for instance,they have 300-330bhp and what cars are the fastest?fwd followed by rwd and then 4wd, and from personal experience i know that my fwd car with about 270bhp is as quick if not quicker than a 22b with 300bhp and wipes the floor with an s3 with similar power to mine.but having said that in the wet would be a very different story......

  16. #32
    HEXUS.Metal Knoxville's Avatar
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    the 22b is heavier than your car though, nad as you said in the wet where traction is harder to come by it would be a different story. There is one fwd car i know that can match the power of the f1 car though, it can be done its just highly un-usable on british or indeed most roads

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